nipponbird

The X5 is an excellent vehicle as most of the German SUV's are. Anyone criticizing German cars is in anyway not
for real. Been to the Mercedes factory in Stuttgart last year and I can only say: Respect!!! However where I can humbly say they can give a bit of attention is in the character stakes. There I would say especially the first and second generation RX 350, have just that something when you open the driver's door that can't be explained in words. Always feel like coming home, when I open that door.
Something that I find funny in the RX 350 is that the rear seat backrest doesn't completely fold flat to turn the resultant extra luggage space in a compartment with an exact flat floor. Well, I cannot see how one can flip the rear seat squab over, like in some hatchbacks, to enable the backrest to lie flat. Is their a trick, or is it a just so?

RX330inFL

Agreed, nipponbird. Sometimes comparisons are a bit unfair as each brand has its own personality and design features.

nipponbird

Guess it's different strokes for different folks. Amazing the variety of SUV's you get in South Africa. Often wonder these days what the definition of a real SUV is. During the 90's people would've probably frowned on what is called an SUV today. In that period an SUV was considered to be a hard core bundu basher, with a somewhat luxurious cab. Here a Mitshubishi Pajero was just the thing, even if you were an office johnny in Johannesburg and didn't even know where to enable Low Range. Nowadays it's X5's, Q7's and for the wannabe's a Kia Sportage. Just get the impression nowadays people think an X5 is as macho as a Land Cruiser Prado. As we know they're not, unless you hook up some kit like being offered on certain ML's.
Friend of mine runs an off-road trail and he likes to joke about guys attempting the trail with some of the above, which he has to rescue with his diff-locked two wheel drive Isuzu pick-up truck.
What do you say, what would be a definition of an SUV?

RX330inFL

A true SUV has a truck-based body on frame platform with 4WD or AWD capabilities. Items such as a center locking differential is optional but somewhat necessary for the hard core. The Lexus GX and LX are SUVs.

Anything else is a crossover.

I like to refer to my FWD RX330 as a tall wagon which is its insurance classification.

nipponbird

That would leave us here with about only the Land Rover Defender, Mercedes Gelandewagen and Toyota Land Cruiser 70 series with a few also rans which can be debated. The mentioned trio is favoured here by the the lunatics that go on trips through Africa from Cape to Cairo and what have you, but they never refer to these vehicles as SUV's, that term they reserve for our steeds. But OK I know what you mean. The closest vehicle to the implied definition of an SUV, I drove was an Isuzu Amigo, It really addresses the sport element in the SUV acronym and in a balanced proportion the utility aspect as well.

RX330inFL

There are a few others and if allowed to go back in time a bit, even only few years, here in the States and elsewhere we would have the following to add:

Toyota 4Runner -- still the same
Toyota FJ -- retiring after 2014 MY
Toyota Sequoia
Nissan Pathfinder -- previous generation, now on a car platform with unibody construction
Nissan Xterra
Nissan Armada
Infiniti QX56
Jeep -- too numerous to list all
Ford Expedition/Lincoln Navigator
Chevrolet Tahoe/GMC Yukon/Cadillac Escalade/Chevrolet Suburban

Am sure there are others I missed in addition to the GX/LX and others we have already mentioned.

Here, vehicles such as the BMW X5 see more use on runs to Costco than anything remotely resembling off-road. Maybe a dirt path, but then the owner's would be mad about having to wash the vehicle when done. Even the vaunted G-wagen is mainly used by celebrities in CA to drive around town in. Same with the Hummer H1/H2/H3 when they were in production. Around my area of the world there is a gentleman with two Ford F-650 diesels outfitted with a rear cap like the SUVs of old. Looks like a Ford Expedition on steroids. Is it a truck or an SUV? Looks like an SUV to me by any sense of the definition. Looks like this:

http://f650forsale.com/f650-xuv/

http://f650pickups.com/black-knight-XUV.html

When it comes to 4WD and AWD I feel some cars have better off-road characteristics, other than rock climbing, than some of these so-called SUVs being touted for such use. Have driven a number of vehicles which I would put ahead of my personal FWD RX330 for use off-road and in tough conditions and perhaps even more fun. Such as: Audi, Quattro, Toyota Celica AWD Turbo, Subaru 4WD Wagon...

Getting back to our original comments on the topic, regardless of how a vehicle is tagged (SUV or not) the marketing only makes a difference to those who believe in the lifestyle. For others such as myself, it is how the vehicle will be actually used. As my RX330 only gets a small amount of use off-road on some dirt trails and such it is better to be considered a tall wagon and nothing more.

nipponbird

Problem is with the more bulky 4x4's (that's what a hardcore off-roader with all the necessary hardware is called by the halfwits who traverse Africa for just the sheer hell of it) is that it will just spoil your day when the trails get as narrow as it gets in Central Africa. Here bulk is not your friend. Therefore the Land Cruiser 70 series is by miles the favourite for these trips. That is not to say that some of the vehicles in your list wouldn't make it. On the contrary, just as you think you know it all in Africa, something happens to knock the bottom out of everything, but you can expect some unwanted advice if you should ask some clown in a Land Cruiser (we get them here in single cab, double cab and SUV-style) to haul you out a of mud pit (usually hidden in the vegetation).
By the way, we don't get the front wheel drive RX's here, only AWD. I was under the impression that it is only the Harrier with the four cylinder engine that was so equipped.