Cost effective brake upgrade
12-03-20, 06:58 AM
#1
Pole Position
Thread Starter
Cost effective brake upgrade
After having this vehicle for a yr now w/new pads/rotors, 1st thing I noticed as well as my brother is this car doesn't stop all that great. My 1st thought was that I'd just throw pads/rotors at it. With new brakes, I really wasn't brake upgrades at the time. Yea I did look at a few BBK's, but I really didn't spend that much, but BBK's are out there for rx's thou. I kinda at first thought about the gen3's if they'd fit. Early last month is when I started feeling the TV= Thickness Variation another words to most ppl warped rotors, even they aren't warped. Basically uneven transfer layer deposits from the pads to the rotors. You have abrasive friction & adherent friction which I won't get into. Anyhow, I measured the caliper bracket length from a gen2 & a gen3 calipers & walla they're the same, Grabbed one of each rotors & the height is the same as well, so that told me, to go for it. As you know there are two different rotors for where the gen2's are assembled, so on the gen3's the rotors are the same, but the calipers are different, what I found is the Japanese built use 45mm pistons vs 44mm for the Canada built ones. I went w/ the 44mm calipers thinking less pedal travel. Not noticeable thou. The rotor differences are 12.5'' vs 12.9'' but the gen3 rotors are vented at the outer portion of the rotor hat. Yea, I was surprised to see how heavy the gen3 calipers are not being alloy, but the spindle bearing is the same for both gens thou. Yea additional unsprung weight, but this is worth it thou. Looking at the two pads shows you as well as the slightly bigger rotors. Possibly a tad bit more for the gen3 pads/rotors & you'd be paying for the additional price of the gen3 calipers. Great time to at least swap out the brake hoses for new or go w/ a set of SS ones as well as flush the brake system w/ new dot3. #19B3352/53 for the 45mm calipers & #19B6274/75 for the 44mm calipers. Looking at the two different calipers, I like thee looks of the 45mm caliper body better, but once installed you don't see them. Checking out the rears & what involved there, wow, really surprised, as IDK what the bean counters were thinking at the time. Not really cost effective to go there. The fronts are really worth doing for sure.......Oh & the gen2 are 'bout 250-300lbs lighter then a gen3 to add.
The following 3 users liked this post by Felix:
12-03-20, 07:14 AM
#2
Racer
After having this vehicle for a yr now w/new pads/rotors, 1st thing I noticed as well as my brother is this car doesn't stop all that great. My 1st thought was that I'd just throw pads/rotors at it. With new brakes, I really wasn't brake upgrades at the time. Yea I did look at a few BBK's, but I really didn't spend that much, but BBK's are out there for rx's thou. I kinda at first thought about the gen3's if they'd fit. Early last month is when I started feeling the TV= Thickness Variation another words to most ppl warped rotors, even they aren't warped. Basically uneven transfer layer deposits from the pads to the rotors. You have abrasive friction & adherent friction which I won't get into. Anyhow, I measured the caliper bracket length from a gen2 & a gen3 calipers & walla they're the same, Grabbed one of each rotors & the height is the same as well, so that told me, to go for it. As you know there are two different rotors for where the gen2's are assembled, so on the gen3's the rotors are the same, but the calipers are different, what I found is the Japanese built use 45mm pistons vs 44mm for the Canada built ones. I went w/ the 44mm calipers thinking less pedal travel. Not noticeable thou. The rotor differences are 12.5'' vs 12.9'' but the gen3 rotors are vented at the outer portion of the rotor hat. Yea, I was surprised to see how heavy the gen3 calipers are not being alloy, but the spindle bearing is the same for both gens thou. Yea additional unsprung weight, but this is worth it thou. Looking at the two pads shows you as well as the slightly bigger rotors. Possibly a tad bit more for the gen3 pads/rotors & you'd be paying for the additional price of the gen3 calipers. Great time to at least swap out the brake hoses for new or go w/ a set of SS ones as well as flush the brake system w/ new dot3. #19B3352/53 for the 45mm calipers & #19B6274/75 for the 44mm calipers. Looking at the two different calipers, I like thee looks of the 45mm caliper body better, but once installed you don't see them. Checking out the rears & what involved there, wow, really surprised, as IDK what the bean counters were thinking at the time. Not really cost effective to go there. The fronts are really worth doing for sure.......Oh & the gen2 are 'bout 250-300lbs lighter then a gen3 to add.
12-03-20, 08:13 AM
#3
After having this vehicle for a yr now w/new pads/rotors, 1st thing I noticed as well as my brother is this car doesn't stop all that great. My 1st thought was that I'd just throw pads/rotors at it. With new brakes, I really wasn't brake upgrades at the time. Yea I did look at a few BBK's, but I really didn't spend that much, but BBK's are out there for rx's thou. I kinda at first thought about the gen3's if they'd fit. Early last month is when I started feeling the TV= Thickness Variation another words to most ppl warped rotors, even they aren't warped. Basically uneven transfer layer deposits from the pads to the rotors. You have abrasive friction & adherent friction which I won't get into. Anyhow, I measured the caliper bracket length from a gen2 & a gen3 calipers & walla they're the same, Grabbed one of each rotors & the height is the same as well, so that told me, to go for it. As you know there are two different rotors for where the gen2's are assembled, so on the gen3's the rotors are the same, but the calipers are different, what I found is the Japanese built use 45mm pistons vs 44mm for the Canada built ones. I went w/ the 44mm calipers thinking less pedal travel. Not noticeable thou. The rotor differences are 12.5'' vs 12.9'' but the gen3 rotors are vented at the outer portion of the rotor hat. Yea, I was surprised to see how heavy the gen3 calipers are not being alloy, but the spindle bearing is the same for both gens thou. Yea additional unsprung weight, but this is worth it thou. Looking at the two pads shows you as well as the slightly bigger rotors. Possibly a tad bit more for the gen3 pads/rotors & you'd be paying for the additional price of the gen3 calipers. Great time to at least swap out the brake hoses for new or go w/ a set of SS ones as well as flush the brake system w/ new dot3. #19B3352/53 for the 45mm calipers & #19B6274/75 for the 44mm calipers. Looking at the two different calipers, I like thee looks of the 45mm caliper body better, but once installed you don't see them. Checking out the rears & what involved there, wow, really surprised, as IDK what the bean counters were thinking at the time. Not really cost effective to go there. The fronts are really worth doing for sure.......Oh & the gen2 are 'bout 250-300lbs lighter then a gen3 to add.
12-03-20, 06:02 PM
#4
Pole Position
Thread Starter
No I haven't checked out the LS calipers. If your doing a BBK to begin w/ for sure you aren't going to be rollin w/ the oem wheels. btw K-sport does offer a 3 pot slimline calipers, possibly for ppl running the oem type wheel size. It does cost more then their 8 pot kit..$1662. vs $2470. thru Vivid racing, so that'd be a nobrainer to go w/ the 4 pot kit.......330mm, two piece rotors for both....all the way up to 421mm kit w/ many different size kits between....LOL. The gen3 setup is as far as I'm going, its not like its a rex & your upgrading to sti brakes, or a Scatpack/Superbee & your upgrading to the Hellcat brakes, just a great all around all weather car that hauls 4 ppl comfortable, which my wife <3's. So far I find this setup if well worth doing, yeah at the additional cost of a pr of reman calipers.
12-12-20, 09:51 PM
#5
Pole Position
Thread Starter
After a few hundred miles, I sure can tell you the brakes feel so much more solid, the pedal is more firm feeling, as I'm use to in other vehicles. When we bought this rx a yr ago w/ new Centric pads/rotors, the brakes for the most part felt good & the pedal felt good as well, it just seemed to me & also to my brother that these rx's were a a little heavy for the brakes. So the front brake swap is a great cheap upgrade. My thoughts are possibly you'll go thru rear pads, knowing the gen3 pads are about a 1/4 longer & the rotors are 11.3''vs 12.1''. But then a gen 2 is about 200-250lbs lighter then a gen3.....
12-13-20, 09:50 AM
#7
Pole Position
Thread Starter
Well, you got me to take out the garbage this morning & have a look.....Seems like almost two fingers fit between the wheel & caliper....I'm running TSW accents w/ 20mm offset...So a good possibility they'd fit, just have to pay attention to the stick on weights. Are your 18's oem or aftermarket? What kind of winter do you have to deal with? Nokian offers all weather tires......
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12-13-20, 10:51 AM
#8
2007 RX350 with typical factory 6 spoke 17 inch alloy wheels. I can fit a pencil between the caliper and rim. I must by law here run dedicated winter tires.
Summer wheels are factory 18" alloys off a 2017 Lexus NX.
Unfortunately if the gen 3 can't fit with my 17" winters, it will be a no go for me, I can't justify new wheels and tires.
Summer wheels are factory 18" alloys off a 2017 Lexus NX.
Unfortunately if the gen 3 can't fit with my 17" winters, it will be a no go for me, I can't justify new wheels and tires.
12-13-20, 11:02 AM
#9
Pole Position
Thread Starter
2007 RX350 with typical factory 6 spoke 17 inch alloy wheels. I can fit a pencil between the caliper and rim. I must by law here run dedicated winter tires.
Summer wheels are factory 18" alloys off a 2017 Lexus NX.
Unfortunately if the gen 3 can't fit with my 17" winters, it will be a no go for me, I can't justify new wheels and tires.
Summer wheels are factory 18" alloys off a 2017 Lexus NX.
Unfortunately if the gen 3 can't fit with my 17" winters, it will be a no go for me, I can't justify new wheels and tires.
03-27-21, 07:21 PM
#10
Pole Position
Thread Starter
Update to this gen3 brake upgrade.....I originally used Orielly's 980636rgs rotors w/ their best pads C1324 which are a ceramic. After a bit, I noticed the wheels were getting dusty, but I figured after a few weeks or so they'd be done dusting, but not, so in late January '21, I warrantied the C1324 pads. Yea IK, you don't run new pads on used rotors even thou there wasn't that many miles on them. The dust continued thou, there again possibly the pads needed broke in, bedding the pads to the rotors a few 8-10 50 to 20 mph & then drive down the freeway to cool them off. Your not wanting to stop (pads up against hot rotors such as at a stop light) Park the vehicle & let the brakes cool down. Another words you don't want pad material transfer to the rotors as just a little bit, makes the pads extend & retract the caliper pistons, which is felt thru the pedal. Anyhow I went w/ the Bosch Quietcast rotors #50011479 w/ Wagner's OEX ceramic pads #OEX1324....I ordered these last Thursday morning, & installed them after work, pulled the wheels off & the amount of brake dust on the inside of the wheels, wow. I should have known about those Oreilly ceramic's as a few yrs ago, I threw those on the rear of another vehicle & seems like I was always cleaning those wheels. btw I warrantied those pads/rotors Friday morning. So after about 50+ miles no dust- yea. The rotors have a nice coating to them, so you don't need to brake clean them as there's no oil to keep them from rusting & they come in a nice Bosch plastic bag as well. The OEX pads are different as there are 3 grooves cut in to them width wise. Still braking the pads in, but will say, no brake dust at all........yea. btw, I highly recommend this combo for a low budget
04-08-21, 01:45 PM
#11
Felix, based on your experience, could one simply swap the 2nd Generation calipers for the better 3rd Generation calipers without also swapping rotors?
Last edited by jeremy93ls; 04-08-21 at 02:06 PM.
04-08-21, 07:05 PM
#12
Pole Position
Thread Starter
You;ll need the gen3 rotors as the gen3 pads are wider as well as the length.....12.6'' vs 12.91'' rotor diameter difference.
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jeremy93ls (04-09-21)
04-25-21, 07:49 AM
#14
Pole Position
Thread Starter
I really don't believe they'd be any caliper clearance w/ 17'' wheels.... The gen3 front brake upgrade is really worth it thou.....You'd need to get at least a 18'' wheel assemblies as well as tires. Discount tire offers a few 18'' wheels vs the cost of oem 18's as well as going w/ a 8''-8.5'' width w/ a 20mm offset vs the oem 35mm offset....Yea you could run the oem size 235-55x18's, or better a 255-55 or best a 265-50's.......
04-25-21, 01:33 PM
#15
I'm going to be trying this very soon with the 17" RX330/350 wheels to see how it fits (if it even does). Front brakes are currently in shipping. I have also found that we may be able to run 2008-2013 Highlander brakes on the rear. 310x10mm rotor instead of ~285x10mm rotor. Calipers are of aluminum construction, piston is the same size, however the pads are much larger on the 2008-2013 Highlander and there are some better options for them as well. The 2008-2013 Highlander has the same parking brake as us, as well as hat size and spacing so it'll go right on and won't change the spacing of the rear wheels. The calipers look like they might have slightly shorter spacing so a knuckle swap may be required.
Even better would be the 2006-2013 IS350 rear calipers with a 44mm piston and 310x18mm vented rotors back there. The hat size is the same but the parking brake is different, the hat is 2mm shorter than ours so the wheels may sit 2mm more inward. More issues are that some IS350s have M10 x 1.25 mounting holes for the caliper brackets instead of M12 x 1.25 and the spacing is similar but appears to be slightly shorter by a few mm.
Even better would be the 2006-2013 IS350 rear calipers with a 44mm piston and 310x18mm vented rotors back there. The hat size is the same but the parking brake is different, the hat is 2mm shorter than ours so the wheels may sit 2mm more inward. More issues are that some IS350s have M10 x 1.25 mounting holes for the caliper brackets instead of M12 x 1.25 and the spacing is similar but appears to be slightly shorter by a few mm.