PatsSoxfan

What!! I'm frankly surprised by your post. Who cares about the life of the battery when they last "forever"? Yes, I am exaggerating a little when I say forever, but how many people with hybrids (at least Lexus hybrids) do you know that had to replace their battery? In fact, how many 1st generation Prius hybrids do you know that had their battery go dead? It just does not happen. That should be of no concern. Lexus has their battery under warranty for 10 years for what it's worth.

I bet you a box of Cheerios that the new RX will get at least 30mpg . As long as you don't drive like a "madman", 30 mpg will be easily achieved.

DNC

Pat, You are always drunk on Lexus Cool-Aid. I want to know does anyone know how long these "green" vehicles batteries are suppose to last? I know you think we shouldn't ask question as you have order a car and don't even know what the price will be. Now go drink your Cool-Aid.

DNC

While we are on the subject, I wonder what replacement cost is on one of these batteries if for some reason it was damaged?

PatsSoxfan

Yes I am "drunk" on Lexus and why shouldn't I be based on the experiences my wife and I have had since out first Lexus back in December 2003? Lexus has the best value and extremely reliable vehicles with state of the art technology.

I was a little abrasive in my response to you, but I did answer your question. The fact is that these batteries last many years. How many is many? No one really knows since even the first generation Prius batteries (have been around for 9-10 years I think) and are still going strong. Plus, if the battery with Lexus is under warranty for 10 years, who cares? That right there should ease anybody's concern about the life of the battery.

And, on your final jab about me ordering the RX450h without knowing the price, what is the big deal with that? Is it going to make me feel better if I know the exact price? Hell no! I obviously know the ball park price (MSRP in the low to mid $50sK based on all the options I ordered). Besides, I know that I will get a sizable discount as promised by the dealer.

I get a little irritated by a few of you here trying so hard to either discredit Lexus or just intentionally taking the opposite view no matter what any poster has to say. It's like spoiled little children that constantly complain.

By the way, do we have a bet on the gas mileage?

tfischer

The batteries are a big unknown operating cost. Amortized, it's like a gas tax. At some time during most terms of ownership, maybe at 4 or 5 years, the batteries will become less effective and will need to be replaced. They are very expensive, although I understand that exact replacement costs are hard to come by because prices change all the time and the cars are all too new to have that need yet.

I've seen estimates that range from 3 or 4,000 dollars and up. Add that to the price of gas and divide by the miles you drove.

As far as I know from casual reading, the life span and the replacement costs of the batteries is generally not known, but this is one of the fun things of being an early adapter.

The battery warranty is, I suspect, pro-rated like a tire warranty or a conventional battery warranty, so failure in year 7 might get you a 30% discount on the replacement.

Finally, I don't see any this discussion as disparaging to Lexus or Toyota; Lexus is given great credit for being one of the leaders in the hybrid auto technology. Also, this is a common discussion in the automotive world, and even the professional auto trade writers are asking the same questions as posed here and seem to agree that life span and replacement costs are not really known at this time; however, there is also agreement that an owner should care about the costs to maintain the vehicle for the long as well as the short run. I think most owners would care, since the bill could be substantial on a car that's 7 or 9 or 11 years old (and we are keeping our cars a lot longer than 3 years nowadays).
It's hard being out there on the front lines.

psu77

Actually the warranty is 8 years and 100,000 miles and 10 years and 150,000 miles for states under the Calif emissions standards. Also the warranty is not pro-rated, the battery is replaced for free any time during the applicable warranty period.

DNC

Pat, Come on! We are talking about a car, not a cult.
I asking some of these questions because we are entering into a new area much like we did in the late 1980's when we were wondering how long airbags would last and how much replacement cost would be.
No, I will not bet with you; I have this feeling you are not of the legal age to entrer into such a contract. Get one of your parent's to email me. I will bet with them.
Stopped getting all worked up about this. You are taking it way too serious. Listen to different opinion and experiences to learn.

Go Lexus!!!

tfischer

I don't think anybody here wants to bet with anyone who mistakes a possessive for a simple plural.

PatsSoxfan

As psu77 states below, Lexus does not pro rate the battery. I was not sure about the 10 years, but as it turns out it is 8 years or 100,000 miles. If the battery fails in that span, Lexus will REPLACE it at no cost to the owner. When we purchased the RX400h back in the spring of 2004, it was made very clear to us that we don't have to worry about the battery. Thus, my point of "who cares" if the battery fails.

But I also stated that we do have some history here...The FIRST GENERATION PRIUS. I believe the Prius was first introduced in 2000 or 2001. I have not heard or read about one failed battery. First generation Prius owners are getting the same gas mileage now as they did when the car was new. The bottom line to me is that this concern about the battery failing is a non issue. It was certainly an issue when the Prius first made an appearance but not now. It has been proven beyond the shadow of a doubt that it will last for many years.

DNC

Pat, You are missing the point. I am only asking how long will the battery last? No one is kicking Lexus by asking the question.
There will also be the question of cost of battery replacement due to damage. Back in the early 1990's I remember a friend's car being totaled by the insurance company due to the cost of airbag replacement when the car would not have been totaled without that additional cost. It leaves me with the question will some of the hybrids be retired early from service by insurance companies based on damage claims that would involve battery replacement? I remember reading an article in one of the major automobile magazines some years back where during an interviewing an R&D fellow with one of the car companies suggested the price of replacing a hybrid's battery at that point would cost around $10,000. Surely like all technology the price has decreased as time passes.

PatsSoxfan

First of all, oh how I wish I was not of legal age yet and oh how I wish my parents were still alive. I am probably old enough to at least be your father if not your grandfather. I absolutely do listen and appreciate other opinions. but you are the one that posed what I thought was a question that has already been answered the past several years. I thought it was a known fact that one does not have to worry about the battery on a Toyota or Lexus hybrid vehicle since there have been no failures. It sounded to me like you were trying to place doubt on would be Lexus hybrid buyers. And, I answered your question that Lexus will replace the battery if it fails within 10 years (actually it's 8 years and 100,000 miles) at no cost to the owner.

Then, you topped it off by by stating that "these things will never get 30 mpg" even though it has been shown to average about 30 (city and highway) on the tests by Edmunds who by the way is likely biased against Lexus going on past experience as "encore888" pointed out.

DNC

No, no, I'm not kicking Lexus on this issue. There are plenty of issues to kick Lexus on, but this isn't one. "IF" I was going to buy a hybrid it would likely be a Lexus. I just wonder what these cars will be like years down the road when they are beyond the warranty. I wounder if we will see these replacement batteries in AutoZone or Walmart 15 years from now?
The new hybrid RX will not average 30 mpg, just not going to happen. If you are old enough to be my grandfather you need to ask yourself, "Should I really be driving?"

The G Man

I think some of you are missing the point. These batteries will not fail in 8 years or 100000 miles, they just become weaker. They will still work but you will see your gas mileage go lower and lower as the batteries aged. Thats the problem with 10 year old hybrids, any smart buyer will know that the battery pack will need to be replace soon, they cost about $4000 to $5000 to replace. That replacement cost will be deducted from the price of the car, making the Hybrid worth less than a conventional gas engine in the used car market.

PatsSoxfan

Do you know for a fact that the gas mileage decreases as the battery ages? Do you have any proof of that? I have never read anything that supports this view. And what about the people that should give the most accurate answer to this?...first generation Prius owners. They are not stating that they now get lower gas mileage than when the car was new. Obviously, eventually everything and everyone dies. So, one of these years we will be hearing that hybrid batteries from many years ago are finally dying.

The G Man

As the batteries gets weak, the hybrid system will run more and more on the gas engine, that mean lower and lower gas mileage and lost of power. Its the same as any other rechargable device you have in the house, the older the battery, the less charge it will hold.