NAV -- Not so bad after all.
12-29-09, 10:20 PM
#16
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I will never buy a car without a OEM nav unit.
reasons to buy OEM Nav:
"Better" looking dash (IMO)
Weird coin holder where the remote touch unit would be
ugly (IMO) after market unit propped up somewhere on the windshield or dash
having to stow the after market unit so it doesnt get stolen
question: does the nav tell you about nearby traffic if you are not under guidance but on the same freeway/area?
reasons to buy OEM Nav:
"Better" looking dash (IMO)
Weird coin holder where the remote touch unit would be
ugly (IMO) after market unit propped up somewhere on the windshield or dash
having to stow the after market unit so it doesnt get stolen
question: does the nav tell you about nearby traffic if you are not under guidance but on the same freeway/area?
12-30-09, 06:36 AM
#17
Lexus Test Driver
12-30-09, 08:11 AM
#18
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I wonder why Garmin doesn't go into a licensing agreement with an automaker to do the GPS for their vehicles. Just like Mark Levinson or Bose does for car audio. They make great GPSs, and I think it would be a selling point for the car.
12-30-09, 09:00 AM
#19
I can see XM Navi still needs lots of improvement...
I had the problems with my Navi/Real-Time-traffic-update. I do a lot of city driving plus the highway driving, but in where I'm or in the situation I have had, this Navi didn't provide the things I was looking for. In last summer, I found out Google Map or Yahoo Map traffic flow did the better updates; at the meantime, XM said it's no traffic, the roads were actually jammed or in traffic. Sometimes XM showed it's crowded, but there wasn't too much traffic on roads. This made you wonder wether or not the XM Navi could be trusted. (Maybe it's because we have lots of heavily trafficked highway/roads in the city. And, XM Navi couldn't really do the real-time updates based on the data they received.)
Second, XM Navi doesn't display all the major highways information. This is bad. I'd say XM Navi only covers about 40-60% of highways here.
I had the problems with my Navi/Real-Time-traffic-update. I do a lot of city driving plus the highway driving, but in where I'm or in the situation I have had, this Navi didn't provide the things I was looking for. In last summer, I found out Google Map or Yahoo Map traffic flow did the better updates; at the meantime, XM said it's no traffic, the roads were actually jammed or in traffic. Sometimes XM showed it's crowded, but there wasn't too much traffic on roads. This made you wonder wether or not the XM Navi could be trusted. (Maybe it's because we have lots of heavily trafficked highway/roads in the city. And, XM Navi couldn't really do the real-time updates based on the data they received.)
Second, XM Navi doesn't display all the major highways information. This is bad. I'd say XM Navi only covers about 40-60% of highways here.
Other than that, I agree, the Nav system in the car is actually fairly good. With a couple tweaks to the speeds, the routing is fairly good too. Not perfect, but pretty good.
12-30-09, 10:22 AM
#20
Lexus Test Driver
12-30-09, 09:50 PM
#21
I will never buy a car without a OEM nav unit.
reasons to buy OEM Nav:
"Better" looking dash (IMO)
Weird coin holder where the remote touch unit would be
ugly (IMO) after market unit propped up somewhere on the windshield or dash
having to stow the after market unit so it doesnt get stolen
question: does the nav tell you about nearby traffic if you are not under guidance but on the same freeway/area?
reasons to buy OEM Nav:
"Better" looking dash (IMO)
Weird coin holder where the remote touch unit would be
ugly (IMO) after market unit propped up somewhere on the windshield or dash
having to stow the after market unit so it doesnt get stolen
question: does the nav tell you about nearby traffic if you are not under guidance but on the same freeway/area?
As long as there are enough people like you, dealers will continue to rip people off just because they can.
Buyers deserve better than a sub-standard nav system at hugely inflated prices. Navigation system technology keeps getting better every day, and in my opinion makes no sense to get stuck with a system that will be obsolete after a few years of use.
Integrated nav systems in cars should be redesigned to be more like the iPod integration option in audio systems. The car should just provide the display and interface to the system, but the navigation system itself should be a plug-in.
Also, for people that keep their cars for a long time, the resale value argument doesn't make any difference. Rather go invest the 3 grand and not have the cash tied up in a clunky nav. system.
12-30-09, 10:27 PM
#22
Bascially, it only tells you the traffic info on selective "highway/freeway/parkway". Those highways monitored by XM Navi Traffic system will have the traffic info (Green/Yellow/Red/Alerts) all the time.
12-30-09, 10:34 PM
#23
I bet car dealers love to deal with you, since they are making out like bandits with these outrageous Nav option markups. I'm sure they appreciate it.
As long as there are enough people like you, dealers will continue to rip people off just because they can.
Buyers deserve better than a sub-standard nav system at hugely inflated prices. Navigation system technology keeps getting better every day, and in my opinion makes no sense to get stuck with a system that will be obsolete after a few years of use.
Integrated nav systems in cars should be redesigned to be more like the iPod integration option in audio systems. The car should just provide the display and interface to the system, but the navigation system itself should be a plug-in.
Also, for people that keep their cars for a long time, the resale value argument doesn't make any difference. Rather go invest the 3 grand and not have the cash tied up in a clunky nav. system.
As long as there are enough people like you, dealers will continue to rip people off just because they can.
Buyers deserve better than a sub-standard nav system at hugely inflated prices. Navigation system technology keeps getting better every day, and in my opinion makes no sense to get stuck with a system that will be obsolete after a few years of use.
Integrated nav systems in cars should be redesigned to be more like the iPod integration option in audio systems. The car should just provide the display and interface to the system, but the navigation system itself should be a plug-in.
Also, for people that keep their cars for a long time, the resale value argument doesn't make any difference. Rather go invest the 3 grand and not have the cash tied up in a clunky nav. system.
Well, Apple does talk about some innovation on cars, let's see...
If Navi vendors can come out the good Navi with the larger screen and well-integrated with speakers/car systems, I will buy it.
Otherwise, I'll always choose the OEM Navi.
12-30-09, 10:36 PM
#24
I agree with RXSF, I won't buy any high end cars without a built-in NAV system.
For a Lexus, I will expect all the bells and whistles. If not available, why not just get a Toyota.
For a Lexus, I will expect all the bells and whistles. If not available, why not just get a Toyota.
12-30-09, 10:46 PM
#25
I don't know where the "three grand" cost came from...
List on nav for the RX450h is $2465 if I remember correctly; once you remove the rear camera that's included in that option, nav feature alone is $2115. With the 8.8% discount I received on the vehicle, that brings it down to approx $1930.
In selling our RX330 with nav after 6+ years and 80k miles, I believe we got at least $1000 more than a similar non-nav vehicle - not to mention a quick sale with minimal effort. I strongly believe that second-time-around buyers expect luxury features in a used Lexus - hell, I had people asking about integrated cell phones in the two LS models I sold in the past - and those were analog cell phones that were so obsolete by that time they couldn't qualify as paperweights.
Perhaps your definition of long-term ownership is different than mine - but that six-year plus period is the longest we've kept any daily driver.
If the same holds true 6 years from now when we sell the 450h, that means my actual outlay will have been about $930 spread over 6 years or $155 per year. I know how to calculate net present value and lost opportunity cost of funds - but I'm not going to go to that extreme here.
The real key is that we actually used the nav in the RX330 quite successfully for those 6 years, whether or not Garman or TomTom or anybody else offered a portable nav with a better feature set.
But you're probably right in that dealer sales people light up the Auerbach victory cigar after signing deals that sucker some of us into needless, poorly-implemented items that offer little in return....just like those vendors that celebrate massive profits after they plaster a new ride with heavy saran wrap, eh?
Jeff
List on nav for the RX450h is $2465 if I remember correctly; once you remove the rear camera that's included in that option, nav feature alone is $2115. With the 8.8% discount I received on the vehicle, that brings it down to approx $1930.
In selling our RX330 with nav after 6+ years and 80k miles, I believe we got at least $1000 more than a similar non-nav vehicle - not to mention a quick sale with minimal effort. I strongly believe that second-time-around buyers expect luxury features in a used Lexus - hell, I had people asking about integrated cell phones in the two LS models I sold in the past - and those were analog cell phones that were so obsolete by that time they couldn't qualify as paperweights.
Perhaps your definition of long-term ownership is different than mine - but that six-year plus period is the longest we've kept any daily driver.
If the same holds true 6 years from now when we sell the 450h, that means my actual outlay will have been about $930 spread over 6 years or $155 per year. I know how to calculate net present value and lost opportunity cost of funds - but I'm not going to go to that extreme here.
The real key is that we actually used the nav in the RX330 quite successfully for those 6 years, whether or not Garman or TomTom or anybody else offered a portable nav with a better feature set.
But you're probably right in that dealer sales people light up the Auerbach victory cigar after signing deals that sucker some of us into needless, poorly-implemented items that offer little in return....just like those vendors that celebrate massive profits after they plaster a new ride with heavy saran wrap, eh?
Jeff
12-30-09, 11:27 PM
#26
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I bet car dealers love to deal with you, since they are making out like bandits with these outrageous Nav option markups. I'm sure they appreciate it.
As long as there are enough people like you, dealers will continue to rip people off just because they can.
Buyers deserve better than a sub-standard nav system at hugely inflated prices. Navigation system technology keeps getting better every day, and in my opinion makes no sense to get stuck with a system that will be obsolete after a few years of use.
Integrated nav systems in cars should be redesigned to be more like the iPod integration option in audio systems. The car should just provide the display and interface to the system, but the navigation system itself should be a plug-in.
Also, for people that keep their cars for a long time, the resale value argument doesn't make any difference. Rather go invest the 3 grand and not have the cash tied up in a clunky nav. system.
As long as there are enough people like you, dealers will continue to rip people off just because they can.
Buyers deserve better than a sub-standard nav system at hugely inflated prices. Navigation system technology keeps getting better every day, and in my opinion makes no sense to get stuck with a system that will be obsolete after a few years of use.
Integrated nav systems in cars should be redesigned to be more like the iPod integration option in audio systems. The car should just provide the display and interface to the system, but the navigation system itself should be a plug-in.
Also, for people that keep their cars for a long time, the resale value argument doesn't make any difference. Rather go invest the 3 grand and not have the cash tied up in a clunky nav. system.
May I know what you meant "nearby traffic"?
12-31-09, 07:15 AM
#27
Moderator
My first NAV was in my SC, which I have been driving since April of '01. At the time, it was an option priced at about $2,000.00 (later made standard eqpt on the SC). At the time I thought it was an expensive toy that Lexus was making me buy because virtually all of the SCs had this "option" installed.
I was wrong. I love the the NAV and have been using it, with updated data, ever since, and subsequently insisted that my RX have a NAV system also. I would not be without it.
From what I understand, it does increase the re-sale value, as many buyers of used cars are looking for NAV-equipped cars; also, the price as an option continues to be about $2,000.00, although the screens are bigger, have higher resolution and the systems have many more options than my early SC unit.
I have used portable units and don't like them at all, although they get the job done, but are generally smaller and harder to use; they cost much less, of course, which is a big factor.
All in all, in a luxury car of any class, built-in NAV is a terrific addition, and I certainly would not want one without it.
Finally, I don't buy the obsolescence argument; my early unit from '01, while lacking some features of newer systems, continues to perform well with data that is up to date. I look forward to getting a newer NAV someday, but don't really miss having one now (part of which is due to the fact that the car itself is, like Mary Poppins, practically perfect in every way).
I was wrong. I love the the NAV and have been using it, with updated data, ever since, and subsequently insisted that my RX have a NAV system also. I would not be without it.
From what I understand, it does increase the re-sale value, as many buyers of used cars are looking for NAV-equipped cars; also, the price as an option continues to be about $2,000.00, although the screens are bigger, have higher resolution and the systems have many more options than my early SC unit.
I have used portable units and don't like them at all, although they get the job done, but are generally smaller and harder to use; they cost much less, of course, which is a big factor.
All in all, in a luxury car of any class, built-in NAV is a terrific addition, and I certainly would not want one without it.
Finally, I don't buy the obsolescence argument; my early unit from '01, while lacking some features of newer systems, continues to perform well with data that is up to date. I look forward to getting a newer NAV someday, but don't really miss having one now (part of which is due to the fact that the car itself is, like Mary Poppins, practically perfect in every way).
Last edited by tfischer; 12-31-09 at 07:19 AM. Reason: Removed all references to full body scans of my private parts.
12-31-09, 07:30 AM
#28
Lexus Test Driver
The potable unit can be move from car to car obviously, it has a pedestrian mode, it’s cheaper in price and the operating system is more user friendly. I would say I am glad I have both, I still find myself using the potable navi on some occasions.
12-31-09, 07:42 AM
#29
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We fly a lot, and it's nice to tuck the nuvi into my briefcase and not have to rent one on the other side.
Eventually all cars will have NAV standard, like radios.
Anyway, I'm glad I hung in there and made peace with the Lexus NAV.
Eventually all cars will have NAV standard, like radios.
Anyway, I'm glad I hung in there and made peace with the Lexus NAV.
12-31-09, 06:35 PM
#30
... ... I was watching a CNET car review on the new Cadillac STS and they mentioned how if you were driving on a freeway, even when you are not under guidance, it will actually alert you saying that there is traffic "nearby" on the road you are currently on. Just wondering if the Lexus Navs did that, but as you say, you do get those icons, but in this case, you would have to scroll ahead on the map to see them