Need Advice with 2010 RX350 Problem
06-06-10, 04:03 PM
#77
i haven't posted in a while, i basically didn't want to. but here's what i will say
i have obsidian gs350. i had obsidian ls460l. would i own another black lexus? i have no problem. is it hard to maintain, yes. is it impossible to maintain? no
i talked to OP in private. i showed him pictures and if i understand correctly, his vehicle condition is somewhat like a vehicle i have worked on before. so i assume that is true. if that's the case, and knowing how lexus vehicles pass through inspections (including paint), i don't believe it's a factory problem.
the problem is easily caused by improper wash and drying process, which i have seen far far far too often. imho, i think it's more of a dealership problem. fact is, dealerships are independently own, lexus corp doesn't have full control over them. they can try to work out the issue and recommend dealerships to work with customers, but that's about it.
how dealerships want to handle the issue, that's another different story. i can't comment on this particular dealership though.
and if we go back and talk about the paint itself on OP's car (talk about help), if the condition is something like the car i have worked with, then it's just a matter of good work and patience to get it right. i spent 10 hours on the car and the pictures show the results.
as i have said in the very very beginning. a good detailer is the key. and regarding other comments, if you think lexus paint is inferior, that's mostly because you don't know how to treat them correctly. you think mb and bmw paint is hard and that's good? try to take out the orange peel effect
i have obsidian gs350. i had obsidian ls460l. would i own another black lexus? i have no problem. is it hard to maintain, yes. is it impossible to maintain? no
i talked to OP in private. i showed him pictures and if i understand correctly, his vehicle condition is somewhat like a vehicle i have worked on before. so i assume that is true. if that's the case, and knowing how lexus vehicles pass through inspections (including paint), i don't believe it's a factory problem.
the problem is easily caused by improper wash and drying process, which i have seen far far far too often. imho, i think it's more of a dealership problem. fact is, dealerships are independently own, lexus corp doesn't have full control over them. they can try to work out the issue and recommend dealerships to work with customers, but that's about it.
how dealerships want to handle the issue, that's another different story. i can't comment on this particular dealership though.
and if we go back and talk about the paint itself on OP's car (talk about help), if the condition is something like the car i have worked with, then it's just a matter of good work and patience to get it right. i spent 10 hours on the car and the pictures show the results.
as i have said in the very very beginning. a good detailer is the key. and regarding other comments, if you think lexus paint is inferior, that's mostly because you don't know how to treat them correctly. you think mb and bmw paint is hard and that's good? try to take out the orange peel effect
06-06-10, 04:17 PM
#78
Leo,
as we have discussed before, there is no way of proving that it was caused at the factory, and no way of proving that the owner did not subject the car to abuse. We are not questioning the integrity of the OP, but once you take it off the lot, it is yours. A lawyer would probably see this and advise you against it. Plus you would be out attorney fees.
as we have discussed before, there is no way of proving that it was caused at the factory, and no way of proving that the owner did not subject the car to abuse. We are not questioning the integrity of the OP, but once you take it off the lot, it is yours. A lawyer would probably see this and advise you against it. Plus you would be out attorney fees.
06-06-10, 04:30 PM
#79
If Lexus is successful in this attempt to address their soft paint finish I think it will be the final piece in the puzzle. I just don't understand why it has taken them twenty years to admit it. I have been told if it is successful they will quickly spread it to the other models.
06-06-10, 04:58 PM
#80
<<<i never followed, did they not admit that their paint has been soft on lexus after around 2000? it's very commonly known fact among detailers. but on the other hand, i think it's a compromise / trade off. paint is soft, but it's much easier to work with especially since their paint is usually relatively thick. on the other hand a lot of european cars, their paint is hard, but a lot of imperfections and hard to correct. want really bad? early 200s acura... soft and thin, now that was bad>>>
Where I think Lexus paint finish does have an advantage is no orange peal and no fisheye effects. The reflection is sharp and even reflects true colors of objects. Every Mercedes I have looked at on the showroom floor the past 3 years has orange peal; from the C Class to the S Class.
Getting specific here, I have been told by some Lexus people it's actually their top coat that is soft, not so much a paint issue. Having seen body work only on my 04 and 07 RX, I found the paint to be very thin.
Like I mentioned in my pervious post, once that is fixed by Lexus it will be the last piece of the puzzle. When this is solved my 06 LS Ultra will have to go.
Where I think Lexus paint finish does have an advantage is no orange peal and no fisheye effects. The reflection is sharp and even reflects true colors of objects. Every Mercedes I have looked at on the showroom floor the past 3 years has orange peal; from the C Class to the S Class.
Getting specific here, I have been told by some Lexus people it's actually their top coat that is soft, not so much a paint issue. Having seen body work only on my 04 and 07 RX, I found the paint to be very thin.
Like I mentioned in my pervious post, once that is fixed by Lexus it will be the last piece of the puzzle. When this is solved my 06 LS Ultra will have to go.
06-06-10, 05:47 PM
#81
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Folks, please understand, I was very receptive to the car being buffed the first go around. When I looked at the scratches/swirls in the sun light I immediately knew what had happened. It was clear as day that whoever took our RX in the back the previous evening to have it cleaned up (and most likely in a hurry) made a very grave mistake by not properly rinsing the dust and dirt off it and instead probably wet it down and then proceeded to wash it with a mitt. I would never imagine that at a Lexus dealership they could be so careless...lesson learned. The exact same scratches/swirls that are on the paint are on the piano plastic B and C pillars confirms my theory. My initial impression was well this really sucks, but I am sure it can be buffed out. It wasn't til I got it back from the detailer and the scratches/swirls were not removed post buffing that I started to get upset. rominl did PM me about the work he has done, but what good does that do me up here? The vehicle was then looked at by two other Body/Detail shops, one who would not touch it with a 10 ft buffer but instead applied a BS glaze, and the other body shop wanted to disassemble the car to buff it out to the tune of almost $2,000. Now keep in mind, all three body shops/Detail shops that looked at the vehicle was staged by Kendall Lexus of Alaska.....not me. And in the end I am told that the scratches/swirls are normal and that the "SPIDER" marks (thats what they are now calling the scratches/swirls) are normal in the paint of dark vehicles and that they are under the clear coat......WTF??? I would gladly take this vehicle to a detail shop that I have confidence in to do what needs to be done and would even pay it out of my own dam pocket if thats what it takes to make my wife happy with her new Lexus. However all my resources locally have been used up. Someone suggested I take it to a guy in Palmer Alaska (14 hr round trip drive + time for work to be done) to have him buff it out, well thats also not something feasible right now. We are looking at moving out of state in the coming months and one of the places we may be moving to is San Antonio, TX. I can only imagine that in a city of that size there will be a guy or gal with the skills that rominl has, that can rectify this headache for me. But for now......my dealership, Kendall Lexus of Alaska, and Lexus Corp has turned their backs to us, and thats what really has my azz chapped.
Please folks....put yourself in my shoes and tell me how you'd feel right now, getting ready to make my second payment on this vehicle tomorrow?
Please folks....put yourself in my shoes and tell me how you'd feel right now, getting ready to make my second payment on this vehicle tomorrow?
Last edited by codyrx; 06-06-10 at 06:05 PM.
06-06-10, 06:19 PM
#82
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I have no further comments except that the dealership (as well as most if not all dealerships) have a drive through machine wash and is not done by hand. I request no car washes when I am at the dealership for an oil change
06-06-10, 09:07 PM
#83
The Meguiars Ultimate Compound will removed the marks you mention, but having a black Lexus is going to bring with it more work. I have never had a black finish; Audi, BMW, Mercedes, Volvo, or domestic be as difficult to maintain. Get a white one and you will never see the marks. If you can live with that color it will make for a much easier life.
Your dealer could get you out of your present RX and into another one without it coasting them a dime.
Your dealer could get you out of your present RX and into another one without it coasting them a dime.
06-06-10, 09:13 PM
#84
I agree, never let a dealership touch it if you can do it yourself. You will get back just what we have been talking about in this thread. And spend some time on a detail forum and it will make your life a lot easier. It has taken me over twenty years to learn what anyone can learn in one night on a good detail forum.
06-06-10, 09:14 PM
#85
Cody at this point I'd contact an attorney for legal advise. I think it's beyond suggestions/help on this forum. I sincerely wish you good luck.
06-06-10, 09:21 PM
#86
Yes, we all wish you luck. I know of several cases where Lexus dealerships have stepped up to the bar and did the right thing by putting the customer in a different car at no cost to the customer, but I have discovered it comes down to the person who answers the phone when you call and what kind of day they are having.
Again, good luck and keep us posted as to what happens.
Again, good luck and keep us posted as to what happens.
06-06-10, 09:41 PM
#87
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Never in my wildest imagination would I have thought that this is how I would be treated after buying a new Lexus and having the problems I have had. Its mind boggling!
06-06-10, 09:45 PM
#88
codyrx, i definitely hope you didn't get me the wrong way. i wasn't trying to show off my work at all, that's not my intention. on the other hand i was trying to think from a "fix" point of view and that it's doable. i do feel bad for you and i would be frustrated too without trustworthy local resources. and obviously the dealership has been less than helpful or responsible in that sense.
but if you ask me what i'd do. well personally if i can't find good resources to get the work done, i would probably read up detailing forums like autopia.org and trust myself in fixing the problem. yes it sounds silly in some sense, but at least i know it's done right. going after the dealership by going with legal actions, i don't know, i just think it's a much bigger hassle for god knows how much return.
but that's just me and all suggestions i can offer
but if you ask me what i'd do. well personally if i can't find good resources to get the work done, i would probably read up detailing forums like autopia.org and trust myself in fixing the problem. yes it sounds silly in some sense, but at least i know it's done right. going after the dealership by going with legal actions, i don't know, i just think it's a much bigger hassle for god knows how much return.
but that's just me and all suggestions i can offer
06-06-10, 09:57 PM
#89
I was seriously pissed off enough last week to consider the legal route, but realistically by the time I hire an attorney and attempt to fight their lawyers, it would almost be easier to trade it in on something else and take the same financial loss that legal fees would amount to. One definately seems easier to do than the other. I have made it as far as the regional rep, and although she was kind and professional, she is the one that basically told me theres nothing Lexus Corp can do. I left a message for the General Manager a week and a half ago and he did not even call me back. Then someone set up the poor Service Manager to call me and in the most feabile attempt ever he literally called me simply to try to explain to me (once again) that all dark colored cars have these infamous "Spider looking" scratches in the paint. Once I politely stopped him and told him not to even continue explaining to me that all dark colored vehicles are scratched when new, as that is pretty much complete BS, he literally gave up and said someone else would be contacting me. No one has called me since, including the General Manager whom I left a message for, talk about horrible customer service!
Never in my wildest imagination would I have thought that this is how I would be treated after buying a new Lexus and having the problems I have had. Its mind boggling!
Never in my wildest imagination would I have thought that this is how I would be treated after buying a new Lexus and having the problems I have had. Its mind boggling!
06-07-10, 04:05 AM
#90
I was seriously pissed off enough last week to consider the legal route, but realistically by the time I hire an attorney and attempt to fight their lawyers, it would almost be easier to trade it in on something else and take the same financial loss that legal fees would amount to. One definately seems easier to do than the other. I have made it as far as the regional rep, and although she was kind and professional, she is the one that basically told me theres nothing Lexus Corp can do. I left a message for the General Manager a week and a half ago and he did not even call me back. Then someone set up the poor Service Manager to call me and in the most feabile attempt ever he literally called me simply to try to explain to me (once again) that all dark colored cars have these infamous "Spider looking" scratches in the paint. Once I politely stopped him and told him not to even continue explaining to me that all dark colored vehicles are scratched when new, as that is pretty much complete BS, he literally gave up and said someone else would be contacting me. No one has called me since, including the General Manager whom I left a message for, talk about horrible customer service!
Never in my wildest imagination would I have thought that this is how I would be treated after buying a new Lexus and having the problems I have had. Its mind boggling!
Never in my wildest imagination would I have thought that this is how I would be treated after buying a new Lexus and having the problems I have had. Its mind boggling!
Dealer prep was the problem but hard to prove after taking delivery.
One drying wipe with a non 100% cotton towel,especially if there's some dirt/grit left on the finish somewhere and dragged across the paint would cause your problems.Black is a tough color to maintain.One mistake and you have paint swirl and scratch problems.
I do find something puzzling but I'm not a bodyshop guy.
Why would a shop want to disassemble the vehicle?
I would keep calling Lexus and demand to talk to higher ups rather than the customer service people.
Have you owned other Toyota/Lexus products?Tell them,that may help.