Nav upgrade
12-02-12, 09:36 AM
#16
Lexus Champion
For 99% of owners it is a worthless upgrade because whoever manages the database is terribly lax in getting updates into the system. My residental street has been in existence for over 10 years and we live within the city limits, but it doesn't show up on the latest Lexus systems. Why? We also have an Exxon service station that went out of business in about 2005 yet it still shows up on the current database. Why? Save your money, you won't notice the difference in almost all circumstances.
12-03-12, 08:47 PM
#17
Lead Lap
Thread Starter
And this is the real crime. On the older CD-ROM based Nav systems you could buy an updated disc for $150 or so and install it yourself. Now they have to connect to the corporate main frame 'blah, blah, blah'. As you say, they have learned this scam drives business to the dealer and allows them to make $100 or so on installation charges.
For 99% of owners it is a worthless upgrade because whoever manages the database is terribly lax in getting updates into the system. My residental street has been in existence for over 10 years and we live within the city limits, but it doesn't show up on the latest Lexus systems. Why? We also have an Exxon service station that went out of business in about 2005 yet it still shows up on the current database. Why? Save your money, you won't notice the difference in almost all circumstances.
For 99% of owners it is a worthless upgrade because whoever manages the database is terribly lax in getting updates into the system. My residental street has been in existence for over 10 years and we live within the city limits, but it doesn't show up on the latest Lexus systems. Why? We also have an Exxon service station that went out of business in about 2005 yet it still shows up on the current database. Why? Save your money, you won't notice the difference in almost all circumstances.
I'm sure it will help me in my upcoming drive from northern Ohio to Key West.
12-04-12, 07:36 AM
#18
This makes me crazy! A NAV upgrade can't cost Lexus more than $10 or $20, and likely a lot less. I have no issues with them making a profit, but this is simply gouging, and people pay it because "it's a Lexus"! Some people are happy when they only pay $200 after "discounts"!
Toyota pays a licence fee to whoever makes the maps (imagine the buying leverage the world's 1st or 2nd largest car mfg has!), stick it on a server somewhere. Dealers simply download the new maps when they want to do an upgrade. Toyota defers that license fee across all the cars they sell with Nav! They have no development costs for the maps, and they have no delivery costs. I wonder what Toyota charges for their map upgrades. It has to be the same map and basic hardware. I wonder if you could use one of theirs.
As a point of reference, look what Garmin or Tom Tom charges for map upgrades. I once paid $60 for a LIFETIME map upgrade from Garmin. I know they're cheaper for the hardware, but the normal justifications for paying far, FAR more for an integrated NAV system simply don't apply to upgrading the maps. On line nav apps don't charge ANYTHING, and they ALWAYS have the most current maps!
I may be wrong here, but I don't think so. I would welcome correction, but I can see no justification for what I consider a blatant rip off.
Toyota pays a licence fee to whoever makes the maps (imagine the buying leverage the world's 1st or 2nd largest car mfg has!), stick it on a server somewhere. Dealers simply download the new maps when they want to do an upgrade. Toyota defers that license fee across all the cars they sell with Nav! They have no development costs for the maps, and they have no delivery costs. I wonder what Toyota charges for their map upgrades. It has to be the same map and basic hardware. I wonder if you could use one of theirs.
As a point of reference, look what Garmin or Tom Tom charges for map upgrades. I once paid $60 for a LIFETIME map upgrade from Garmin. I know they're cheaper for the hardware, but the normal justifications for paying far, FAR more for an integrated NAV system simply don't apply to upgrading the maps. On line nav apps don't charge ANYTHING, and they ALWAYS have the most current maps!
I may be wrong here, but I don't think so. I would welcome correction, but I can see no justification for what I consider a blatant rip off.
Last edited by User 41924; 12-04-12 at 08:53 AM.
12-04-12, 10:56 AM
#20
Why don't you even bother justify the purchase? You can't.
This makes me crazy! A NAV upgrade can't cost Lexus more than $10 or $20, and likely a lot less. I have no issues with them making a profit, but this is simply gouging, and people pay it because "it's a Lexus"! Some people are happy when they only pay $200 after "discounts"!
Toyota pays a licence fee to whoever makes the maps (imagine the buying leverage the world's 1st or 2nd largest car mfg has!), stick it on a server somewhere. Dealers simply download the new maps when they want to do an upgrade. Toyota defers that license fee across all the cars they sell with Nav! They have no development costs for the maps, and they have no delivery costs. I wonder what Toyota charges for their map upgrades. It has to be the same map and basic hardware. I wonder if you could use one of theirs.
As a point of reference, look what Garmin or Tom Tom charges for map upgrades. I once paid $60 for a LIFETIME map upgrade from Garmin. I know they're cheaper for the hardware, but the normal justifications for paying far, FAR more for an integrated NAV system simply don't apply to upgrading the maps. On line nav apps don't charge ANYTHING, and they ALWAYS have the most current maps!
I may be wrong here, but I don't think so. I would welcome correction, but I can see no justification for what I consider a blatant rip off.
Toyota pays a licence fee to whoever makes the maps (imagine the buying leverage the world's 1st or 2nd largest car mfg has!), stick it on a server somewhere. Dealers simply download the new maps when they want to do an upgrade. Toyota defers that license fee across all the cars they sell with Nav! They have no development costs for the maps, and they have no delivery costs. I wonder what Toyota charges for their map upgrades. It has to be the same map and basic hardware. I wonder if you could use one of theirs.
As a point of reference, look what Garmin or Tom Tom charges for map upgrades. I once paid $60 for a LIFETIME map upgrade from Garmin. I know they're cheaper for the hardware, but the normal justifications for paying far, FAR more for an integrated NAV system simply don't apply to upgrading the maps. On line nav apps don't charge ANYTHING, and they ALWAYS have the most current maps!
I may be wrong here, but I don't think so. I would welcome correction, but I can see no justification for what I consider a blatant rip off.
12-09-12, 12:30 PM
#22
Nav Update
To the people complaining about the cost of the Navigation Update. It’s been 200 hundred dollars for a decade. You don’t have to have it done. So if you don’t want to spend the money. Don’t do it.
It never fails to amaze me how many people complain about the cost of things.
You think the leather recliners, 60 inch plasma TVs and loaner cars at the dealers are cheap?
If money is that important to you. You could have spent the whole day at the Toyota dealer. Sat on a nice folding chair. Bought a Pepsi out of the vending machine. While you get your Yaris and its Tom Tom navigation system worked on.
Running a business costs money. If you were unaware of the cost of maintenance for your 50 thousand dollar RX. And its 5 thousand dollar Navigation system. Then you didn’t do your homework.
Lexus is an upscale brand. And all dealers make money. If you think you’re getting over charged. Close your wallet and walk away.
If you think it’s expensive to own a Lexus. Talk to someone who owns something German.
It never fails to amaze me how many people complain about the cost of things.
You think the leather recliners, 60 inch plasma TVs and loaner cars at the dealers are cheap?
If money is that important to you. You could have spent the whole day at the Toyota dealer. Sat on a nice folding chair. Bought a Pepsi out of the vending machine. While you get your Yaris and its Tom Tom navigation system worked on.
Running a business costs money. If you were unaware of the cost of maintenance for your 50 thousand dollar RX. And its 5 thousand dollar Navigation system. Then you didn’t do your homework.
Lexus is an upscale brand. And all dealers make money. If you think you’re getting over charged. Close your wallet and walk away.
If you think it’s expensive to own a Lexus. Talk to someone who owns something German.
12-10-12, 12:55 PM
#24
ISFWes - Thanks for your contribution!
This is probably similar to how Lexus justifies price gouging, too. However, I would like to think they would do it with less condescension. I would suggest that many people on this forum actually support free enterprise, and understand that making a profit is NOT socially unacceptable. You might be surprised to note that there are MANY folks on this forum pay attention to the cost of what they need to purchase, because money actually IS important to them. Regardless of how much they have. I don’t think that disqualifies them from receiving the respect that should be expected from Lexus, Toyota, or from other members of this forum.
Lexus owners have ALREADY paid a "premium" price for a "premium" vehicle. Personally, I justified the additional price of our first Lexus, because after “doing my homework” I felt it really was an exceptional car. It was NOT for the privilege of paying more for routine maintenance for the life of the car. The idea that I should be expected to do exactly that because I drive a “premium brand” vehicle is simply ludicrous. I did my homework, and I expected a higher cost of ownership. However I fail to see why the fact that I can afford to pay more, makes it acceptable for Lexus to take advantage of me, or anyone else that is willing to pay.
Your argument that Lexus dealerships have to pay for their leather recliners, 60 inch plasma TVs, and loaner cars by inflating prices illustrates your lack of understanding. This issue is NOT the fault of the dealers! Lexus sets ridiculous prices and the dealers simply pass on the increased cost, as they MUST. While you might find many people that feel badly about the plight of a Lexus dealer, you would be hard pressed to convince anyone on this forum that Lexus needs the 1500% markup they get on a $160 map upgrade, to stay afloat. The difference in profit using REASONABLE prices would be almost unnoticeable to Lexus, while the improved customer experience and good will would be invaluable.
The funny part of this is that I’m NOT complaining about the prices I have to pay at a Lexus dealership. As you so deftly point out, I always have the ability to walk away. But there is a cost to that, as well. I WANT to have Lexus trained technicians doing factory authorized work on my car, as I believe it improves the value of the entire ownership experience. I just don’t want to feel like I’ve been hosed when I leave. What I AM complaining about, is that the Lexus business model often eliminates the opportunity for an owner to develop a partnership with Lexus, and I don’t understand why. Clearly, they want our loyalty. Why shouldn't it be a 2 way street?
BTW - I HAVE owned "something German". I drove it for 3 years, and never spent a nickel on it for ANY maintenance issue. It came with a 3 year/36K mile bumper to bumper warranty that included everything up to and including windshield wiper replacement and oil changes. I just like the Lexus more. However, justifying negative behavior by pointing to the bad behavior of others is another invalid (and juvenile) argument, and does not change the fact that both parties would be wrong.
This is probably similar to how Lexus justifies price gouging, too. However, I would like to think they would do it with less condescension. I would suggest that many people on this forum actually support free enterprise, and understand that making a profit is NOT socially unacceptable. You might be surprised to note that there are MANY folks on this forum pay attention to the cost of what they need to purchase, because money actually IS important to them. Regardless of how much they have. I don’t think that disqualifies them from receiving the respect that should be expected from Lexus, Toyota, or from other members of this forum.
Lexus owners have ALREADY paid a "premium" price for a "premium" vehicle. Personally, I justified the additional price of our first Lexus, because after “doing my homework” I felt it really was an exceptional car. It was NOT for the privilege of paying more for routine maintenance for the life of the car. The idea that I should be expected to do exactly that because I drive a “premium brand” vehicle is simply ludicrous. I did my homework, and I expected a higher cost of ownership. However I fail to see why the fact that I can afford to pay more, makes it acceptable for Lexus to take advantage of me, or anyone else that is willing to pay.
Your argument that Lexus dealerships have to pay for their leather recliners, 60 inch plasma TVs, and loaner cars by inflating prices illustrates your lack of understanding. This issue is NOT the fault of the dealers! Lexus sets ridiculous prices and the dealers simply pass on the increased cost, as they MUST. While you might find many people that feel badly about the plight of a Lexus dealer, you would be hard pressed to convince anyone on this forum that Lexus needs the 1500% markup they get on a $160 map upgrade, to stay afloat. The difference in profit using REASONABLE prices would be almost unnoticeable to Lexus, while the improved customer experience and good will would be invaluable.
The funny part of this is that I’m NOT complaining about the prices I have to pay at a Lexus dealership. As you so deftly point out, I always have the ability to walk away. But there is a cost to that, as well. I WANT to have Lexus trained technicians doing factory authorized work on my car, as I believe it improves the value of the entire ownership experience. I just don’t want to feel like I’ve been hosed when I leave. What I AM complaining about, is that the Lexus business model often eliminates the opportunity for an owner to develop a partnership with Lexus, and I don’t understand why. Clearly, they want our loyalty. Why shouldn't it be a 2 way street?
BTW - I HAVE owned "something German". I drove it for 3 years, and never spent a nickel on it for ANY maintenance issue. It came with a 3 year/36K mile bumper to bumper warranty that included everything up to and including windshield wiper replacement and oil changes. I just like the Lexus more. However, justifying negative behavior by pointing to the bad behavior of others is another invalid (and juvenile) argument, and does not change the fact that both parties would be wrong.
12-12-12, 10:05 AM
#25
Driver School Candidate
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: CA
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First Post on CL -So go easy on me 
My wife (or we) have just picked up or FIRST Lexus about a week ago. Although not new (2010 RX350), it's really nice, clean and was apparently well taken care of. It's 2010 w/just over 22k, a returned leased vehicle, purchased from Dealer as a CPO vehicle.
We are having the dealer apply tint to our front windows (Please, we won't discuss here - It's definitely not the first place I would go for this). We took our car in last night and after reading this thread, I had asked the Service dude what version the navigation was at. I was thinking maybe 11.1 , MAYBE 10.1, but to my surprise, he said it was a 9.1.... It's never been upgraded. I assume the vehicle was a lease, which I know the dealer is NOT going to put forth any additional effort. But am I WRONG to expect they would bring EVERYTHING up to date?
This is something that SHOULD have been negotiated prior to signing - if they would have at all. But do you think it's at least worth a call to the service manager, or sales people? At this price, I think it's something I (we) shouldn't have to ask? Also, as far as the roads, I have lived in Orange County all my life... It's not so much the roads that would be important, but the Points of Interests (POI's) would be bmore help to my wife...
Any thoughts? Any suggestions where I can voice my disappointment? 1-800 #?
My wife (or we) have just picked up or FIRST Lexus about a week ago. Although not new (2010 RX350), it's really nice, clean and was apparently well taken care of. It's 2010 w/just over 22k, a returned leased vehicle, purchased from Dealer as a CPO vehicle.
We are having the dealer apply tint to our front windows (Please, we won't discuss here - It's definitely not the first place I would go for this). We took our car in last night and after reading this thread, I had asked the Service dude what version the navigation was at. I was thinking maybe 11.1 , MAYBE 10.1, but to my surprise, he said it was a 9.1.... It's never been upgraded. I assume the vehicle was a lease, which I know the dealer is NOT going to put forth any additional effort. But am I WRONG to expect they would bring EVERYTHING up to date?
This is something that SHOULD have been negotiated prior to signing - if they would have at all. But do you think it's at least worth a call to the service manager, or sales people? At this price, I think it's something I (we) shouldn't have to ask? Also, as far as the roads, I have lived in Orange County all my life... It's not so much the roads that would be important, but the Points of Interests (POI's) would be bmore help to my wife...
Any thoughts? Any suggestions where I can voice my disappointment? 1-800 #?
12-12-12, 10:42 AM
#26
No, I don't play soccer!
CrimsonTide, welcome to CL and congrats on your RX350. I would contact your sales guy and ask him/her for the update. It still has the original nav version in there from three years ago. Tell him/her you'd like it done for your wife. Express your disappointment but not too strongly when everything else related to your purchase was perfect 
And if your RX was pre February 2010 build, it'll probably need the firmware update to address iPod scrolling issues. You can get more information about that here. Good luck.
And if your RX was pre February 2010 build, it'll probably need the firmware update to address iPod scrolling issues. You can get more information about that here. Good luck.
12-12-12, 11:52 AM
#27
First Post on CL -So go easy on me
My wife (or we) have just picked up or FIRST Lexus about a week ago. Although not new (2010 RX350), it's really nice, clean and was apparently well taken care of. It's 2010 w/just over 22k, a returned leased vehicle, purchased from Dealer as a CPO vehicle.
We are having the dealer apply tint to our front windows (Please, we won't discuss here - It's definitely not the first place I would go for this). We took our car in last night and after reading this thread, I had asked the Service dude what version the navigation was at. I was thinking maybe 11.1 , MAYBE 10.1, but to my surprise, he said it was a 9.1.... It's never been upgraded. I assume the vehicle was a lease, which I know the dealer is NOT going to put forth any additional effort. But am I WRONG to expect they would bring EVERYTHING up to date?
This is something that SHOULD have been negotiated prior to signing - if they would have at all. But do you think it's at least worth a call to the service manager, or sales people? At this price, I think it's something I (we) shouldn't have to ask? Also, as far as the roads, I have lived in Orange County all my life... It's not so much the roads that would be important, but the Points of Interests (POI's) would be bmore help to my wife...
Any thoughts? Any suggestions where I can voice my disappointment? 1-800 #?
My wife (or we) have just picked up or FIRST Lexus about a week ago. Although not new (2010 RX350), it's really nice, clean and was apparently well taken care of. It's 2010 w/just over 22k, a returned leased vehicle, purchased from Dealer as a CPO vehicle.
We are having the dealer apply tint to our front windows (Please, we won't discuss here - It's definitely not the first place I would go for this). We took our car in last night and after reading this thread, I had asked the Service dude what version the navigation was at. I was thinking maybe 11.1 , MAYBE 10.1, but to my surprise, he said it was a 9.1.... It's never been upgraded. I assume the vehicle was a lease, which I know the dealer is NOT going to put forth any additional effort. But am I WRONG to expect they would bring EVERYTHING up to date?
This is something that SHOULD have been negotiated prior to signing - if they would have at all. But do you think it's at least worth a call to the service manager, or sales people? At this price, I think it's something I (we) shouldn't have to ask? Also, as far as the roads, I have lived in Orange County all my life... It's not so much the roads that would be important, but the Points of Interests (POI's) would be bmore help to my wife...
Any thoughts? Any suggestions where I can voice my disappointment? 1-800 #?
Kitlz is right. It should be no big deal for them to bring it up to the current release. Especially since it's a CPO!
12-12-12, 12:20 PM
#28
Driver School Candidate
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: Ohio
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Nav 12.1 update
I fell in to a great situation. I spent the 169.00 on the update CD but the dealership put it in for free. The service advisor told me if I choose to do this again just let her know and she will show me how.
2008 RX350
Pearl white
AWD
2008 RX350
Pearl white
AWD
12-12-12, 12:59 PM
#29
NAV Upgrade
Woody. The point you're making is Lexus should treat you better? For them to have a better business?
Name one company where this isn't true.
My point is you made a conscience decision to buy into the Lexus business model. With all of its perfection and perceived faults.
For a reason known to you. You thought the Lexus system was better than the previous German business model you were with. So you left.
None of the costs in the Lexus system were hidden. And you have the option to not use most of the parts of the system.
I knew going in that Lexus charges 300 dollars for an oil change. And 100 dollars to change a cabin air filter. So I choose not to participate in that part of the system.
I would never have done the one NAV update I did on my RX. Except it was worth the 200 hundred dollars to me to get rid of the Accept screen on my display.
If you feel that the product or service isn't a value to you. Then don't participate.
But complaining about one part of the system to others after you spent money to become a member?
Name one company where this isn't true.
My point is you made a conscience decision to buy into the Lexus business model. With all of its perfection and perceived faults.
For a reason known to you. You thought the Lexus system was better than the previous German business model you were with. So you left.
None of the costs in the Lexus system were hidden. And you have the option to not use most of the parts of the system.
I knew going in that Lexus charges 300 dollars for an oil change. And 100 dollars to change a cabin air filter. So I choose not to participate in that part of the system.
I would never have done the one NAV update I did on my RX. Except it was worth the 200 hundred dollars to me to get rid of the Accept screen on my display.
If you feel that the product or service isn't a value to you. Then don't participate.
But complaining about one part of the system to others after you spent money to become a member?
12-12-12, 03:57 PM
#30
Other manufacturers charge similar prices for map updates so it's not really a matter of pay to play, you'd get the same treatment at other non-luxury brands. Nissan keeps wanting to sell me last years map update for the low, low price of $99 + install. I'm not even sure what the current year would go for but I'm sure it's in the $200 range. With the exception of a few accessories, the map updates seem to be the one item priced relatively the same as the rest of the industry. Our 2010 is on 9.whatever and I may update it at some point but it will probably be the only update we do.