rayaans

How is it marketed to a different buyer? The RX competes with the M-Class on price and the fact that it only has 5 seats too! I doubt many buyers buy the ML to trash it around and go offroad.

As for their quote on comfort and off roadability - if the New RR Sport can do it, why cant Merc? It costs more than the RR Sport! and seriously, that is one mighty vehicle.

kitlz

Lexus had an ML AMG in the same class with the RR and Yukon (I believe) at a Drivers Event years back. I had a blast taking the RR over the hill while my brother scraped the heck out of the back end of the MB at the end of the hill

oohpapi44

iTrader: (1)

The RX competes with the ML here and only here pretty much. None of the Germans consider the RX to be in it's class. They knew the RX was not going to be beaten in the areas and age groups that it excels in. Germans poached sales by offering sport utes that did what Lexus doesn't care to.

Driving characteristics - German
Off Road capability - German

The RX has absolutely nothing to talk about in those two areas and has extremely little to offer younger (likely male) drivers. First line of any F-Sport review is how far the vehicle is away from the Germans and how close it is to the base Rx.

If many buyers aren't buying the ML to trash around off road, then they are buying it for the 'joy' of driving. Different market altogether.

rayaans

Thats funny, I took a test drive and it doesnt exactly drive very well. Ride is too harsh and it feels gruff. Go drive one, the RX F Sport has better balance of handling and ride. If you think the F Sport is harsh, youll feel like youre driving a flintstone vehicle with rock wheels.

oohpapi44

iTrader: (1)

Like I said, two totally different markets. I've driven the Germans and my heart, skill level and adrenaline appreciate them for what they are. My back, butt, wallet and piece of mind appreciate the RX.

Search online and see how long it takes you to find a direct comparison of the RX to anything German (other than X3). It's not in the same category other than being a 5 seater.

I'm not trying to change your mind at all. It's all subjective. Just wanted to respond to your point that while you're LOL'ng they are likely doing the same for their own reasons.

RX330inFL

Another example of the different mindset of the German auto industry needs you need to think back a few years. For years and years you would not find a cup holder in any of their vehicles. They could not understand the American's desire to have a beverage available while driving. To them it was unsafe. Even after they did it was more an after thought than anything else. Features like soft touch materials, leather surfaces and clearly defined button layouts get secondary attention when compared to driving dynamics and safety.

rayaans

I do get what you mean to an extent. I drove it, didnt suit me but obviously itll suit someone else. The engine wasnt exactly the best, refined, yes, but it didnt suit the way I drive and it was nowhere near the smoothness of the RX. NVH was particularly noteworthy in the ML.

Of course, I do understand that some people wont be bothered about that and I also know that most buyers here in the UK prefer to just buy a base spec vehicle so itll probably be cheaper for them on that regard.

A few articles on the RX against ze Germans -

http://www.autoexpress.co.uk/car-rev...-bmw-x5-30d-se

http://www.autoexpress.co.uk/lexus/r...450h-vs-rivals

http://www.autoexpress.co.uk/lexus/r.../lexus-rx-450h

http://www.autoexpress.co.uk/mercede...rcedes-m-class

Noe that the reviewers say that the RX F Sport has more direct steering, more equipment, better refinement and is composed during cornering and "body movement is kept well in check". It also says that the car rides well.

If thats not enough then I dont know what is.

RXSF

For the record, you can turn off start/stop on a mercedes, but it defaults back to on I think every time you start the car.

I also agree the ML is in a different league, higher in class. It has a 10 thousand dollar price difference than the RX, and the interior is much more premium feeling.

oohpapi44

iTrader: (1)

OK, let quantify this discussion a bit. We don't get the ML250 offered here in the states. It is the lowest on the ML lineup and only moderately priced higher with similar options as the RX. If it were offered here, it would be on the same level as the X3 and yes, in direct competition with the RX.

I didn't see the F-Sport review you were referencing, but in any article I've seen saying the same thing, they've only been comparing it to the base level RX. I am absolutely sure there are no articles on this planet that say the F-Sport has MORE direct steering, better corning, etc than any of the German 3. I love Lexus as much as the next but will call a spade a spade when necessary. You don't get an RX if you love driving, and can drive. Unless there is an RX-F v8 in the works to compete with the X5M the comparison needs to end when it comes to driving joy. Lexus was smart and introduced a stiffer RX and lowered their owner age demographics to include the late 30/early 40 male buying group.

corradoMR2

Hard to justify this statement if you don't own an RX F-Sport?

I'm with rayaans on the F-Sport's handling/suspension performance and fun-to-drive factor. To put things into perspective, I also own an IS F-Sport, now arguably the best handling near luxury sports sedan in its class. Taking out both cars to a few of my favorite twisty roads shows the IS's superiority thanks to its RWD-biased chassis, 900 lbs lighter and better weight distribution, lower center of mass, and so on. Physics can't be cheated here. However, where the RX F-Sport still impresses me today is how tight and nearly flat the cornering is, how well balanced and stable it is on a chicane or emergency lane change, how much lighter it feels than 4500 lbs, and oh that 8-speed and paddle shifters makes taking that chicane even more interesting - brake and downshift just at the turning point, part throttle over the clipping points, then full throttle at the exit point and upshift! Getting excited again - who would believe excitement from an RX? It's true, it's a blast to drive

oohpapi44

iTrader: (1)

Agreed, all subjective. I won't beat this topic into the ground as it's been covered. F-Sport is a great improvement over the gas RX. But it is nowhere close to anything German, not even in the conversation.

Here is a good thread.
https://www.clublexus.com/forums/rx-...ml#post8326892

dctex99

Totally agree; if MB is so wonderful; expound your wonderful facts on their thread...lol

rayaans

Didnt I just post 2 links up where the RX beats the X5 and the ML for more direct steering and comfort? It came above the ML. Were you simply choosing to ignore that? I dont understand how the steering and comfort between the ML250 and ML350 differ?

oohpapi44

iTrader: (1)

ok, you win. Really done because you're missing the point of the discussion and reading this like I'm bashing the RX.

Feel free to line up the F-Sport at a track or a red light against, the Cayenne, X5 or ML3xx series and think it will be a fair fight.

rayaans

Do people really take SUV's on a track?

Looking at the figures for the ML350 CDI and taking into consideration the extra mass + the twitchy gearbox, I bet I could have one on the lights.

Cayenne is a whole different story, a similiar spec cayenne would come to £65k easily.

Hmm wonder what happens when the new RX comes out with "hopefully" the 340hp hybrid system from the GS.