Talk me out of a '13 Audi Q5 Premium Plus
11-25-16, 09:58 AM
#46
I am not sure why some folks are mentioning the Outback as an alternative to the RX. The Outback is a crossover, not an SUV. If you want the RX, how could you want the Outback? The Forester is more similar to the RX, and reliability is equal. Price is much less, though the quality of some components, and overall refinement, is not on par with the RX. We almost bought a new Forester before buying our '13 RX. My wife bought a new Forester and drove for it 3 years, before buying an MDX. She was ready to buy a 2016 Forester until she drove the '13 RX. The RX was about $9K less, so had already taken the depreciation hit. It also was far more comfortable and luxurious. I am a big Subaru fan, but they are not the well-refined car that the RX is.
Last edited by 11bravo; 11-25-16 at 05:23 PM.
11-25-16, 02:30 PM
#47
Pole Position
Your brother in law probably would have faired way better if he kept the Lexus GX470. 140K miles on the GX or any Lexus is nothing. That's assuming all normal maintenance items are done on time. I have confidence in Lexus vehicles to go at least 250K without much issues, if all maintenance are timely done. Can't say the same with Audi's or some of the Euro brands. To some people it is more important to be seen in an Audi versus a Lexus, I guess. CPO Audi really means nothing to me either except for the dealer to try to make the customer feel better. But if the Audi is constantly at the shop or worse, get my wife and kids stranded middle of nowhere. Then even CPO will not really help instantly.........having to wait for a tow truck, rental car, and etc.
I thought about a Q5 until my brother in law bought a 2010 with 60k miles on it. He traded his GX 470 for it, because with a 140k miles, it was beginning to need some repairs. With his Audi keys in hand and a fresh car payment, he proceeded to shell out 1000s every month for everything that broke. What an absolute piece of trash. Average reliability my foot, unless average really does mean trash!
Subies are great cars, but I've never got my wife to buy into the idea either, or I'd likely have an Outback in the garage at the moment, instead of the RX, but we love the RX too. I just much prefer the handling and cavernous hatch area.
Subies are great cars, but I've never got my wife to buy into the idea either, or I'd likely have an Outback in the garage at the moment, instead of the RX, but we love the RX too. I just much prefer the handling and cavernous hatch area.
11-29-16, 11:49 AM
#48
Lexus Champion
I am not sure why some folks are mentioning the Outback as an alternative to the RX. The Outback is a crossover, not an SUV. If you want the RX, how could you want the Outback? The Forester is more similar to the RX, and reliability is equal. Price is much less, though the quality of some components, and overall refinement, is not on par with the RX. We almost bought a new Forester before buying our '13 RX. My wife bought a new Forester and drove for it 3 years, before buying an MDX. She was ready to buy a 2016 Forester until she drove the '13 RX. The RX was about $9K less, so had already taken the depreciation hit. It also was far more comfortable and luxurious. I am a big Subaru fan, but they are not the well-refined car that the RX is.
GX and LX are the SUVs in the lineup. Subaru does not build an SUVs.
Outback is based on the Legacy platform, while Forester is Impreza. That makes Outback more upscale and refined.
With features like HIDs and motorized tailgate, it is not that far off from the RX, yet exceeds it when it comes to handling.
I just did a full brake job on our RX and was swearing at Toyota for skimping on rustproofing.
Man, those calipers were a mess. The whole underbody looks like it's 10 years old (granted it will stay this way until it is 10 years old).
Subaru was much better in that regard. You have to clean wrenches from black tar that they sensibly applied to components at the factory.
So while Lexus is indeed more refined, I'm not feeling it looking from under the car.
P.S.
While we're on reliability topic, make sure to lubricate those sliding pins in the calipers. All 4 of mine were stuck and would have needed future replacement, have I not run into this problem with my 'ol IS300.
11-29-16, 11:56 AM
#49
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It's extremely high temperature rating makes it really last!
It's extremely high temperature rating makes it really last!
11-29-16, 04:04 PM
#50
Vlad, while you are certainly correct from an engineering standpoint, the general public, and almost every major automotive publication in the nation, considers the RX an SUV, and the Outback a crossover. My comment regarded "folks", not engineers. I appreciate your comment, and agree with your technical assessment. However, the general public determines a vehicle by shape and utility. Sports car, coupe, sedan, performance car, hybrid, SUV (small and large), and truck, and all are pretty much visual in classification.
Interestingly, the EPA does not even have an SUV class, nor a crossover. Almost all cars are two seaters, station wagons, or grouped by size.
Just my opinion, though.
Interestingly, the EPA does not even have an SUV class, nor a crossover. Almost all cars are two seaters, station wagons, or grouped by size.
Just my opinion, though.
Last edited by 11bravo; 11-29-16 at 04:34 PM.
11-30-16, 07:35 AM
#51
Lexus Champion
Vlad, while you are certainly correct from an engineering standpoint, the general public, and almost every major automotive publication in the nation, considers the RX an SUV, and the Outback a crossover. My comment regarded "folks", not engineers. I appreciate your comment, and agree with your technical assessment. However, the general public determines a vehicle by shape and utility. Sports car, coupe, sedan, performance car, hybrid, SUV (small and large), and truck, and all are pretty much visual in classification.
Interestingly, the EPA does not even have an SUV class, nor a crossover. Almost all cars are two seaters, station wagons, or grouped by size.
Just my opinion, though.
Interestingly, the EPA does not even have an SUV class, nor a crossover. Almost all cars are two seaters, station wagons, or grouped by size.
Just my opinion, though.
And yes, you are right, people do call crossovers an SUV based purely on the perceived shape. And you are dead-on on all of the above really being wagons.
My hat goes off to Toyota for reshaping the SUV market with a crossover offering and being the first ones at the starting line, whatever the name may be, or was at the time.
The future of the real [old school] SUVs is looking rather bleak. Most companies have abandoned ship and slapped old SUV badges on crossovers, not helping with the above categories.
So now there's a big question mark around the two dinosaurs still sticking around, Toyota 4Runner and Lexus GX460.
And nowhere is it more obvious where the crossover ends and an SUV starts as between the Highlander and the 4Runner.
We all know 4Runner is set to loose based on exactly what you described. If Highlander appeals to the public as an SUV, then what is 4Runner's role the market segment?
I'm sure Toyota execs are scratching their heads on that one and 4Runner showing very strong sales is not helping their dilemma.
The outcome will dictate whether a longer RX(L) replaces aging GX in the lineup.
11-30-16, 10:14 AM
#52
I am not sure why some folks are mentioning the Outback as an alternative to the RX. The Outback is a crossover, not an SUV. If you want the RX, how could you want the Outback? The Forester is more similar to the RX, and reliability is equal. Price is much less, though the quality of some components, and overall refinement, is not on par with the RX. We almost bought a new Forester before buying our '13 RX. My wife bought a new Forester and drove for it 3 years, before buying an MDX. She was ready to buy a 2016 Forester until she drove the '13 RX. The RX was about $9K less, so had already taken the depreciation hit. It also was far more comfortable and luxurious. I am a big Subaru fan, but they are not the well-refined car that the RX is.
11-30-16, 01:31 PM
#53
Xlnt comments, Vlad. I, too, wonder where the market is going. Nobody, not anybody, would have been able to predict 600-700 horsepower muscle cars being very popular in the new millennium (I certainly like them). I have daily-driven either a Tahoe or Silverado constantly since 1997. Twenty years ago, I thought that in 20 years, every person would be driving a jelly bean or a pickup, and that certainly hasn't happened. I do think that crossovers and smaller SUV's (defined by size, not platform) appeal to a huge segment, and may dominate the market for several more decades. I probably won't be here to see any astonishing changes...I will keep driving my truck, unless I buy a Corvette....
11-30-16, 01:59 PM
#54
Lexus Champion
I thought about a Q5 until my brother in law bought a 2010 with 60k miles on it. He traded his GX 470 for it, because with a 140k miles, it was beginning to need some repairs. With his Audi keys in hand and a fresh car payment, he proceeded to shell out 1000s every month for everything that broke. What an absolute piece of trash. Average reliability my foot, unless average really does mean trash!
Subies are great cars, but I've never got my wife to buy into the idea either, or I'd likely have an Outback in the garage at the moment, instead of the RX, but we love the RX too. I just much prefer the handling and cavernous hatch area.
Subies are great cars, but I've never got my wife to buy into the idea either, or I'd likely have an Outback in the garage at the moment, instead of the RX, but we love the RX too. I just much prefer the handling and cavernous hatch area.
11-30-16, 09:37 PM
#55
I'm not trying to sell Audi's here just a different experience. We bought a 2013 Q5, our first Audi, and drove it for nearly 4 years with zero issues. Just routine maintenance and a couple of TSB's that I wasn't aware of which they did when in for service. Based on this experience we bought a 2016 A6 same experience so far (only 6 months though). I buy my cars and keep them through the factory warranty period (that includes our Lexus cars) so can't comment on the long term.
12-01-16, 10:56 AM
#56
I would consider 36 months - 48 months or more "long term", but that's my idea. My honest opinion is anything more than 1 year could be considered long term. I had an Acura & kept it for close to 10 yrs. It was a great, reliable car, despite a transmission recall replacement. I see a lot of the same parts & designs in the Lexus as I did in the Acura & hope it does well past 4 or 5 years. I really enjoy driving my RX 450h, despite what some critics claim as a "mush-mobile". I sometimes look for an excuse to get in & drive it.
12-01-16, 10:07 PM
#57
I would consider 36 months - 48 months or more "long term", but that's my idea. My honest opinion is anything more than 1 year could be considered long term. I had an Acura & kept it for close to 10 yrs. It was a great, reliable car, despite a transmission recall replacement. I see a lot of the same parts & designs in the Lexus as I did in the Acura & hope it does well past 4 or 5 years. I really enjoy driving my RX 450h, despite what some critics claim as a "mush-mobile". I sometimes look for an excuse to get in & drive it.
12-02-16, 10:43 AM
#58
You won't find a bigger BMW fan on this forum, but I still can't do more than one at a time. Far a DD, Lexus all the way. For fun BMW, but best to set some aside for maintenance and repairs. The sad thing about Audi is they don't really drive as luxuriously as Lexus, nowhere as sporty as a Bimmer. To top things off Audi parts and service model are insane by comparison. Very few if any parts can be purchased individually with Audi. Break a clip on your door handle, no problem, your new door handle assembly awaits. HVAC fan squeaks, no problem, your complete HVAC assembly awaits. There isn't a screw that isn't sold as a whole assembly. This makes the car impossible to maintain after the warranty period. I would have to agree, owning an Audi 5 years is long term. The pain and suffering has to end, before it begins. That's a huge contrast to driving my last Lexus 13 years. To each his own...
12-02-16, 11:33 AM
#59
Lexus Champion
You won't find a bigger BMW fan on this forum, but I still can't do more than one at a time. Far a DD, Lexus all the way. For fun BMW, but best to set some aside for maintenance and repairs. The sad thing about Audi is they don't really drive as luxuriously as Lexus, nowhere as sporty as a Bimmer. To top things off Audi parts and service model are insane by comparison. Very few if any parts can be purchased individually with Audi. Break a clip on your door handle, no problem, your new door handle assembly awaits. HVAC fan squeaks, no problem, your complete HVAC assembly awaits. There isn't a screw that isn't sold as a whole assembly. This makes the car impossible to maintain after the warranty period. I would have to agree, owning an Audi 5 years is long term. The pain and suffering has to end, before it begins. That's a huge contrast to driving my last Lexus 13 years. To each his own...
I would disagree on Audi being less luxurious than a Lexus. Yes, it does not ride as plush, but it handles much better and offers a very serene cabin.
And my S4 will beat most beemers in the sport category.
You must be an old-time BMW fan because the company has gone mainstream. Cost-cutting everywhere. Interiors that can barely compete with a Corolla.
Never mind engineering that is simply not there. I like what BMW used to stand for, but don't get me started on what is wrong with the brand now.
12-03-16, 08:04 AM
#60
Intermediate
I can walk into any BMW dealer and offer to pay cash MSRP for a 5-series on the condition that they install a block heater and replace those garbage run-flat tires with actual tires.
They won't.
That's enough to turn me off of the entire brand when there are reasonable competitors in the same market.
They won't.
That's enough to turn me off of the entire brand when there are reasonable competitors in the same market.