Advantages in using fuel system cleaner
11-06-17, 07:54 AM
#16
The question was is there a need for additives. Yes, there is as the air we breathe has moisture in it. Condensation occurs when there is a differntial in temperature. Just like pooring a cold glass of water, it is not the glass leaking that saturated its outside with water droplets. It's condensation of that cold surface pulling the moisture from the air. It occurs everywhere.
That alone creates a need for products to remove the moisture from our fuel system. That is my point.
Vehicles that sit for weeks on end should be kept as full as possible to reduce condensation from forming on the inside of the tank. Granted these systems are sealed better that the old days but they must let air in and that air has moisture in it in varying concentrations depending on the ambient conditions.
That alone creates a need for products to remove the moisture from our fuel system. That is my point.
Vehicles that sit for weeks on end should be kept as full as possible to reduce condensation from forming on the inside of the tank. Granted these systems are sealed better that the old days but they must let air in and that air has moisture in it in varying concentrations depending on the ambient conditions.
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Cocal (11-06-17)
11-06-17, 08:14 AM
#17
You defend your statement by quoting an advertisement. They are trying to sell something. Not to be trusted. I have a degree in engineering, two semesters of P chem, two of O chem and three of physics. Water and alcohol dissolve each other. One does not "attract" or "absorb" the other. Lots of big words in the quote you offered but scientifically wrong. Secondly, water and alcohol do not separate. If that were the case you would have to agitate your beer or gin to mix it up again after it sat for a while. The way you separate the two is through distillation.They do not separate if left alone. It is your money. Use what you want.
I believe the point 2013FSport is trying to make, and what makes the alcohol based gas line antifreezes work, is not that water and alcohol will mix, but instead, water and gas don't mix.
However, if you add alcohol to the water/gas mixture, the water and alcohol will interact on the molecular level so that the relatively small amounts of water/alcohol molecules will mix with gas, and as long as proportions in the tank don't get too skewed to the water/alcohol side, will burn fine. Additionally, the water will not crystallize (a.k.a. freeze) when cold since it has been distributed through out the mixture.
11-06-17, 08:39 AM
#18
Intermediate
I never use additives and have not had any fuel system problems in any of the vehicles I've owned over the last 30 years, As long as you buy from a "name brand" gas station there will be additives already added.
As far as the OP's decrease in mileage, I have to ask if they switch between summer and winter blends for gas in Toronto? In suburban Chicago I always get a drop in mileage around this time of the year when the switch is made.
As far as the OP's decrease in mileage, I have to ask if they switch between summer and winter blends for gas in Toronto? In suburban Chicago I always get a drop in mileage around this time of the year when the switch is made.
all kinds of stations.
11-06-17, 08:48 AM
#19
While I do agree that the linked article is mostly garbage...
I believe the point 2013FSport is trying to make, and what makes the alcohol based gas line antifreezes work, is not that water and alcohol will mix, but instead, water and gas don't mix.
However, if you add alcohol to the water/gas mixture, the water and alcohol will interact on the molecular level so that the relatively small amounts of water/alcohol molecules will mix with gas, and as long as proportions in the tank don't get too skewed to the water/alcohol side, will burn fine. Additionally, the water will not crystallize (a.k.a. freeze) when cold since it has been distributed through out the mixture.
I believe the point 2013FSport is trying to make, and what makes the alcohol based gas line antifreezes work, is not that water and alcohol will mix, but instead, water and gas don't mix.
However, if you add alcohol to the water/gas mixture, the water and alcohol will interact on the molecular level so that the relatively small amounts of water/alcohol molecules will mix with gas, and as long as proportions in the tank don't get too skewed to the water/alcohol side, will burn fine. Additionally, the water will not crystallize (a.k.a. freeze) when cold since it has been distributed through out the mixture.
11-06-17, 10:32 AM
#20
10th Gear
Thread Starter
tus
Yes, I gather from earlier posts that the blends are different for summer and winter here in Toronto as well. So that is one of the key reasons why the mileage performance drops at this time of year when winter hasn't yet set in.
Re. the need for additives in the tank - my take from the above posts is that most gas supplies include additives that would limit the ill-effects of any water that finds it's way into the gasoline/ethanol mix that's supplied at the gas station. Also if higher octane gas is used, the percentage of ethanol is reduced. The miniscule quantity of water in the fuel should not affect vehicles such as 3rd gen Lexus which are used daily.
Thanks for the lively discussion
Yes, I gather from earlier posts that the blends are different for summer and winter here in Toronto as well. So that is one of the key reasons why the mileage performance drops at this time of year when winter hasn't yet set in.
Re. the need for additives in the tank - my take from the above posts is that most gas supplies include additives that would limit the ill-effects of any water that finds it's way into the gasoline/ethanol mix that's supplied at the gas station. Also if higher octane gas is used, the percentage of ethanol is reduced. The miniscule quantity of water in the fuel should not affect vehicles such as 3rd gen Lexus which are used daily.
Thanks for the lively discussion
11-06-17, 01:58 PM
#21
tus
Yes, I gather from earlier posts that the blends are different for summer and winter here in Toronto as well. So that is one of the key reasons why the mileage performance drops at this time of year when winter hasn't yet set in.
Re. the need for additives in the tank - my take from the above posts is that most gas supplies include additives that would limit the ill-effects of any water that finds it's way into the gasoline/ethanol mix that's supplied at the gas station. Also if higher octane gas is used, the percentage of ethanol is reduced. The miniscule quantity of water in the fuel should not affect vehicles such as 3rd gen Lexus which are used daily.
Thanks for the lively discussion
Yes, I gather from earlier posts that the blends are different for summer and winter here in Toronto as well. So that is one of the key reasons why the mileage performance drops at this time of year when winter hasn't yet set in.
Re. the need for additives in the tank - my take from the above posts is that most gas supplies include additives that would limit the ill-effects of any water that finds it's way into the gasoline/ethanol mix that's supplied at the gas station. Also if higher octane gas is used, the percentage of ethanol is reduced. The miniscule quantity of water in the fuel should not affect vehicles such as 3rd gen Lexus which are used daily.
Thanks for the lively discussion
Also, by virtue of having only 2 carbon atoms,it also boosts the octane rating of the gas it's mixed in.
With the sealed fuel systems we have these days you really don't see much air exchange into or out of the tank. Along with the low humidity of the winter air, even if there is an exchange I don't think there is enough moisture in it to cause a problem.
My '87 Corvette had half a tank of 2 year old gas in it, with no additives, when I decided to take it out this year. I burned about half of what was left in it before filling up and had no problems. The GF's '12 Camaro SS was the same but the gas was only a little over a year old.
One thing I always get a kick out of is this discussion almost always comes around when people get ready to store their summer cars for the winter. No one ever worries about summerizing their winter car when spring comes around
Last edited by tus; 11-06-17 at 02:38 PM.
11-06-17, 03:55 PM
#22
Keep in mind, ethanol is an isopropyl alcohol. Its the same stuff that is in the gas line antifreeze you buy.
Also, by virtue of having only 2 carbon atoms,it also boosts the octane rating of the gas it's mixed in.
With the sealed fuel systems we have these days you really don't see much air exchange into or out of the tank. Along with the low humidity of the winter air, even if there is an exchange I don't think there is enough moisture in it to cause a problem.
My '87 Corvette had half a tank of 2 year old gas in it, with no additives, when I decided to take it out this year. I burned about half of what was left in it before filling up and had no problems. The GF's '12 Camaro SS was the same but the gas was only a little over a year old.
One thing I always get a kick out of is this discussion almost always comes around when people get ready to store their summer cars for the winter. No one ever worries about summerizing their winter car when spring comes around
Also, by virtue of having only 2 carbon atoms,it also boosts the octane rating of the gas it's mixed in.
With the sealed fuel systems we have these days you really don't see much air exchange into or out of the tank. Along with the low humidity of the winter air, even if there is an exchange I don't think there is enough moisture in it to cause a problem.
My '87 Corvette had half a tank of 2 year old gas in it, with no additives, when I decided to take it out this year. I burned about half of what was left in it before filling up and had no problems. The GF's '12 Camaro SS was the same but the gas was only a little over a year old.
One thing I always get a kick out of is this discussion almost always comes around when people get ready to store their summer cars for the winter. No one ever worries about summerizing their winter car when spring comes around
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tus (11-06-17)
11-06-17, 04:40 PM
#23
You are correct that chemically they are very different, but you will get the same effect when mixing it with a water in a gas tank.
11-10-17, 08:02 AM
#25
Instructor
I don't know about cleaning properties. I think Redline Fuel system cleaner is moderately effective - my MPG always goes up for about 1000 miles. Then it comes back down. some tests on Youtube..
I also like Clean Boost Maxx. check out the tests on youtube.
this thing doesn't (or at least for me) seem to clean anything. my mpg is pretty much the same. but my butt dyno tells me I get more power.
Finally for my diesel car, I like FPPF diesel additive. Cetane increaseis what I'm after here. Since Lexus doesn't make diesel cars I'll skip the video on this one.
I also like Clean Boost Maxx. check out the tests on youtube.
Finally for my diesel car, I like FPPF diesel additive. Cetane increaseis what I'm after here. Since Lexus doesn't make diesel cars I'll skip the video on this one.
11-10-17, 10:05 AM
#26
Moderator
Keep in mind when you use fuel cleaner additives, they end up in the oil. So when the tank is depleted (additives are gone), do a oil and filter change.
Salim
Salim
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tempestv8 (03-27-18)
12-22-23, 12:38 PM
#27
Thoughts on fuel system cleaning additives?
Hey all,
My RX450h is reaching its 90K miles, and I've been using Costco's premium gas. When gas was cheap, I used to use Chevron gas that has Techron stuff, the cleaning agent, in it. Well, Chevron sells such cleaning additive pretty much in every auto parts store, e.g., https://www.oreillyauto.com/detail/c...=techron&pos=1.
I am thinking of doing 1 or 2 two treatments with the Techron additive to clean things out, e.g., preventing the fuel injectors from being clogged up. Has anyone tried this Techron stuff or any other cleaning additive on your Lexus? Appreciate for any input.
Thanks.
My RX450h is reaching its 90K miles, and I've been using Costco's premium gas. When gas was cheap, I used to use Chevron gas that has Techron stuff, the cleaning agent, in it. Well, Chevron sells such cleaning additive pretty much in every auto parts store, e.g., https://www.oreillyauto.com/detail/c...=techron&pos=1.
I am thinking of doing 1 or 2 two treatments with the Techron additive to clean things out, e.g., preventing the fuel injectors from being clogged up. Has anyone tried this Techron stuff or any other cleaning additive on your Lexus? Appreciate for any input.
Thanks.
12-23-23, 04:34 AM
#28
All of our vehicles get a 20-ounce bottle of Techron down the hatch at every oil & filter change. Been using it for decades. Never had a fuel injector issue, It is the only fuel injection system cleaner I trust.
12-23-23, 04:39 AM
#29
Moderator
I also have used Techron in the 20 ounce size for many years and recommend it. Look for it on sale at Advance Auto Parts.
If you have no issues 1 treatment should be plenty for preventive maintenance.
If you have no issues 1 treatment should be plenty for preventive maintenance.
12-24-23, 11:27 PM
#30
@RX in NC and @Clutchless Thank you! Good to know from your experiences. My local well-known auto parts store has a special sale buy-one-get-one free for Techron. I poured in a 12-ounce bottle for 12 gallons of gas filled up (one ounce per gallon, per the instructions). I actually have noticed already some smoothness in acceleration. Looking to do clean per oil change.