HealP

Hi,
1 week ago I bought a 2011 RX350 Base with 81K miles on it.
I bought it from a BMW/Mini Dealership.
It is very clean.
Has new tires rotors and pads.
A couple days after I bought it I checked the oil and found it to be a quart low (it was fresh oil though).
Today I noticed that the coolant expansion reservoir was bone dry and the cap was missing.
I have driven about 250 miles since I bought it.
The temp gauge has not risen above half.
I will take it back tomorrow.
They are gonna want to just top it off and give me a new cap.
Maybe that will be fine.
I have 90 days of warranty with them.
Should I ask them to pressure test the coolant system and make sure all is well?
Maybe I should pay an independent mechanic to go over the car for an hour.

Thoughts?

Thanks
Peter

Clutchless

They need to use Toyota Long Life coolant, not BMW coolant. You may want to buy your own from a Toyota dealer, same with the cap. They need to order the new cap anyway and it has to come from Toyota/Lexus.
Probably just the cap fell off and some fluid got out. Hope that is what happened!
Yes, you should get an independent inspection, actually before you bought it!

ukrkoz

MAKE THEM do pressure test. As in - A MUST. Unless they are irresponsible jerks, what does not sound like BMW people, that car should have been topped on all fluids and gas tank.
Now, if they will somehow convince you that that is absolute nothing to worry about and ya de ya da, and you simply let them top expansion tank - that cap doesn't really do much, it's not a sealed canister - take sharpie and MARK coolant level. Then, check on it every 3rd day. Driving regularly, of course. If it drops down even qrtr of an inch - you got coolant leak somewhere and you do RAISE HELL over their heads.
As, combined with low oil, it sorta starts smelling of bad head gasket. Or, blow by burn out somewhere. Stick finger into tail pipe. Does it come out sooty? Start the car. Give it about 10 seconds then step on it, while looking into the rear view mirror. Any grey or bluish tint to exhaust? Let car run and take piece of paper towel to the tail pipe. Hold it there about an inch away, then ask helper to rev to maybe 2000 rpm and hold. If you see reddish or oily droplets plus smell of coolant - you do have blow by.
Nothing will happen if you were not on Toyota coolant. Doesn't really matter.
I guarantee you that, on TIGHT engine, coolant level does not change for years. I know. I always mark it and hawk it.
Of course, check oil level same time. Engines are VERY expensive to replace.

ukrkoz

Pressure test and leak down test. Yes Sir.

tus

The coolant reservoir under the hood is an expansion tank for the system. As coolant gets hot it expands and needs someplace to go, so you have the expansion tank. As things cool down the coolant will get sucked back into the system. The level of fluid in the thing will go up and down depending on the temperature of the coolant. If you take a close look at it you'll see there is a full hot and full cold mark on the side of the thing.

Have the dealer top off the radiator and oil, and fill the overflow to the appropriate level. For the coolant, drive the thing around for a few weeks, checking every day or two to see if the coolant level in the expansion tank is between the marks and closer to the hot or cold one based on the engine temp. For the oil, check the level first thing in the morning to see if it's at the proper level. Also take a look at the oil itself and make sure it looks like oil and not a creamy mix of coolant and oil which would indicate a head gasket leak.

I think it's just sloppy work by the dealer on a used car they really were not interested in, but you do have your warranty. Pressure testing the coolant system, and more importantly the radiator cap, which is a common part that fails and causes the coolant to be vented as steam instead of diverting to the overflow, might be something you would want to ask for. For now I would consider a leak down and compression test to be overkill, we don't know enough to justify them. Just make sure you document everything so they can't come back at you later on the 91st day.

HealP

Thanks
Thats all go info
I originally checked it when it was cold and the reservoir was bone dry.
The next day it had about an inch of coolant in it when it was hot (still way below the Min line).
They were sloppy.
They topped off the oil and coolant and replaced the coolant overflow cap.
I drew a line on the reservoir with a sharpie (as suggested by ukrkoz) for the new level for both Cold and Hot and will be checking it every day.

Clutchless

I second the recommendation to replace the radiator cap. I recall Pat Goss, the mechanic on the Motor Week TV show recommending replacing them every few years as the springs weaken and they do not hold as high a pressure after many years and miles, allowing the cooling system to run hotter and lose coolant. Radiator caps are inexpensive. Just get the OEM pressure rating.

http://www.motorweek.org/features/go...g_system_blues

tus

Since there was still enough in the system to push some out when hot I think you'll be fine, there was enough in the thing to completely fill it when it mattered. Still, keep an eye on it for a while.

raytseng

The expansion tank fluid will evaporate over time. Even with a properly working radiator cap, every time the expansion tank fluid expands, a small portion of vapor is pushed out of the expansion tank into the atmosphere, and then when it cools, dry air is sucked back in.
Because of Boiling temp differences between water and ethylene-glycol, this selectively evaporates more WATER compared to COOLANT. So if you are topping off, you should top off with distilled WATER over coolant because this is evaporative loss, not coolant loss.
Because your expansion tank had no cap, much more vapor has evaporated than regular, but still, it should selectively been mostly water evaporation and not coolant loss.

I also would recommend, you don't need to hit the full line. When hot, and when you are redoing your coolantyou should aim for MIDDLE of min/max. If you set it up to max, when it gets hot, it may just push your excess fluid out the overflow, and make a mess.

Still Your car is modelyear 2011, which means made in 2010. So this is 8years, and almost to the 10year spec for SLLC. If I were you, I'd you just do a coolant change and start at a new baseline.

HealP

Thanks Raytseng,
Th dealership topped it off right between Max and Min (like you suggested).
They also rechecked the car and recorded the coolant loss issue.
I have been checking it every other day in the morning and the amount of coolant is holding steady

ukrkoz

Keep checking. It should stay at your mark practically for years. If you had canister bone dry, chance is system sucked some air in. When it is cold, open radiator cap and check on coolant level. Add as needed. Prestone is just fine, it's a myth you can't mix coolants. Even infamous coagulating Dexcool can be mixed with Prestone.
Ok, so here is my word. Those engines are normally built very tight. I have years of RX experience and coolant never budged even a bit. Same on my then Camry and now Highlander. So if you had it bone dry, something happened. It either leaked out or else. This, unfortunately, is a telltale sign of vehicle being in front end collision. Just saying. If you think, dealers do not sell rebuilts, think twice.
So keep eye on it. Maybe not daily, really, but weekly - for sure.

tus

Thinking about this, I have at least 4 bottles in my shop, all coolant with Prestone on the things, and there's only one that is universal. You may not get sediments, but you will mess with the cooling and temperature properties of the stuff and in the worst case turn the stuff acidic.

iolmaster

iTrader: (1)

I am not really sure what you are talking about. The standard long life in the yellow container that we see most often is fine in our vehicles. It meets all the requirements detailed in the owners manual.

RickC5

All newer Toyota & Lexus vehicles are designed to use only Toyota's "red" anti-freeze mixture. This is a pre-mixed solution and it is what should be used straight without adding any distilled water. Obviously, you may do what you wish and use whatever you want, but I will only use Toyota's red stuff in all my newer (last 15 years or so) vehicles.

BTW- our recently purchased 2015 RX had a coolant level just slightly below the "low" mark on the overflow tank. No front end--or any other end--damage. It hasn't moved since I re-filled it.

Clutchless

I agree that you should not mix anything else with the Toyota Red Long Life coolant or you will shorten its 10 year life. There are several different coolant chemistry formulas used by different manufacturers and not all are compatible. Nor are all the universal coolants compatible with everything. Toyota Long Life Red is an OAT type coolant. It does not contain silicates or phosphates.
Also do not ever put DEXCOOL in a Toyota as it will sludge up and damage the gaskets etc.

Here is more data than you probably want to know: http://www.cgj.com/2013/05/20/what-a...an-i-mix-them/

Apparently Valvolinle/Zerex Asian coolant is supposed to work with Toyota coolant.

Here it is in a nutshell

There are only 3 main anti-freeze types/coolant types, at most 4 so far less than the types of car engines !

• Green anti-freeze/green coolant

These are the traditional type of anti-freeze most commonly used in North America. Their silicate and phosphate composition provides protection for aluminium and bare iron surfaces. They need to be changed every 30,000 miles or once every two to three years.

• OAT anti-freeze/OAT coolant

OAT stands for Organic Acid Technology.OAT anti-freeze contain ingredients such as 2-EHA, sebacate and other various organic acids. Unlike green anti-freeze, they generally do not contain silicates or phosphates. Usually, OAT-based coolants will be dyed a different colour to green anti-freeze. They must be changed once every five years or 150,000 miles.

• HOAT anti-freeze/HOAT coolant

HOAT stands for Hybrid OAT. These antifreeze use organic acids but not 2-EHA and usually include silicates to provide protection for aluminium surfaces. HOAT anti-freezes are used by many European car manufacturers, although they are also used by American companies such as Chrysler and Ford. A HOAT coolant will need to be changed every five years or 150,000 miles.

In recent years, anti-freeze manufacturers have been creating universal antifreeze that can be used with all vehicle types. These extended-life coolants only differ in colour. Some may be orange while others may be dyed blue or purple.

You noticed that we did not make any distinction between antifreeze and coolant in this section – for more information about the difference between coolant and antifreeze, please visit http://www.elf.com/en/advice-corner/coolant-and-antifreeze-faqs/what-is-coolant.html