Looking to upgrade from our much beloved 2003 RX-300 to a later RX-350 (year as yet undetermined).

To prepare our RX-300 for sale to a new owner, because it still had the original timing belt installed at present mileage 55,000 miles we had the T-Belt, Cam and Crank Seals, Water Pump and Bearings/Tensioners Replaced as well as the Valve Cover Gaskets and spark plugs to ensure a new owner would be happy with the car. It was expensive, but we felt since the car was so loyal and like-new, it deserved the service since a buyer would assume it to be "perfect." It cost us about $2500 all-in for those repairs.

The shop that did the work told us that the RX350 is also a good car, but prone to a VVT oil hose leaking, and the front crankshaft seal leaking. The hose is relatively minor, but they said the crankshaft seal requires removal of the engine to replace (no room to remove the harmonic balancer on the RX), and that we should expect about a $2500 cost for that seal replacement ALONE, and the seal is prone to failure at about 100,000mi or so. They said with the engine out they would also replace the VVT line, the water pump and accessory belt (not included in the $2500 estimate) as a precaution,

I know at 55,000mi our RX300 cam seals were moist (oil around them but not yet running down), but the crankshaft seal was still dry (of course the RX300 seals were easily accessible behind the timing belt). Our water pump had just started leaking a tiny bit from the weep-hole (unknown to us until the T-Belt cover was removed). The shop said this leakage is common in low-mileage older cars like ours.

The shop said that because we are looking for an "old" RX350 (possibly as much as 10 years old) even a low mileage one (we are looking for UNDER 40,000 mile example) is likely to need seals as they dry out from too few miles. They said that on "normally driven" car (10k-15k per year) these seals and the water pump can last well over 100,000mi, but on low mileage cars they often fail at half that mileage as ours did by 55,000 mi.

Curious how many problems you current owners have had especially with crankshaft seals and had to have your engines removed for seal replacement, and how much the job cost. We want a newer car, but don't want obviously to pay a premium for a like-new car only to have to spend a fortune to have the engine R+R'd soon after.

BTW I did a search regarding the crankshaft seal that returned NO Results, but I've had that before when I didn't word searches perfectly.

Thanks,
Bob

 

Your shop is incorrect about the crankshaft seals and has confused it with the somewhat rare timing cover oil leak. However the timing cover leak, while expensive to repair because it requires the engine to be removed, is also almost always such a tiny leak that all it does is make a very small part of the lower engine dirty below the leak. It will never cause you to add more oil. This same 3.5 liter - model 2GR-FE engine is used in many Toyota and Lexus vehicles.
See this thread https://www.clublexus.com/forums/rx-...over-leak.html

The VVT leak was addressed by the time the 3rd generation came out and is not an issue. Any cars that had problems were repaired long ago.
The only possible outstanding issue is if you had a 2010-2012 with the tow package and have not had the oil cooler rubber lines replaced with the metal lines. However this is an inexpensive repair.

 

Thanks-

I read the responses in the link and many were almost brand new cars, which surprised me. So it's a "flat" gasket apparently between the timing cover and the block interface?

This is from that link-

"Since posting oil leak problem on my RX350 problem was diagnosed by dealer. Timing chain cover is leaking and is currently being repaired. Dealer has had at least 50 RX350's with this problem. Have read other posts with same issue and wonder if my engine will require removal for the repair???"

Given that this dealer had 50 on site for the repair, it sounds almost universal. Also another post said, "Here is an explanation of the timing cover oil leak problem from an independent Toyota/Lexus shop in Minnesota. They claim the leak issue has been around since 2007 and was largely resolved by 2010. Surprised to see it in a 2015, but there are always a few with issues when they are making hundreds of thousands of these engines."

So if we look for a Post 2010 model year, it sounds like we should reduce the chances of getting a "leaker"? Obviously, we would look for the leak on any vehicle we examine, but given many dealerships "detail" their cars, evidence of such a leak would likely be washed away by solvent. It sounds like some leaks are worse than others, too. My wife is set on a particular color (Matador Red Metallica), the almost white leather interior, and maximum of 40,000mi, so I am sure the selection will be very small to pick from.

When we bought the 2003 RX-300 we now have, we waited a year to find one exactly with color/condition/miles, and flew 1500mi to examine and buy it, then drive it home. It was 8 years old at the time with 27k miles (Lexus Dealer and CarFax Documented Miles), but was a bit surprised at 55k it now needed seals, gaskets, and a water pump, but maybe it was because of the low miles we were told. But after 9 years of ownership, these were the ONLY (albeit pricey) repairs the car needed, and they were leak-related as well. I've owned two older CR-Vs (a 98 and a 99- I still have the '99 as a winter car since we never drive the Lexus when the weather would dirty or rust it) both with over 200k miles each and neither ever leaked a drop of oil or water in the combined 400,000 mi of ownership (nor any other repairs except for sway bar links), but then my German BMWs and MBs always developed leaks, so I guess it is just manufacturer priorities. We love the Lexus, though.

This is a reference to the Crankshaft Seal itself being a problem" and requiring engine removal:
TOYOTA/LEXUS CRANKSHAFT SEAL LEAKING

Thanks,
Bob

 

Still it is a relatively rare problem and statistically few vehicles have the timing cover leak.
My 2010 RX350 with 80,000 miles does not have it. I recently got a 2013 Toyota Sienna with 90,000 miles and it has the same engine & transmission and does not have the leak.
You mostly hear from the folks with problems and that skews your perception as this is one of the most reliable vehicles available.
I would worry more about the maintenance history of a used vehicle.
Go to https://drivers.lexus.com/lexusdrivers/
sign up and enter the VIN of any vehicle you may purchase and you can see the dealer service history. This is a great addition to checking the CarFax.

 

Thanks- That is reassuring.

We would HATE to go from the frying pan to the fire by switching from the RX300 to the RX350 (though now at least we have decided to keep the RX300 in the family by my adopting it as my own car).

That said, my wife said she would be resentful if she got a newer RX350 that became troublesome and she had to look at her old RX300 on my side of the garage ticking along trouble-free. Her expression told me she wasn't kidding, so I am comforted to hear it's a relatively infrequent problem. An oil seep (especially one that might be remedied externally) is not a huge deal. The crankshaft seal is another matter (see the Babcock link I included), but hopefully it is also exceedingly rare.

At least with the RX300 all such seals and gaskets are easily accessed and changeable given they had to leave room to access the timing belt.

I have a good friend who owns a BMW shop, and on the newer ones, you have to drop the entire subframe to access the oil pan gasket, which typically starts leaking at about 130k miles. If it's the X-Drive AWD the axles run THROUGH the oil pan making it even more complicated. He could almost make his living JUST changing those gaskets since almost all end up leaking. On the X-Drive, the local dealership charges $2800, and he gets $2300 (half that for the RWD models). Older BMWs used to be GOOD. My 635CSi has 268k on it and it's bullet-proof. Just changed a head gasket and the cross-hatching on the cylinder walls was still like new. Changed out the original clutch last year after 265k and no rear main or transmission input seals leaking (though we changed both as a precaution). I would not own a newer one (past about 2000) though.

Lexus and Toyota are SO much less needy, and I'm glad that the RX-350 will likely be trouble-free for my wife if we can find the "right" one.

Thanks for your inputs!
Bob

 

I dream of buying a restored late 80s E30 coupe that has been restored and modified. I browse Bring a Trailer dot com and they are out there. One day. Many many years ago in the last century I owned 2 BMW 2002's a 1968 and a 1971. Both had engine problems and the 68 was a huge rustbucket until it got rear ended and totaled.

 

For all that its worth I have a story about my timing cover leak on my 08 RX350. The dealer told me that my 08 rx350 had timing cover leak at 120k miles. Never had to fill it up with oil and kind of forgot about it. Just recently at 240k miles a mechanic told me I had a crank shaft seal leak. Again, I do not plan to follow up on it. I dont know how to distinguish between timing cover and crankshaft seal leak. All I know is every 5k miles, my oil dip stick is at the same level.

 

The e30 is a magnificent car and now much sought after. The M20 engine in the 325i is a reliable, simple engine that routinely goes 300k with minimal maintenance, timing belts excepted, but routine on most engines.

Rust is not a significant problem unless you live in salt-belt states. Her in the PNW I routinely see mid 80's e30s with essentially ZERO rust. I have an '86 635CSi in mint condition (zero rust, no dash cracks) and running like new (265k - just replaced the head gasket as it was externally leaking an oil weep after a rebuild at 150k, but original cylinder cross hatching at 265k). This is NOT atypical for good-climate e30s and e24s and e28s).

A NICE e30 couple (325is) will bring up to $25k in BAT. A friend has a primo e28 535i (water cooled turbo) in exceptional shape that sold too cheaply at $35k (I sold my similar condition e28 535is in 2002 for only $9500). Too rich for my blood.

That said, Toyotas and Lexus are typically less "needy" than even older BMWs. New BMWs, forget it. They are junk in comparison to older BMWs (beyond e36 and e39).

Just my opinion based on 50 years of turning wrenches.

Bob

 

The timing cover leak is more of a weep, than a leak. From what I’ve read it’s not like you’ll have a puddle in your garage, just a damp spot on the area. Toyota didn’t use a gasket, instead a squeeze tube liquid sealant. Well apparently it didn’t work very well but they kept using it for years. The warranty repair was a huge engine out job. When the dealers not footing the bill the repair is usually to goop more sealant on the outside seam to keep it from seeping. At your mileage I’d continue doing what your doing and just continue to monitor the oil levels.

 

Dealers have no mercy. The "leak" is likely a "seep" or "weep". NO seal won't pass a number of oil molecules of oil as the shaft rotates.

If you cannot see it on a dipstick in 5000 miles, you don't need a new seal- you merely need to wash your engine one in a while.

I sold an '06 e90 BMW 325i recently in excellent shape (8 out of 10 condition, 135k miles, no lights, everything working splendidly) I sold her for only $3000 (she has a terminal condition and her dad implored me to "Do God's work" by selling it 40% below retail and guilt got the better of me) . The buyer a month later had a flat and had it towed to a BMW dealer (stealer), and they told her the flat would cost $185 to fix, and did a "Courtesy" full inspection on the car. Mind you, no LEAKS, no DTCs, ran like a scalded ape, 80% tire tread, new brake rotors and pads. She called me FURIOUS that the dealer said it would take $13,600 to "make it right."

After 50 years in the business (I operate a small indie import shop in semi-retirement) I think most dealerships are thieves. I apologize to those dealerships that are honest and moral, but unfortunately you are IMHO a minority.), I've come to believe that the chief motivator of most shops is profit (I get it), but even today shops can make decent money without victimizing customers.

I posted further up I bought my wife's 2003 RX300 (55k miles) after she found a mint 2013 RX350 w/ 40k miles (she wanted lower miles but was unable). She paid $23k, or $10k less than a lightly equipped new Toyota RAV4 and $20k less than a new Venza a friend just bought, and she LOVES it. I replaced the timing belt, water pump, cam seals, drive belts,plugs, and valve cover gaskets on the RX 300 just because they were 18 yrs old (snugging the valve cover bolts probably would have stopped the cover leak), and it operates as new. On the other hand I have a Mercedes SLK 230 with 44k miles and it's perfect as well, and needs NOTHING, but over time I still think the Lexus will be less costly to operate.

Monitor your gasket seep, but don't fix what likely isn't broke.

As far as your "leak," a crankshaft leak is usually consider a "rear main seal" leak vs. a timing cover leak (front). Of the two, the rear main seal leak is far more concerning since it would require an engine or transmission removal to remedy.

Bob

 

To illustrate my post above regarding dealerships trolling for "upsell business," just yesterday my wife called from our winter place in AZ where she is visiting our grandkids telling me that the dealership she took the '06 Dodge Grand Caravan with only 54,000 mi to for a discounted oil change notified her of several MUST REPAIR NOW Critical Safety Items.

Beside telling her that 5mm of brake pad thickness is unsafe, and that a coolant reservoir level 1/4" below the midpoint between "Min and Max" indicated a leak that needed to be investigated, and that age-checked outer tie rod end grease boots (not leaking) would lead to wear and loss of steering if not replaced, they advised her that one of the rear shocks was leaking, and that "on certain roads this could lead to a loss of control of the vehicle." They provided an email with photos of the "dangers," and this is the one of the "leaking" shock absorber that they said could cause a serious accident with the grandkids onboard. LEAK?? REALLY??
Click: Unsafe Leaking Shock Absorber

 

About five years ago I was driving my trusty 1999 Ram in the area of our local Ram dealership so I stopped in to see if they still could get the black flexible horn pad that fits over the steering wheel airbag (this era of Ram horn pads was infamous for starting to break down and getting very sticky to the touch after 15 years or so). Not only did they quote me more than $400 for a new horn pad but they also compiled a list of "must-do" repair estimates including everything from suspension work to new brakes to a transmission flush. The total cost of their "must-do" repair list added up to be more than my truck was worth at the time. I just stuffed their estimate sheet in my pocket, laughed at the service advisor, and drove home shaking my head. I never did replace the sticky horn pad - my no-cost solution was to tightly cover it with Saran Wrap. Now I can blow the horn without getting black sticky goo on my hand....