Using external inverter for camping with 450H
01-24-21, 05:16 AM
#1
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Using external inverter for camping with 450H
New owner of 2013 450H. Looking for suggestions on the best way to utilize external inverter attached to 450H battery to supply a small amount of electricity to campsite. Would also like to understand what the appropriate car ignition setting (AC, Drive) would be appropriate while inverter is attached. I had an non-hybrid Acura mdx prior to my 450H, and I attached my inverter to the 12volt batter under the hood and just had my car running.
At a minimum, I would only need a few 100 watts of power for 4-5 hours for some camping lights and recharging some phones. Ideally, a solution with a stronger inverter to power some other equipment would be nice if possible. I realize I can use lighter attachment for the inverter in the car, but looking for a more elegant solution, one that may allow me to keep the doors closed. I have no problem if the engine comes on during the usage, but I am hoping the NmH battery will give me the juice I need for the first few hours?
I want to thank everyone ahead of time for the "just by a generator" replies.
At a minimum, I would only need a few 100 watts of power for 4-5 hours for some camping lights and recharging some phones. Ideally, a solution with a stronger inverter to power some other equipment would be nice if possible. I realize I can use lighter attachment for the inverter in the car, but looking for a more elegant solution, one that may allow me to keep the doors closed. I have no problem if the engine comes on during the usage, but I am hoping the NmH battery will give me the juice I need for the first few hours?
I want to thank everyone ahead of time for the "just by a generator" replies.
01-24-21, 07:31 PM
#2
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If trunk access will be easy, hook up the inverter to the 12V in the back. Easy enough for temporary hookup (doing a temp hookup under the hood would be more troublesome as you'd have to remove and replace the engine covers). You could probably run the 12V wires straight out the back and just gently close the trunk on them if you keep them away from the naughty bits like the latch.
Then, simply turn the vehicle on (Ready Mode! , not just ignition on). In ready mode, the engine will start and run for a few minutes before shutting off, but the 12v system will stay fully powered by the hybrid battery. When the hybrid battery draws down, the engine will start again to charge it back up. The engine will cycle on and off to keep the hybrid battery charged. Make sure to turn off all other loads inside (HVAC especially).
I can't speak to how much wear and tear this will put on the hybrid battery. If your load will cause a lot of charge/discharge cycles and generate heat, or barely any and no issue. You could try and see I suppose. There is no way I know of to power the 12V system without having the vehicle in Ready Mode and be willing to let it start the engine when it needs to.
Then, simply turn the vehicle on (Ready Mode! , not just ignition on). In ready mode, the engine will start and run for a few minutes before shutting off, but the 12v system will stay fully powered by the hybrid battery. When the hybrid battery draws down, the engine will start again to charge it back up. The engine will cycle on and off to keep the hybrid battery charged. Make sure to turn off all other loads inside (HVAC especially).
I can't speak to how much wear and tear this will put on the hybrid battery. If your load will cause a lot of charge/discharge cycles and generate heat, or barely any and no issue. You could try and see I suppose. There is no way I know of to power the 12V system without having the vehicle in Ready Mode and be willing to let it start the engine when it needs to.
01-24-21, 08:13 PM
#3
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Going on the limb in answering the question. .. so please confirm or test.
450H -- the 12v battery is in the rear hatch area ..[100% sure on this one]
The accessory/cigarette lighter is switched [based on first gen RX experience] .. Will work in Accessory mode and run mode [Accessory mode is when you press the start/stop button once without applying brake. Run mode or "Ready" mode is when you press the start/stop button with the foot on the brake. "Ready" mode is like the engine running mode in say RX350.
If you connect the external load in "Accessory" mode, the 12v battery is not charged as the ICE is not turned on. If you leave the vehicle in this mode and drain the the 12v battery, after a while a message will pop up and the vehicle will be shut down [Please confirm or wait for others to confirm ... I [i]think I have experienced that]. You can get into a situation where the high voltage battery is discharged to a point where it will not be able to start the ICE.
As Andy suggested, keep the vehicle in "ready" mode and the ICE will come on and off to charge .. BUT ... make sure you do not shift to "N" as in this condition the high voltage battery is not charged ... a warning message will come up [This I have experienced].
Other things ... make sure the exhaust is facing downwind and chose where humans/pets will be. [the ICE shutdown may not make it obvious].
What should be the Max load? Going on the limb again ... 15Amps on the primary side [RX] --> 12 x15 -> 180 Watts. I would not push beyond 70% ~> 125 Watts. The further away from this number the better.
Salim
PS: The 12v battery is for the accessories and the computer to control the RX. You can jump it to recover the control. You don't want the high voltage battery to remain charged above the threshold. Even though you would not be using for traction [camped] but you need it to start the ICE -> that will charge up the 12v battery.
450H -- the 12v battery is in the rear hatch area ..[100% sure on this one]
The accessory/cigarette lighter is switched [based on first gen RX experience] .. Will work in Accessory mode and run mode [Accessory mode is when you press the start/stop button once without applying brake. Run mode or "Ready" mode is when you press the start/stop button with the foot on the brake. "Ready" mode is like the engine running mode in say RX350.
If you connect the external load in "Accessory" mode, the 12v battery is not charged as the ICE is not turned on. If you leave the vehicle in this mode and drain the the 12v battery, after a while a message will pop up and the vehicle will be shut down [Please confirm or wait for others to confirm ... I [i]think I have experienced that]. You can get into a situation where the high voltage battery is discharged to a point where it will not be able to start the ICE.
As Andy suggested, keep the vehicle in "ready" mode and the ICE will come on and off to charge .. BUT ... make sure you do not shift to "N" as in this condition the high voltage battery is not charged ... a warning message will come up [This I have experienced].
Other things ... make sure the exhaust is facing downwind and chose where humans/pets will be. [the ICE shutdown may not make it obvious].
What should be the Max load? Going on the limb again ... 15Amps on the primary side [RX] --> 12 x15 -> 180 Watts. I would not push beyond 70% ~> 125 Watts. The further away from this number the better.
Salim
PS: The 12v battery is for the accessories and the computer to control the RX. You can jump it to recover the control. You don't want the high voltage battery to remain charged above the threshold. Even though you would not be using for traction [camped] but you need it to start the ICE -> that will charge up the 12v battery.
Last edited by salimshah; 01-24-21 at 08:19 PM. Reason: PS
01-27-21, 08:29 PM
#4
I think there is plenty of room for an inverter mounted some where in the back. You can lift up the cover concealing the spare tire and see what space there is. Some space to the right of the tire. This is where the plug #1 is located for adding trailer lights. You could also run the wires out as if you were adding trailer lights on a regular car. The actual trailer plug, plug #2 is already under the car so this isn't a solution for running the wires.
If heat is a major part of using an invertor then you could run some wires from the battery (back, to the left of spare tire) through the sheet metal and mount the invertor under the back of the car.
Of course you could mount it in the engine compartment if you can find the wires to tap into. This has the advantage of not needing to run wires through your sheet metal but would be very far from the battery.
Using the car as those above described is a great advantage over how you used to do it. The car will start the engine on its own when needed and shut if off when not needed.
as an added feature I believe you can still charge various things from the car directly. Why power an invertor (12 volts DC to 120 volts AC) to then transform and rectify back into the low voltage dc needed by your phones ( and other chargables). those could be using the auxiliary sockets in the car. A usb in the center console?
Sorry for the center justification but hit it by accident and just had to try it out.
OH, bty just buy a battery They have batteries that can do the one time job of a generator now. Kind of like how you want to use the cars large battery.
but they are expensive!
If heat is a major part of using an invertor then you could run some wires from the battery (back, to the left of spare tire) through the sheet metal and mount the invertor under the back of the car.
Of course you could mount it in the engine compartment if you can find the wires to tap into. This has the advantage of not needing to run wires through your sheet metal but would be very far from the battery.
Using the car as those above described is a great advantage over how you used to do it. The car will start the engine on its own when needed and shut if off when not needed.
as an added feature I believe you can still charge various things from the car directly. Why power an invertor (12 volts DC to 120 volts AC) to then transform and rectify back into the low voltage dc needed by your phones ( and other chargables). those could be using the auxiliary sockets in the car. A usb in the center console?
Sorry for the center justification but hit it by accident and just had to try it out.
OH, bty just buy a battery They have batteries that can do the one time job of a generator now. Kind of like how you want to use the cars large battery.
but they are expensive!
05-27-21, 08:50 AM
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Large inverter in 450H hooked to battery in back
Was looking at a 3000 Watt inverter for camping and emergency use for my 2013 450H. I would be hooking it up to the 12V battery in the trunk area and only using it when the car is in "Ready" mode so the engine/hybrid battery keeps the 12V battery charged.
If I am using this inverter to its capacity (3000 Watts) will I have any issues drawing this many watts from the 12V battery if needed? Will it cause any damage or issues with my hybrid battery?
If I am using this inverter to its capacity (3000 Watts) will I have any issues drawing this many watts from the 12V battery if needed? Will it cause any damage or issues with my hybrid battery?
05-27-21, 01:53 PM
#6
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Was looking at a 3000 Watt inverter for camping and emergency use for my 2013 450H. I would be hooking it up to the 12V battery in the trunk area and only using it when the car is in "Ready" mode so the engine/hybrid battery keeps the 12V battery charged.
If I am using this inverter to its capacity (3000 Watts) will I have any issues drawing this many watts from the 12V battery if needed? Will it cause any damage or issues with my hybrid battery?
If I am using this inverter to its capacity (3000 Watts) will I have any issues drawing this many watts from the 12V battery if needed? Will it cause any damage or issues with my hybrid battery?
Basing my answer on 3000 watts continues (sustained) ... leads me to back of the envelop calculations ... I (current needed) = Watts/Voltage = 3000/12 (approximating) = 250 Amps which I really doubt that can be sustained by the built in inverter of RX. I am guessing (<- key word) that the charging system tops out around 30amps (peak) and more like less 8 amps sustained.
Now on the other hand if you have a battery bank and run off the inverter off them [with heavy gauge wire .. roughly the size of a thumb thickness] you can run this system till the batteries get depleted. Then you can charge your battery bank [limiting the current] over much longer time. Analogy I have is you can drain out a tank full of water with a large pipe, and then fill it up with a smaller pipe but over a longer period of time.
Salim
06-17-21, 03:23 PM
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I don't know the exact specifics for the Lexus but the Prius had a 100 AMP DC to DC converter so it could provide 1200 Watts of DC power so it should be able to cover 1000 Watts of A/C power with enough to spare to cover the car's needs.
I would be careful exceeding that as I have heard people blowing the 125 AMP fuse in the DC/DC converter which makes the car a very expensive paper weight until you get it towed to the dealer for replacement.
I would be careful exceeding that as I have heard people blowing the 125 AMP fuse in the DC/DC converter which makes the car a very expensive paper weight until you get it towed to the dealer for replacement.
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