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Quick question I'm hoping some can chime in on. We have always had Honda Pilots, a couple actually, for several years and took to the local Honda Dealer in town we purchased from and they've always been non-gouging, actually troubleshoot (not always rip and replace) issues, would tell us when things were upcoming to be needed or we thought needed and they would say to hold off, would see us quickly and do exactly as expectations had been set.
We've since gotten a 2013 RX350 and it seems to have been previously always brought to the Lexus Dealer by the prior owner, just about every 5000 miles per the Lexus service records available online. We have had zero problems with this car to date. Last time in for service we were told that the Front Rotors were very very bad and would need to be entirely replaced, along with new pads because they're so worn they were gouging the rotors..., but that the back Rotors were fine and could just be resurfaced and don't need new pads. Then they mentioned that the Battery terminal cables were awful and have corrosion.
Prior to this routine checkup and oil change (about 5000 miles ago), the car was also taken to this same Lexus dealer and were given green lights for everything (including the brakes)....and on top of it, the last time there we had the Battery Replaced with a new. So why are we magically needing new Battery Terminal Cables? ..and why are we magically needing new Rotors?
This car does have 110,000 miles and I don't see evidence of Rotor resurfacing or Front Rotor Replacements in the Lexus service history, but I'm not certain how perfect the Lexus history logs are either as I see some minor incorrectly entered inaccurate mileage notations in it etc..
My question - I intend on taking this car to my Honda Dealer to inspect the same things and have their opinion - and I'm assuming they'd do the work if really needed. If I continued to take this Lexus RX350 to the Honda Dealer for Service work, that we bought from this Honda Dealer as a used car for service - are there things with the Lexus RX350 that the Honda Dealer is likely not to service/touch? Are there things with the RX350 where it is like, yea - only have Lexus do that type of work - to also be aware of? I know there were a few things like that with the Honda Pilots where you'd specifically want the Dealer to do it...
Here are some pictures... we had them take... for your viewing pleasure. I realize touch/feel could also be important - but we are having no braking issues, no shuddering at the pedals, no shuddering at the drivers steering wheel, no grinding noises, no creaks, no prior brake pad clearly worn and gouging making the whistling noise...and as far as the Battery Terminal Cable corrosion... no problems with car starts as it has a new battery 5000 miles ago!
Unfortunately - to get a good view of the pads I think I've got to pop the tires off and I'd rather not do that, from what I'm able to see visibly without doing that, I'd say there is still some pad, not sure if the desired amount left or not. I also wonder now, if these are pads from the Lexus dealer (and with 100,000 miles on the car they of course wouldn't be originals) - but maybe these don't possibly have the squeal tab? I see pictures of what that looks like and I'm not convinced these have this - is that highly highly unlikely?
But maybe these will help some... not sure but i doubt it...
Sad to hear about your experience. Since you own the vehicle and pay for service, it is your right to go to any shop of your choice. *
Issues can arise, if you have prepaid service contract and you go to another shop and ask for reimbursement. [mostlikely your claim will be denied unless there are unavoidable circumstances or you did not secure pre-authirisation].
When you go for regular service [which usually has insect brake pads and rotation of tires], you should get a statement from the dealer like 12mm thickness or 50% etc.
If you go in for a repair, like replace battery, then the brake visual inspection may be overlooked.
Talk to the service manager. If the RX is new to you, get a print out of service records and match line item against inspect brake pads.
Salim
* Certain vehicle manufacturer(s) refuse to share service data with other repair facility, so your repair may not be to spec. Toyota/Lexus shares the specs for fee, so please ensure that your mechanic has access to them. Lexus/Toyota will stick to OEM parts.
That battery looks a lot older than 5 months, more like almost 5 years. It has corrosion and tons of dirt on top, same with the cables, I doubt they really installed a new battery as they should have cleaned the cables. Check the date on the battery, they all have a date label for warranty purposes. Regarding your brakes, any shop can check and work on them, they are the same as the brakes on 10 million other Toyota and Lexus vehicles and most other Japanese cars with floating calipers. Very easy to work on.
Here is a link to the Lexus Drivers Site that is run by Lexus. Join for free, then enter your VIN and you can see the Lexus dealer service history for the vehicle.
https://drivers.lexus.com/lexusdrivers
In Virginia we have to get an annual safety inspection. A trick my local inspector uses to check brake pads without removing the wheels is to have a small mirror on a telescoping stick, like a selfy stick size that he can place through the wheel spoke gaps and get a view of the brake pad thickness from a better angle.
If the transmission has never had the fluid changed I would get that done, same with the coolant. The Honda dealer should not do it as they don't know-how on a Lexus (it is complicated) and they don't have the right fluid. You need a Lexus or a Toyota dealer. However, once you join the Lexus Drivers Site you can check if it has ever been changed and all the other maintenance. FYI the RX is basically a Toyota Highlander mechanically which is why any Toyota dealer can also work on it or an independent Toyota specialist shop.
If someone else other than a Lexus dealer replaces the rotors insist on OEM parts. I had someone else replace all 4 rotors and they warped in just over a year.
Thanks for your replies everyone! I noticed one other thing - when we had it serviced for regular maintenance in December of 2020, when it had 90,000 miles they said the brake fluid was contaminated and recommended changing it, and we did. On our regular maintenance visit in December of 2021, when it had 105,000 miles (15,000 miles later) they said again that the Brake Fluid was dark and contaminated and recommended changing it....so did it again.. Is this a typical normal interval for this car? (I just don't recall doing that regularly like that for our Honda Pilots over the years)
On the Battery - it definitely was replaced and isn't 5 years old (haha..) and the Mfg. Date is current. The old Battery they said was an Exide 24FX that was cracked and corroded and they replaced with a Lexus Battery, they pointed out that the Exide battery isn't something they installed (which I can understand, many times when a battery fails you've got to use whatever you can get your hands on that day to resolve from wherever and whoever). So I don't know why the Battery Terminal Cables look so horrendous, unless they just didn't change them when they installed their preferred battery (how silly if so).
Thanks for the tip with the Mirror on a stick to see the brake pads - will do that tomorrow!!
On your tip about changing the Transmission Fluid - that is interesting you mention - when we first bought the car we asked actually the Lexus and the Toyota repair service what they recommend about this car as far as repairs and one of the things I recall them specifically mentioning that one thing that was great about the RX350 is that the Transmission case is sealed and that you don't need to change the Transmission Fluid ever? So your comment has me concerned. (haha - like really - which is it...or is this one of those debatable topics between folks...chicken and egg thing...)
Looks like Coolant was replaced in 2016 when the car had 44,104 miles...
We did find the Lexus Drivers service history when we first got the car and that is how we determined the prior owner had been bringing it in at every scheduled maintenance in the maintenance manual book. However, I don't see prior brake pad or rotor resurfacing notes anywhere, so not sure if they didn't use Lexus Dealer to do, or if Lexus Service notes are just spotty as to what they did. Only a reference early on in its life they actually noted the % pad left, any other times they don't provide details like that.
Lexus wants to charge $800 for Resurface back Rotors, and actual Replacement of Front Rotors and replacement of Front pads only with whatever they recommend along with replacing the corroded Battery Terminal Cables.
Appreciate all the comments and insights! This is a great forum with great activity and users that are helpful - regardless of skill level/knowledge of my own!
No such animal as "lifetime" fluid of ANY type in ANY vehicle.
Some vehicle manufacturers recommend replacing brake fluid every two years. I believe that is usually overkill. Properly-functioning brakes are indeed critical so it is ultimately your call.
If you cannot DIY your own maintenance, avoid the dealerships and find a good local independent shop familiar with Toyota vehicles. You will save significant money by doing so.
Brake fluid: yep, most manufacturers I've seen ( both foreign and domestic) recommend brake fluid flush q2 yrs or 30k miles. I personally stick to that, it's all about risk you're willing to take. I do my own though, so ymmv. I helped a friend do a brake job on his Toyota 4Runner, he hadn't changed the fluid in 4 years. The fluid was in dark green color initially coming out, that is some significant corrosion going on internally. The color in the reservoir was just brownish so not the best indicator just looking at the reservoir. Brake fluid is going to absorb moisture, no matter what.
My experience with our local Lexus dealer is almost the same, they way over recommend services. One time they told me my brake pads needed replacing, being only at 2 mm but when I got home and looked at them, they're actually four maybe five millimeters. That was back in the day when my spouse took the RX in routinely. Since then they pretty much don't mess with us since they know I check. However I've not been the Lexus dealer with this 2010 rx350 or any dealer since it passed 100,000 mi. (We had an extended warranty). I got 151,000 now.
I'd still be interested to know how your pads actually look. Unfortunately, the pictures you provided don't tell me much on the pad condition.
By the way, I do a transmission fluid exchange about every other oil change. There's a big thread on the subject where I think I provided pictures when I first did it at 90,000 mi. My only regret is that I did not do it sooner like at 60,000. Both are Toyota and Lexus dealers in my part of town Don't recommend transmission fluid change. Apparently they don't find it worth the investment for the BG machine, amongst other limiting factors.
Please read/scan/browse the little booklet "service and warranty". You can even get to to it from Lexus website.
This book lists every service item at prescribed milage/time. Your dealer may upsell or skimp but this is what Lexus recommends. You can alway do more or elect to defer/skimp,
For brake pads, the OEM has scalloped edge. I never break out a micrometer to measure, but simply look for the scallop. If the pads have worn down to a point where the scallop is gone, I replace the pads.
The transmission is not sealed, it just lacks a dipstick and uses an overflow tube inside the drain plug to measure the fluid level. It overflows at a specific temperature when the level is correct. You need to know what you are doing, or have a fluid exchange machine, or do a cold drain and fill of some of the fluid. That is why some dealers will and some won't do this maintenance. The service manual maintenance schedule states that under severe service conditions the transmission fluid should be changed at 60,000 miles!
If you call all the local Toyota and Lexus dealers you should be able to find one that will change the transmission fluid. My local Lexus and Toyota dealers both offer that service. That is the one thing I would prefer to have a dealer do unless you find a Toyota specialist nearby who offers that service.
I wonder if your dealer is actually doing what they claim due to the terrible condition of the battery cables and the fact that your brake fluid was so dark. Even after a few years your brake fluid should just be a dark yellow if it had actually been changed previously.
I think you need to find a great independent Toyota/Lexus specialist shop. I would not trust that dealer and they are charging WAY TOO MUCH MONEY for a simple brake pad and rotor replacement job. Any local independent import repair shop can replace your brakes for less, call around, use Google and Yelp to find recommended shops, ask your friends where they take their vehicles etc.
Just an update - story took a twist. We questioned the original inspection Lexus dealer did because the prior inspection 5,000 miles earlier from them didn't indicate any sort of problem with the brakes that they were recommending be replaced and the battery terminal cable that was corroded, we just replaced the battery new on last visit per their recommendation.
We ended up taking it to the Honda Dealer in town that we do trust to take 2nd look at, and they said that the car had about 80% pad life left on the front. The original Lexus report (that we had to fight in order for them to provide) had it in the Yellow at 5mm each for the LF/RF and LR/RR. (the prior lexus report showed 6mm each, and in the Green 5,000 miles earlier) The Service Advisor made it seem like it was needing more immediate attention and only until we pointed out that it was in the green previously did they back down and say it wasn't entirely necessary to do right now.
The Honda Dealer put the brake pads at 6.5 to 7mm on front and back, they also said they wouldn't replace the front rotors at all and that the back rotors wouldn't need replaced but just resurfaced. They didn't recommend that anything would be needed at this time at all really. Also Lexus wanted to charge like $119 bucks to replace corroded battery terminal cables (i guess they didn't clean them up or replace them when we got a new battery from them 5,000 miles earlier or clean up the existing.....), the Honda Dealer just cleaned up the original cables for us and put an inhibitor on them for free.
Also - I was incorrect, it wouldn't have been an $800 brake job, apparently that was only for the parts - it would have been $1,035 Total ($635 Front Pads and New front Rotors) and $399.95 (Back Pads and Resurface Rotors) - I guess the $800 would have only been the parts costs...
Lexus did offer to come pickup the car to redo the inspection of this vehicle. To correct it and have a proper baseline and so they could get it right on their end and do some internal training in the process.. We also determined on our own that somehow the tires how grown since the last time it was inspected 5,000 miles ago (grin) - going from 6/32" to 7/32" (grin) - we pointed that out to the Service Advisor and he said he had also caught that as well when she reviewed it...
Also - I forgot one other upsell the Lexus Service Advisor had for us - it was the hood hyrdraulic lift gasket (I'm botching what they called it/what it is) could be replaced - we were advised all the Lexus really need that over time. It's what keeps the hood open, which wasn't having any problem. Me thinks the Service Advisors make commission....
Just remember the saying - Ain't nobody going to help you, but you...
just in case it is not known, the labor rates are min 30 mins and rounded up [half-hour]. So battery terminal clean-up will be 1/2hr labor [~$75 now?].
Salim
PS: My expectation is that a good shop would not cheat, but they will try to upsell. Observation is that Lexus will not suggest the least expensive way and would gladly replace items [I attribute that to them not try as go and have no subsequent issues]. This ends up costing the customer extra. To me that is the business model where the customer pays more, but expects no lingering issues.
Last edited by salimshah; 06-03-22 at 10:12 AM.
Reason: ps
just in case it is not known, the labor rates are min 30 mins and rounded up [half-hour]. So battery terminal clean-up will be 1/2hr labor [~$75 now?].
Salim
PS: My expectation is that a good shop would not cheat, but they will try to upsell. Observation is that Lexus will not suggest the least expensive way and would gladly replace items [I attribute that to them not try as go and have no subsequent issues]. This ends up costing the customer extra. To me that is the business model where the customer pays more, but expects no lingering issues.
Thanks for that Salim - the Honda Dealer mechanic also explained that for something like the Battery Terminal Cable vs. Cleaning up - he said he gets paid X for whatever the specific job is and they have a certain amount of time the Dealer thinks that should take, if it takes the Mechanic a lot longer to do it, that is on the Mechanic and he loses out on other net new things he could have been doing that day (incentive for him to do within the Dealers prescribed timelines) - but he said for the Battery Terminal corrosion, it is possible they don't get paid unless they replace the entire Battery Terminal Cable (vs. cleaning it up)... so basically the mechanic knows it could just need some cleaning and 'could' do that and explained he might do that for a customer that is in there all the time, but the Dealer hasn't a way to charge for it (or doesn't want to) so they just rip and replace and suggest new Battery Terminal Cables... like you say, it costs more for the customer, assures the Dealer doesn't have subsequent follow-on issues about it..) - Which many times I may be fine with as I'm not always trying to save every possible nickel...in fact I kind of hate it when I want something addressed and an independent mechanic is wanting you to just kind of monitor the situation, or live with the squeal to see if it clears up. However at a minimum I want the car safe as possible, I don't want to be paying for entirely unnecessary things and I do want the price to be inline with others and I do want to leverage experienced mechanics that do this much more than myself and know what to look for and have the proper tools to do it, can do it quicker than I ever could etc...
All dealer service advisors work on commission.
They were referring to the hood support struts which are the skinny black things on either side of the hood (and rear hatch) that help lift and hold them up. They do wear out over time and many of us have replaced them.
You can buy the hood (& rear hatch) support struts via the information in these links and install them yourself in 10 minutes. If the links do not sufficient have instructions, then youtube has many such videos. These hood support or hatch support struts are the same on every Toyota and Lexus. If you do not want to install them yourself, any local gas station repair shop can do it for a lot cheaper than Lexus.
https://www.clublexus.com/forums/rx-...ch-struts.html
05-27-22, 04:44 PM
2013 RX350 - Getting Serviced at Honda Dealer
