rayaans

Just got an email from my Lexus source in the UK

He has just been driving the RX for the past 3 days in Austria along with competitors. These competitors are the NEW XC90, BMW X5, RR Sport and Mercedes ML (or whatever its called now).

He works for Lexus in financing and is not a salesmen, therefore no salesman tactics here. He also owns a BMW M3

First of all he said the driving dynamics are very good - get this - dynamically it is better than ALL of them. Quite impressive if that's true although I cant see the biased UK reviewers saying that anytime soon. It is much quieter than the current model too down to insane amounts of sound deadening gone into the vehicle. The steering has been vastly improved also.

He mentioned in the email that the ride and handling has been improved, so best of both worlds but he was most impressed with how quiet the car was compared to a current RX and may actually be pipping the current LS.

He drove both the 450h and 200t. Both provided enough power but the 450h was a clear winner, being better suited to the vehicle as the 200t has to work fairly hard. 350 is only going to Russia and the Balkans in Europe so he didn't bother with that one. The hybrid system has not been updated but its been paired with the new 3.5l from the RX350 albeit its running atkinson cycle. The best bit in his view - the transmission has been changed. Its running a new CVT which feels like a conventional automatic, making the driving experience much better than before.

Quality of the finish was impeccable too and on par with the Volvo. He mentioned that the ML system is a massive improvement over the current gen. He tried counting up the speakers, said there seems to be about 18 but he might have missed some but the sound coming from it is very good and worth more than the asking price which should be around (£/$1k). Lexus appears to be on to a winner with this one, cant wait to drive it myself!

ericsan13

Sad to hear that the hybrid system has not been updated - hopefully this is not the case for the production model.

The new CVT applies to the 450h? Did he say what has changed?

Thanks,
Eric

dchar

I wish he test drove the RX350 since that one is the one I'm interested in. The driving dynamics might be better too since it has less weight. The 2.0L turbo doesn't seem like it would be enough to power such a large car. Did your source specify if he drove the FWD or AWD models?

That's encouraging to hear that refinement is improved. Looking forward to test driving it.

SW17LS

I don't buy that a front heavy FWD layout RX can be "dynamically better" than an X5 or RR Sport.

wETcOASTER

Too funny, using 7 yr old JD Power data.
Actually BMW is now rated above Lexus and Toyota regarding quality and reliability.

I just love reading all of these anecdotal stories about how Aunty Betty's 2001 BMW 3 series was so troublesome which obviously means all BMW's are unreliable, LOL!

Actually I own 2 2010 BMW's and a 2010 Lexus RX350 which wifey drives and based on my real world experiences, both the BMW's and Lexus have been equally reliable.

http://www.usatoday.com/story/money/...ults/28865109/

Latest "2015" JD Power data

Average problems per 100 vehicles of brand's whole line:

Porsche 80
Kia 86
Jaguar 93
Hyundai 95
Infiniti 97
BMW 99
Chevrolet 101
Lincoln 103
Lexus 104
Toyota 104
Buick 105
Ford 107
Ram 110
Honda 111
Mercedes-Benz 111
Industry Average 112
Audi 115
GMC 115
Dodge 116
Volvo 120
Nissan 121
Cadillac 122
MINI 122
Mazda 123

SW17LS

Thats initial quality, thats not a reliability measure. Thats overall how satisfied owners are with their vehicles as new.

This is the Vehicle Dependability Survey, this is a measure of reliability:

wETcOASTER

Ummmmmm , its a quality study.

The twin South Korean brands, Kia and Hyundai, have moved to the top of the pack in the latest J.D. Power and Associates Initial Quality Study, the most closely watched gauge of quality in auto manufacturing.

The Kia brand ranked second behind the top brand, Porsche, which took first for the third year in a row. And the Hyundai brand moved up to fourth place, right behind third-place Jaguar. Both Kia and Hyundai are owned by the same company, Hyundai.

The index is based on responses from 84,000 drivers who have bought or leased a 2015 car or truck model. It is based on defects or problems in the first 90 days of ownership. Another Power study covers how vehicles hold up in the longer term.

SW17LS

Its an initial quality study, not a RELIABILITY study. It ranks issues with cars but also whether or not someone is satisfied with the layout of the vehicle, the infotainment system operation, etc.

You can't infer because a brand ranks highly in IQS that it will rank highly in VDS, in fact just look at these two lists...it doesn't mean that at all.

Right...but they're very low when it comes to VDS.

Bolded for emphasis. What we are saying is that overall BMW does't have nearly as good a track record as Lexus when it comes to long term reliability...and the VDS study data supports that overwhelmingly.

Understanding what these studies mean and are measuring is important.

Bobs859

Lexus has gotten a little lazy and arrogant while other brands like Porsche and BMW and KIA have stepped it up. Lexus has great customer service but they have just as many problems as other brands.

rayaans

50% of the power can be shuffled to the back wheels. In dynamic driving the system shifts 50% to the rear like an Audi does as it'll be detecting slip nearly all the time.

Being RWD isn't everything, cars like the new Honda Type R are FWD, runs rings around most cars in terms of handling.

All versions tested were AWD. We don't get FWD versions in the UK.

Also the 200t is much lighter than the 350 unit so it's not exactly front heavy either, with the 450h, the batteries in the back make up for the extra weight in the front

Bobs859

Amazing, it didn't take long for the Koreans (KIA) to surpass Lexus on quality. Lexus is way down the list. Porsche, BMW and even KIA surpass Lexus. Still surprised at the results though. Shame for Lexus reputation of quality.

SW17LS

You're taking JD Power's definition of "quality" too literally. The IQS results are very volatile, one of the big things right now that screws them up is navigation systems. For instance when you look at when Ford rolled out the Sync system, their IQS went through the floor and then the next year it was back up.

You don't understand the physics at work here. I understand that under slippage 50% of the power can be shuffled to the back. That does nothing for handling, thats just for traction. When you look at Lexus' AWD sedans, 70% of the power comes from the back, and 50% can be shuffled to the front. Thats the opposite of the RX, because the RX at its core is a FWD vehicle with a transverse mounted engine.

A FWD vehicle with a transverse mounted engine has the engine mounted IN FRONT of the front wheels. a RWD vehicle with a longditudinally mounted engine has the engine behind the rear wheels. FWD vehicles are inherently front heavy, because the weight of the engine and transmission is out there ahead of the front wheels. This is a killer for handling, when you go into a corner all that weight at the front causes significant front end weight shift and understeer.

Whether the 200t is lighter or not overall makes no difference, what matters is the distribution of that weight. Adding more weight to the rear of the hybrid isn't a solution, as weight in general is detrimental to handling. The 450h will not handle as well as a 350 or 200t.

Theres a reason why race cars, track cars, high end sports cars, and high end luxury cars are all almost always RWD. Theres a reason why Audi, who is the exception, even on their FWD cars employs a longitudinal layout vs a transverse layout...which is expensive and unique.

You can make a FWD car feel good, light and sporty, but when you really push it, the RWD layout is always going to be superior...thats just because of physics. Anybody that says a FWD vehicle with a transversely mounted engine is "dynamically superior" to a RWD vehicle with a longitudinal engine doesn't understand what makes a vehicle "dynamically superior".

The X5 has 49/51 F/R weight distribution. A Range Rover Sport has 52/48, The RX is 58/42. There is no way a vehicle with 58% front weight distribution is "dynamically superior" to a vehicle with 49% front weight distribution, even outside of the other dynamic limitations of FWD vs RWD, and the chassis itself.

rayaans

The chassis is all new though isn't it? They might have changed it a bit, Eg distributed most of the aluminium at the front and steel towards the rear to try and offset the weight in the front.

All I know is, my source says the new RX is more agile and controllable compared to X5 and ML on a slalom and gets round faster than an XC90 and RR Sport. Take that how you will but he drives an M3 so I expect some degree of truth in it

SW17LS

There is nothing in any of the press released info that would make me conclude the chassis is all new, its derived from the previous RX and ultimately the Camry. Remember that its not a bespoke chassis, this is a derivative chassis. I'm sure its stiffened and improved, but its not going to be substantially different than the previous chassis.

Theres not a lot you can do to offset the weight distribution of a FWD vehicle. The engine and transmission are hanging out there in front of the front wheels...thats hard to overcome. Like I said, you can't just add weight without creating more problems...

Just because somebody "drives an M3" doesn't make them a professional driver or mean they even have any idea how a car should behave on a track. No way a FWD RX with 58% of the weight in the front goes through a slalom faster than a 49% front weighted X5.

Now, people don't buy an RX (or an X5) because of how it goes through a slalom, but we have to try to stay objective. The RX is not going to be class leading in handling because of the inherent drawbacks of its design.

GSteg

iTrader: (15)

Too early to tell, but the transmission shift points are not enough for me to jump into a new 450h if the rest of the drivetrain is 'old'. Hopefully the RX he drove were test mule of some sort because the 3RX hybrid system has been out for 6 years already. As far a noise goes, I would have to hear it myself. The 3RX wasn't particularly quiet so it's easy to be impressed.