1Louder

I'll report back for sure. What will be interesting is that my fronts do have a dark tint, but the rear is factory tint with a pretty clear film on it. I think if I understand your theory correctly, the front windows would be hotter to the touch than the back. I'll see if there is a difference.

Also, I'm not so sure about the claims of the factory glass. I read that same statistic, but the heat just pours through the front window - I'd be hard pressed to say there was any difference in heat between standing outside the car and then getting the sun through my front windshield. I could feel a difference on my shoulder driving home when the sun was shining through the new tints though. The heat felt less intense. Luckily we have some hot weather here (at least for a while), I'll pay more attention.

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I think your back windows are still going to feel hotter than the front, because the solid tint rears are absorbing more heat directly (that's my theory on it)... That ideally, for ceramic tint to effectively do what they say it does... you'd want to start with the least heat-absorbing window, and then tint that. If this all proves true I may do a clear ceramic on the front windshield, BUT... the super-hot rear windows have thrown a wrench in my ceramic love-fest. So now I have to know if the whole (high-end) tint thing is sort of a racket.

I have a couple possibilities so far:

1) In some other threads I've read the ceramic tint has to fully cure before the heat-blocking effects are felt. That's reasonable since there's moisture between the tint and the window, which has to wick-out (or evaporate or whatever you want to call it). That thread said it could take a month for this, but that's where I don't buy it.

2) It's possible that the tint-shop I went to isn't "fully honest" and didn't give me ceramic all the way around. In MANY threads people say "go to a reputable shop and you don't have to worry about it"... um... NO... dumb theory, stuff happens and human nature is always a possibility. They could be out of a particular tint (or low on it or whatever) and figure nobody would know the difference. I did go to a reputable place recommended by my dealer, and they were tinting mostly high-end (dealer) cars. I'd like to think that would ensure I got what I paid for, but again, when people online say, "there's no way to know"... in reference to anything scientific... that creates an OCD itch I have to scratch. So... yeah... we're going to know as soon as this solar meter arrives (and I have some time for a proper test).

3) It's also possible that I got exactly what I paid for and what's happening is this (this is my expectation and theory explained); I think the benefits of ceramic tint are probably being over-sold because there are many forms of heat, for this discussion the most important are radiation, conduction, and convection. While it's an obvious point, our tint is already inside the car. The question becomes, what heats the interior of our cars more? Something that absorbs heat on the dash/seats/floor... or something that absorbs heat directly on the window? Reflective films are clearly reflecting sunlight, but our charcoal films are doing what ANY black object does in the sun... absorbing it. On our factory cars, the fronts aren't tinted (or barely) while the rears are already a bit dark. I got my rears tinted less than the front because of this, but I still have the rears pretty darn black... 35% on top of the factory tint. The fronts are 20% (fingers crossed this doesn't draw unwanted attention, but if it does I'll re-do it at 35%)... So, right after getting the tint done (same day, afternoon)... I sat in my car in direct sun and the driver's side window was WAY cooler than either the rears or the sunroof (sunroof also 20%, should have done reflective on that). I could FEEL the heat radiating from above my head through the sunroof and that got me wondering about the (heat) value in what I'd just done (vs. just getting any regular tint), so I parked and sat in the sun and just felt each window (from the inside). I theorize that the factory tinted windows are already heating up because of the solid dark color, and the additional tint is actually making them even hotter, because they're even more black, and while the tint is stopping the sun from heating the seat (or whatever) as much, it's convecting up the interior anyway!

So... to answer this question, I ordered a solar meter like the one used in the ONLY videos you can find online addressing this (Texas Tint on YouTube)... since I couldn't find any other way to at least SEE some data. I also ordered a 5-pack of digital thermometers on Amazon (dirt cheap) that have wire-lead probes. So, I'm going to check the meter and see if the "solar power" is cut on my car like they show in the YouTube videos, and then compare that with a factory RX (I had a fantastic experience with my dealer and my salesman is almost like friend, so I'm sure he'll let me take a minute to do this on an RX on the lot)... and I'm also going to see how hot the glass gets (factory vs. ceramic) inside the car, as well as check my own tint job so I can compare that info too.

If it turns out I didn't get what I paid for, that place is going to regret it (they probably didn't figure I'd have to test this stuff, and I wouldn't have if they hadn't shown me the little "sales box" that shows just how great ceramic tint is... but driving home the sunroof was literally radiating heat on the top of my head so much that I wanted to slide it closed... but honestly, even if I DID get the ceramic I paid for, I want to know if this whole ceramic thing is legit or total BS. The bottom-line is that if it doesn't actually make your car measurably cooler... why bother with the up-charge? And if tinting your windows extra dark actually makes your car hotter (and you're doing it partly for that and not just privacy) then that's worth knowing also IMO.

1Louder

You may be better off with the measurements. I did touch the film that faced the sun for a couple hours and it was almost untouchable it was so hot. But, the fronts were not facing the sun so I don't have a normal window to compare to. Windows on the opposite side were cool to the touch. So I'm not sure what to make of it just yet. I have observed that when the sun is shining on me through the front, and I turn so that it's coming at me from the side, I feel less heat on my skin. A lot less. But that doesn't mean heat isn't also getting trapped in that film inside the car.

Interesting to see what your measurements reveal.

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I appreciate your enthusiasm for some kind of scientific answer on this. It sounds like you shared my experience... the back windows were too hot to maintain touch. My impression (reading about ceramic and checking out the "sales tool" box in the installation place) was that ceramic tint windows would stay somewhat cool to the touch, but again, heat works in many ways, and if you stop the radiant heat from the Sun, by absorbing it on/in the windows, they're still gonna' get HOT... and then it's simply conduction/convection heat... Soooo... the question becomes, does that keep the interior cooler or not? I can also appreciate the idea that the interior materials sustain less sun damage, even if the windows still get hot, and then heat up the car.

The question becomes (and I sure wish Myth Busters had tackled this one)... IS the car cooler overall because of the tint, or not(?) This is why I not only bought the solar meter, but also the multi-pack of probe-lead thermometers.

The solar meter arrived today! (Even though Amazon said it would take nearly a month... it arrived from China in LESS than a week! I think I ordered it Friday... and it's HERE on Monday?!) EDIT: I checked... I ordered the meter Wednesday, and it arrived today, Monday. Still pretty impressive, 6 days total, including the weekend?

I have a busy week, but by Friday evening I should have some data.

I'll be measuring BTU from direct sun... at a few times of day. I want to see how much that meter changes between my ceramic tinted windows... my standard carbon film tint on my other car... and a stock RX. I'm hoping to see numbers that tell me I got what I paid for, even if the conversation shifts to less interior heat due to ceramic vs. standard tint vs. nothing. I'll be happy if I got what I paid for... even if it isn't as effective as we've been told... and then we can offer the world a bit of real advice about tint, and what it does, and doesn't do. In my extremely short dip into the world of high-end tint... I realize this is an industry with a lot of sales tactics supported by ideas that sound nice... and not a lot of demonstrated real-world proof and results.

Worst-case scenario... I think I paid $200 more for ceramic tint over "regular" tint... and the install job LOOKS perfect... so I can live with a $200 lesson, even if it just to tell others not to bother... OR... maybe testing will show I didn't actually get ceramic, but whatever... knowing is all I'm really after. Did I get ceramic? Does it really matter? Let's find out.

1Louder

The only other experience I could offer (and maybe it was a sales pitch) but the guy had a heat lamp (I'm not sure what kind of lamp to be honest, but it radiated a lot of heat). It was focused down a metal tube, and at the end were "lenses" with the different coatings on them. He said to put my hand in front of the tube with no lens in between, then he flipped through the lenses and each time the heat on my hand got less as the heat blocking/absorbing material got stronger. This appears (unscientifically) to be what I experience in the car. But your point is interesting in that I never really thought of it - if the heat is trapped in the film then even though it doesn't make it into the car per se, that's a very hot surface radiating heat into the cabin. Maybe it takes the heat down enough that the cooling system in the car can keep up. Or maybe the film doesn't radiate inward. I couldn't really feel heat until I got very close (like within 1/2").

I'll be interested in your results!

ellocovg

iTrader: (1)

Does anybody here have Llumar tints? There’s a shop by me in NJ that’s recommended and the guy does really good work. I really wanted 3M but he uses Llumar which of course he says is better than 3M. He quoted me $200 to do the 2 front windows and the two small windows on the front doors plus my sunroof in the Llumar ceramic to match the rear windows. What do you guys think?

1Louder

I'm not familiar with Llumar, but for my Xpel Prime I was quoted $170 for the front windows only, and sunroof was $50 (but I didn't get that done). So seems consistent from my perspective.

FWIW, it was $450 for all five windows (front, passenger, and rear). Lesser quality films were half that.

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My apologies for going MIA... I work in television and some months work gets crazy busy... and after a month or two on the merry-go-round I get off and it's like, "where was I?"... anyway... I did buy a solar meter and received it a while back (takes a while to arrive)... and it looks like I did get what I thought I paid for. The side windows are all in low solar-power numbers... 40ish... while the front windshield is 160 in the same time-frame. I checked my Kia Soul (with full tint) to see how it measured up and it was consistently 2x the Lexus in each window... roughly twice across the board... so, hopefully... and it seems, I got what I paid for, and it looks like ceramic tint is scientifically better. 1/2 the solar power measured through the windows... even if the car does get hot inside... I don't know... that must account for something(?) I think the ads promoting all the heat-rejection are misleading... your car is still gonna' get blazing hot in the sun. I'm measuring a big difference in solar power through the tinted windows and the car is still simply hot as hell in the sun... so... a couple hundred bucks for the idea of heat-rejection? Whatever... I'm paying it.. and will again.

Off topic... but whatever: I just bought a Rogue to replace the Soul (as a work car)... and decided I'd pay for a certain extra level of trim, because the Lexus... well... it spoils you. I bought this particular Rogue because it had a really wild leather interior and the Bose premium package. Well... hopefully this little shared experience will help you further enjoy your Lexus... but the gist is... people were seeing the interior of the Rogue and saying it was "almost as good as the Lexus"... and I felt happy I bought the premium Bose option.... and after a week of driving the Rogue with the cool interior and enjoying the stereo... I got to wondering if I really "needed" the Lexus... I thought, "this is good enough... right?"

Um... tonight I took the Lexus again... ho... lee... *****... I hope most of you guys are loving and appreciating how freakin' awesome Lexus really is. I can't believe how good it ALL is... man... the upgraded Lexus stereo (not even the ML... but still "stock-ish") is FREAKISHLY good... it blows the "premium Bose" system in the Rogue into oblivion... and the seats... and overall fit and finish... man... I am so glad I bought this car... the brand-spanking new Rogue is still a beater... by comparison.

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I thought it would be cool to tint the panoramic sunroof with metalized tint, to help reduce how much sun gets into the car... and I've been told (by a couple tint companies) that tinting a panoramic sunroof is risky(?) They say the extra heat could cause the large piece of glass to crack or shatter. Meanwhile I've read on a few Tesla forums (don't own one, but was lead there by this topic) that some of those owners tint their entire glass roof.

So I'm wondering if anyone here has tinted their PANORAMIC sunroof... and better still... if anyone has done so with metalized (mirror) tint?

Freds430

I got our moonroofs tinted. It is reflected because of what you are saying about the heat buildup with keeping the cover shut. When they told me reflective I thought it was going to look like a mirror. Does not look different then the side windows that are also tinted. Makes a big difference in light and heat. Use to keep the cover closed all the time. Now just around noon on very hot days.

ssmtsx

I’ve had my pano roof tinted for a little over a year now..no issues (knock on wood)

1Louder

I feel the same way about mine. Every day I get in it and could not be happier.

FWIW, I got the same warning about tinting the pano or the moon roof. Given that a lot of people seem to do it, and you hear few horror stories, it's probably a low risk. For me, I didn't want to chance it and passed. Granted it's not as hot here as other places so I might feel differently if it were hot year round. But I didn't want to drop the cash to do it then even more cash to replace it if the worst happened.

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Well... I have an update and the plot thickens. Today I took the new Rogue to the same place. I called and asked for ceramic again and when I went in I didn't even say anything about it... they just said they saw me in the computer and took the keys. Today I only tinted the front driver/passenger door... and added an extra layer of tint to the back hatch since I'll be using this vehicle for work (and want the extra privacy for gear).

Since this car has the big pano-roof... I considered some kind of ceramic for that... even one that has barely any tint, but supposedly blocks solar power.

So... today we had a perfect control group... AND I asked for some scraps to make a decision on the sunroof. Well... my two front doors are definitely NOT ceramic... and I was pissed until I saw the receipt doesn't even say they are... so I called and the guy says, "not at that price... come in next week and we'll fix it"... He said ceramic would have been another $45. I'm still a pretty pissed considering I just had them do an ENTIRE Lexus... so... really? This dude thinks I was worried about the price difference?

Well... now things are going to get interesting, because now I'm going to drive my Lexus back to the dealer and get the keys to any other Lexus sitting out in the sun... and jump in with my solar power meter and see how the BTUs compare to MY car. You would be surprised at just how much sun the stock windows block. The stock windows on the Rogue (which doesn't hold a candle to the Lexus) stop nearly TWICE the power as the just tinted fronts. The sunroof is the same.

I've read that Lexus blocks most UV A and B... and I'll bet the tinted windows also stop IR and some other stuff.

After the tinting adventure today I almost pulled half the tint off my RX350 sunroof... just to see, because at least on the Nissan... the non-ceramic tint makes VERY little difference on the already effective factory tint. There's a video on YouTube talking about ceramic vs. non-ceramic... (Texas Tint Masters I believe... I'm looking for it and can't find it again yet)... where they talk about a shop saying they installed ceramic but actually didn't.... and they show how they can tell with a meter like the one I bought. The window is in the triple digits and the ceramic brings it down to half that. Well... the STOCK tinted windows are around the same numbers that are bragged up as fixed by ceramic... so... *sigh*... I am busy as hell until next Wednesday (week from tomorrow)... and I'll post mid-day solar measurements of a stock RX vs. my ceramic tinted(?) RX.

One thing I can tell you with reasonable certainty... I would NOT tint ANY windows on ANY Lexus in the future, that already have a factory tint... FOR HEAT BENEFITS... if you want a darker window... fine, but the factory window already kicks the *** of any tint you're going to put on top of it. Yes a further ceramic may add some additional help, but I'm back to not trusting the tint-business... at least until next week, when I can put some science behind this. I said above, that I felt that I probably got what I paid for because the ceramic windows were outperforming the tinted windows on the Kia... but now I realize that was mostly attributed to the LEXUS GLASS... NOT the added tint.

elimmigran

ALL windows (including sunroofs and panoroofs) on all my cars and I've never had an issues. On contrary, when I had one car get hit with a golf ball, it helped hold it together rather than shattering.

whiteghost

I never thought a film could block out this much heat. I’m very surprised and happy and the same time with my choice.

I went with 40% all the way around to keep it legal in my front two windows and the privacy glass that was already on the vehicle on the rear windows made it pretty dark.

I was hesitant to go with a lighter shade as they only have 40% to keep me at the state law requirement of 35% in Florida.

But once they they were done, I was very surprised of how dark all of the windows were. This is a good thing for most people. I don’t care about how dark it is, I wanted the heat rejection.

Upon firsts driving the vehicle right after the install, I immediately noticed that when my arm was resting in the driver door panel, the sun was beaming directly into that side of the vehicle and I felt almost no heat at all.

Ive had Huper Optik before and wasn’t this happy!

This is some great film. Unfortunately I is not get the windshield done because I wanted to see how it was after and I am defiantly taking it back within a few weeks to get the windshield and pano roof covered with 70% or 90%.

The film is not cheap at all and compared to most other tint I’ve done but I think I made wise choice. For all side and rear windows it ran $650. Windshield and Pano roof will cost $175 each. Ouch! But I think it will no doubt help out with the heat.