2016 RX 350 Excessive noise and vibration
05-11-17, 06:32 AM
#736
I've just completed one year of ownership of my 2016 RX 350 AWD and the 10K service was just performed recently as well. I haven't posted in a while mostly because I've been very busy (not the least of which is taking care of my 97 year old aunt) however I couldn't agree with "tdjacw" more. The vibration issue is very annoying and the car lacks the level of refinement and smoothness that I thought I was buying. I feel the high-frequency vibration through the accelerator pedal and the general floorboard area. Last month I bought my wife a 2017 Honda Pilot EX-L Nav and it is much smoother than my RX, no vibration issues whatsoever in the Pilot. The vibration in the RX is subtle but it's always present generally between the 1200 - 2000 rpm range and as "tdjacw" noted it's especially noticeable when under load (in high torque conditions like accelerating in 2nd or 3rd gear). I'm probably going to cut my losses and trade-in my RX for a Q5 or Q7 this summer. This will be the first car I've had in many years that I haven't kept for at least 4 years. In the meantime if Lexus comes out with a vibration/drone fix as a TSB (technical service bulletin) I'll request that my dealer apply it. But I have no confidence in Lexus at this point.
05-11-17, 06:59 AM
#737
05-11-17, 09:19 AM
#738
1) For the first time in an RX (or possibly in any Lexus vehicle) the engineers decided to fasten the engine directly to the uni-body structure. There are four engine connection points in total, two are to the sub-frame (the typical practice) and two to the uni-body structure (the novel implementation). As I said, their engines are historically connected via four points to the sub-frame. Now, we have two connections directly to the uni-body and thus potentially introducing engine vibration to the passenger compartment. The basic idea was to add rigidity to the whole car, not a bad idea but, of course, the devil is in the details. Lexus had posted a YouTube or Lexus Drivers video about this change for the car's introduction. Maybe this is why I feel so much vibration down in the floorboard area because the engine is bolted to the same piece of steel not too far away?
2) Some folks have speculated the vibration emanates from the engine's operating mode, switching between the Atkinson cycle to the Otto cycle. This subject is above my pay scale so I'll leave that discussion to others.
3) Finally, the exhaust system. Some say that by disassembling the various components of the exhaust system and reassembling them in a center-out fashion that strain is reduced and subsequently, vibration. At my 10K service, the service manager volunteered to perform this exhaust system strain relief on my RX. At the end of the second day when I picked up my RX they simply had decided not to bother doing it. No explanation - thanks a lot Service Manager.
My intuition leads me to believe the vibration is caused by a combination of these three possibilities.
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615tpc (05-11-17)
05-11-17, 10:46 AM
#739
From what I've read, there are three theories as to the cause of the high frequency vibration.
1) For the first time in an RX (or possibly in any Lexus vehicle) the engineers decided to fasten the engine directly to the uni-body structure. There are four engine connection points in total, two are to the sub-frame (the typical practice) and two to the uni-body structure (the novel implementation). As I said, their engines are historically connected via four points to the sub-frame. Now, we have two connections directly to the uni-body and thus potentially introducing engine vibration to the passenger compartment. The basic idea was to add rigidity to the whole car, not a bad idea but, of course, the devil is in the details. Lexus had posted a YouTube or Lexus Drivers video about this change for the car's introduction. Maybe this is why I feel so much vibration down in the floorboard area because the engine is bolted to the same piece of steel not too far away?
2) Some folks have speculated the vibration emanates from the engine's operating mode, switching between the Atkinson cycle to the Otto cycle. This subject is above my pay scale so I'll leave that discussion to others.
3) Finally, the exhaust system. Some say that by disassembling the various components of the exhaust system and reassembling them in a center-out fashion that strain is reduced and subsequently, vibration. At my 10K service, the service manager volunteered to perform this exhaust system strain relief on my RX. At the end of the second day when I picked up my RX they simply had decided not to bother doing it. No explanation - thanks a lot Service Manager.
My intuition leads me to believe the vibration is caused by a combination of these three possibilities.
1) For the first time in an RX (or possibly in any Lexus vehicle) the engineers decided to fasten the engine directly to the uni-body structure. There are four engine connection points in total, two are to the sub-frame (the typical practice) and two to the uni-body structure (the novel implementation). As I said, their engines are historically connected via four points to the sub-frame. Now, we have two connections directly to the uni-body and thus potentially introducing engine vibration to the passenger compartment. The basic idea was to add rigidity to the whole car, not a bad idea but, of course, the devil is in the details. Lexus had posted a YouTube or Lexus Drivers video about this change for the car's introduction. Maybe this is why I feel so much vibration down in the floorboard area because the engine is bolted to the same piece of steel not too far away?
2) Some folks have speculated the vibration emanates from the engine's operating mode, switching between the Atkinson cycle to the Otto cycle. This subject is above my pay scale so I'll leave that discussion to others.
3) Finally, the exhaust system. Some say that by disassembling the various components of the exhaust system and reassembling them in a center-out fashion that strain is reduced and subsequently, vibration. At my 10K service, the service manager volunteered to perform this exhaust system strain relief on my RX. At the end of the second day when I picked up my RX they simply had decided not to bother doing it. No explanation - thanks a lot Service Manager.
My intuition leads me to believe the vibration is caused by a combination of these three possibilities.
So for the unibody fastening, are they still using liquid filled vibration cancellers? That might be a solution.
My old car fastens the engine to the frame using simple dogbones. No other vibration dampers and the thing is as smooth as silk. But that was a different time, a different engine and now with these new engines, cost cutting, weight reduction etc this is a different game. I'm guessing if sales suffer then we will see an RX redesign sooner than later. I wonder if the extended wheelbase RX (the TX) is going to deal with this differently.
05-11-17, 05:11 PM
#740
When I finally got a Lexus Master Tech to look at my car he guaranteed me that it wasn't a muffler/exhaust issue causing the vibration.
Now that I think back at the conversation he did volunteer information about the way the motor is now mounted to the subframe differently than the previous model. That said its probably a safe bet that this is the issue. Probably why their having a hard time coming up with a fix.
Now that I think back at the conversation he did volunteer information about the way the motor is now mounted to the subframe differently than the previous model. That said its probably a safe bet that this is the issue. Probably why their having a hard time coming up with a fix.
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alin1390 (01-30-20)
05-11-17, 06:06 PM
#741
I haven't driven the RX so I can't say. But I will comment that I've test driven the gs350 twice and there is a whole lot of drivetrain vibration that makes it into the cabin. In fact the AWD makes it so that there is very little lateral legroom for the driver. Th vibration was noticeable enough that it steered me clear of buying that car and I picked up a competitors luxury vehicle in the same segment.
Now ow we are looking for a reliable SUV, and I'm stumped because I want the reliability of a Lexus.
Now ow we are looking for a reliable SUV, and I'm stumped because I want the reliability of a Lexus.
05-12-17, 07:49 AM
#742
Here is some info that might help explain the differences from the 3RX. Thought some people would like to know. Enjoy!
Platform Chassis and Driving Dynamics
Suspension
To further improve driving performance as well as feedback to the driver, a number of updates and enhancements have been made throughout the highly-refined platform of the all-new Lexus RX.
Although the new RX utilizes an updated underbody platform of its predecessor, it has been given revamped front engine mounts to the sub-frame structure. The side engine mounts have been relocated to enhance the vehicle’s lateral responsiveness, resulting in the engine sitting tighter in the compartment, which provides for sharper steering feel and enhanced cornering reaction of the chassis. And, this newfound agility comes at no sacrifice to the RX’s trademark smoothness and quietness.
The RX utilizes a front-strut and rear double-wishbone suspension system designed to provide enhanced steering response and ride comfort.
To simultaneously enhance performance and ride quality, the distribution of the stiffness in the springs and sway bars were changed from the previous model to provide an ideal balance of stiffness and compliance. Along with the changes to the engine mounts, the rigidity of the front sway bar was increased to improve control. By changing the front and rear spring rate balance, the vehicle was able to maintain a flat posture and decrease vertical pitching.
The refinements of various suspension parts enable the car to be more responsive to the driver’s steering inputs. By increasing the rigidity of the front axle and hub bearings, as well as retuning all the bushings, steering feedback from the tires to the driver’s hands has been significantly enhanced. The grip level and traction of the tires were also improved, helping the RX to respond crisply during turn-in and enhance its overall agility. At the rear suspension, the rigidity of the bushings was modified to help reduce understeer and allow the RX to be more agile without sacrificing comfort.
Brakes
The RX braking system was engineered for braking control and enhanced brake feel, which helps provide the driver with exceptional stopping control and power.
RX 350 features a dual-stage brake servo booster which provides a clear feeling when the brakes are in use, as well as moderate feedback force, realizing excellent brake feel and enhanced control. A new actuator, V3-ACV, was added to decrease stroke when the brake pedal is applied.
RX 450h has a modified version of the ACT ECB2.5 actuator to improve the transition of the braking g-force.
Steering
To match the changes made to the suspension and platform, the steering system was modified to make the car respond more precisely and responsively. The driver’s seating position was lowered and the steering wheel was moved closer and more vertical to accommodate long distance driving. The adjustable range of the electronic steering tilt and telescopic steering column was expanded to allow tall drivers to sit in a comfortable driving position.
Although the motor-in-column Electric Power Steering (EPS) structure was maintained, the shaft stiffness between the column and rack gear was increased for enhanced road feedback through the steering wheel. The newest EPS management system was adopted for a wider control range of initial steer, return-steer and cornering in accordance to variable speed ranges and reactive force.
This enables the car to have a light and comfortable steering feel, but at the same time deliver enhanced driver communication with the vehicle. Without changing the outer diameter of the steering wheel, the grip diameter and geometry were finely tuned to enhance handling characteristics for everyday use and sports driving.
Adaptive Variable Suspension (AVS)
The available Adaptive Variable Suspension (AVS) system adjusts the damping force according to road conditions. By adding a linear solenoid with an oil pressure valve to the AVS shock absorber, a shock free-variable suspension system was realized. Actively changing the absorbance level allows the suspension to respond quickly, and helps the RX have a flat riding feel in a broad range of driving environments.
Platform Chassis and Driving Dynamics
Suspension
To further improve driving performance as well as feedback to the driver, a number of updates and enhancements have been made throughout the highly-refined platform of the all-new Lexus RX.
Although the new RX utilizes an updated underbody platform of its predecessor, it has been given revamped front engine mounts to the sub-frame structure. The side engine mounts have been relocated to enhance the vehicle’s lateral responsiveness, resulting in the engine sitting tighter in the compartment, which provides for sharper steering feel and enhanced cornering reaction of the chassis. And, this newfound agility comes at no sacrifice to the RX’s trademark smoothness and quietness.
The RX utilizes a front-strut and rear double-wishbone suspension system designed to provide enhanced steering response and ride comfort.
To simultaneously enhance performance and ride quality, the distribution of the stiffness in the springs and sway bars were changed from the previous model to provide an ideal balance of stiffness and compliance. Along with the changes to the engine mounts, the rigidity of the front sway bar was increased to improve control. By changing the front and rear spring rate balance, the vehicle was able to maintain a flat posture and decrease vertical pitching.
The refinements of various suspension parts enable the car to be more responsive to the driver’s steering inputs. By increasing the rigidity of the front axle and hub bearings, as well as retuning all the bushings, steering feedback from the tires to the driver’s hands has been significantly enhanced. The grip level and traction of the tires were also improved, helping the RX to respond crisply during turn-in and enhance its overall agility. At the rear suspension, the rigidity of the bushings was modified to help reduce understeer and allow the RX to be more agile without sacrificing comfort.
Brakes
The RX braking system was engineered for braking control and enhanced brake feel, which helps provide the driver with exceptional stopping control and power.
RX 350 features a dual-stage brake servo booster which provides a clear feeling when the brakes are in use, as well as moderate feedback force, realizing excellent brake feel and enhanced control. A new actuator, V3-ACV, was added to decrease stroke when the brake pedal is applied.
RX 450h has a modified version of the ACT ECB2.5 actuator to improve the transition of the braking g-force.
Steering
To match the changes made to the suspension and platform, the steering system was modified to make the car respond more precisely and responsively. The driver’s seating position was lowered and the steering wheel was moved closer and more vertical to accommodate long distance driving. The adjustable range of the electronic steering tilt and telescopic steering column was expanded to allow tall drivers to sit in a comfortable driving position.
Although the motor-in-column Electric Power Steering (EPS) structure was maintained, the shaft stiffness between the column and rack gear was increased for enhanced road feedback through the steering wheel. The newest EPS management system was adopted for a wider control range of initial steer, return-steer and cornering in accordance to variable speed ranges and reactive force.
This enables the car to have a light and comfortable steering feel, but at the same time deliver enhanced driver communication with the vehicle. Without changing the outer diameter of the steering wheel, the grip diameter and geometry were finely tuned to enhance handling characteristics for everyday use and sports driving.
Adaptive Variable Suspension (AVS)
The available Adaptive Variable Suspension (AVS) system adjusts the damping force according to road conditions. By adding a linear solenoid with an oil pressure valve to the AVS shock absorber, a shock free-variable suspension system was realized. Actively changing the absorbance level allows the suspension to respond quickly, and helps the RX have a flat riding feel in a broad range of driving environments.
05-12-17, 03:39 PM
#745
Just took my daughters 2016 Toyota Camry in for an oil change. I cant believe how much smoother that little 4 cyl
is than my Lexus. I think you get use to the noise and vibration and than when you drive something else you relize what
smooth accelleration is like. I have to stop beating myself up for buying this and not doing more research. I know I sound like a broken record but after being out for a year and a half fix it already!!!! I really hope someone from Lexus is reading this thread and cares enough to take our concerns seriously.
is than my Lexus. I think you get use to the noise and vibration and than when you drive something else you relize what
smooth accelleration is like. I have to stop beating myself up for buying this and not doing more research. I know I sound like a broken record but after being out for a year and a half fix it already!!!! I really hope someone from Lexus is reading this thread and cares enough to take our concerns seriously.
05-12-17, 03:48 PM
#746
Driver School Candidate
Spoke to Lexus canada customer care
Today, i reported my issue to Lexus Canada customer care and was quite surprised to receive a phone call within a span of 2 hours. Explained the whole vibration, drone, vibrating mirror etc. issues and mentioned about how i have given up my plans for going on a road trip this summer with the RX. I have been assured that they will open a case and forward it to the engineers at Lexus. I have been provided with a name and number to obtain updates on my case. Looks like a promising start.
Let's see what comes out of this. What intrigued me was that it appears as though i am the first to complain about this to Lexus Canada - Am i the only one with a poorly built Lexus RX in entire Canada?
Let's see what comes out of this. What intrigued me was that it appears as though i am the first to complain about this to Lexus Canada - Am i the only one with a poorly built Lexus RX in entire Canada?
05-12-17, 04:25 PM
#747
Today, i reported my issue to Lexus Canada customer care and was quite surprised to receive a phone call within a span of 2 hours. Explained the whole vibration, drone, vibrating mirror etc. issues and mentioned about how i have given up my plans for going on a road trip this summer with the RX. I have been assured that they will open a case and forward it to the engineers at Lexus. I have been provided with a name and number to obtain updates on my case. Looks like a promising start.
Let's see what comes out of this. What intrigued me was that it appears as though i am the first to complain about this to Lexus Canada - Am i the only one with a poorly built Lexus RX in entire Canada?
Let's see what comes out of this. What intrigued me was that it appears as though i am the first to complain about this to Lexus Canada - Am i the only one with a poorly built Lexus RX in entire Canada?
05-12-17, 05:51 PM
#748
Thanks for everyone reporting their findings in this thread. I was looking at buying a 2017 RX for my wife as a surprise but I'm going to hold off until this is fixed for a new design with fix built in is released. Not really interested in other vehicles at this time so she will continue driving what she has now.
Thanks again. Sad that Lexus has this issue to begin with. At this point, I am starting to think that's its a design issue and will require a redesign to fix it...just my 2 cents.
Thanks again. Sad that Lexus has this issue to begin with. At this point, I am starting to think that's its a design issue and will require a redesign to fix it...just my 2 cents.
05-12-17, 09:35 PM
#749
Driver School Candidate
A number of you have said that temperature seems to make a difference in how bad your drone/vibration is. In my case (I live in Phoenix and have had the car 16 months) the temperature has no effect. I have the vibration and drone at all times (from 1200-1500 rpm) regardless of outside temperature and if the engine is cold or hot. I've put the dampers on my exhaust system which has helped some, but only to a small extent. I had a Lexus mechanical tech drive with me and admitted he heard the issue. He also then drove new cars on the lot and said they too had the problem. But of course, Lexus tells him the car is functioning as designed. My service rep told me a month ago he thought a fix was coming soon. I don't believe it. I agree that it has to be an inherent design problem that is a major issue to change; like the motor mount issue discussed earlier. If so it will likely never be fixed until a model redesign. Dumping this lemon and continuing to tell people never to buy this car is going to be my answer.
This is a real black mark for Lexus.
This is a real black mark for Lexus.
05-12-17, 09:56 PM
#750
A number of you have said that temperature seems to make a difference in how bad your drone/vibration is. In my case (I live in Phoenix and have had the car 16 months) the temperature has no effect. I have the vibration and drone at all times (from 1200-1500 rpm) regardless of outside temperature and if the engine is cold or hot. I've put the dampers on my exhaust system which has helped some, but only to a small extent. I had a Lexus mechanical tech drive with me and admitted he heard the issue. He also then drove new cars on the lot and said they too had the problem. But of course, Lexus tells him the car is functioning as designed. My service rep told me a month ago he thought a fix was coming soon. I don't believe it. I agree that it has to be an inherent design problem that is a major issue to change; like the motor mount issue discussed earlier. If so it will likely never be fixed until a model redesign. Dumping this lemon and continuing to tell people never to buy this car is going to be my answer.
This is a real black mark for Lexus.
This is a real black mark for Lexus.