Mark Levinson vs Standard Audio System
09-15-24, 03:38 PM
#406
Driver School Candidate
USB music formats?
I have a good friend who is an audiophile and his comment was "well,...it doesn't suck." in reference to the ML system. Good sound stage placement, great mid-range, so-so base, and weak treble. He was with me for the 1,000 mile drive home when I picked up my RX a month ago. Regarding my past vehicles, the ML system sounds better than anything else I had. The only thing that could come close was my 2003 SAAB 9-5 Aero SportCombi with the Harmon Kardon system. My 2009 Venza had the premium sound in it and it wasn't nearly as good as the SAAB. He also mentioned that his '22 RDX had slightly better OEM sound, and then I got schooled on how cheap the speakers were in OEM systems for mass market.
First thing he did was turn off the auto sound leveling and surround. Then he tweaked the settings until it was "good" while using his hi-res collection to tune it.
Anyways...I do have a question about USB formats. I've seen elsewhere in this forum that it should play WAV, WMA, and MP3. Well, MP3 sucks. I don't like it, and I can definitely tell the difference between that, disk direct, and WAV using the phone's bluetooth.
Only thing is my car ('17) won't see WAV files. It will see WMA but won't play any of it, and goes right to MP3. Even ripped at the highest quality, it just doesn't sound as good. I did some format testing by having the same track of a CD ripped in various formats. The USB is just more convenient than using my phone or swapping disks. My old Venza had a six disk changer, so it wasn't as big of a deal. Using my phone, the interface requires me to pick it up, look at it, and scroll around to find what I want to listen to.
Is the format thing simply something that has to do with the software I'm using to do the ripping? (Yes, I have researched and formatted the drive correctly.)
Does anyone know if it uses the same DAC between the input methods? I know that you can adjust the Treb, Mid, and Base in each input, but that doesn't mean much.
First thing he did was turn off the auto sound leveling and surround. Then he tweaked the settings until it was "good" while using his hi-res collection to tune it.
Anyways...I do have a question about USB formats. I've seen elsewhere in this forum that it should play WAV, WMA, and MP3. Well, MP3 sucks. I don't like it, and I can definitely tell the difference between that, disk direct, and WAV using the phone's bluetooth.
Only thing is my car ('17) won't see WAV files. It will see WMA but won't play any of it, and goes right to MP3. Even ripped at the highest quality, it just doesn't sound as good. I did some format testing by having the same track of a CD ripped in various formats. The USB is just more convenient than using my phone or swapping disks. My old Venza had a six disk changer, so it wasn't as big of a deal. Using my phone, the interface requires me to pick it up, look at it, and scroll around to find what I want to listen to.
Is the format thing simply something that has to do with the software I'm using to do the ripping? (Yes, I have researched and formatted the drive correctly.)
Does anyone know if it uses the same DAC between the input methods? I know that you can adjust the Treb, Mid, and Base in each input, but that doesn't mean much.
09-16-24, 09:19 PM
#408
Driver School Candidate
Mean=origin:
Treb: +2
Mid: Mean
Base: +1
Fade: Center
Balance: Center
Surround: Off (far better for music)
Sound leveling: On (my friend turned this off, but I turned it back on.)
These settings were tuned using high resolution jazz while vehicle was in motion going 75-80 mph on the highway. (Being in motion takes into account ambient noise that can affect the listening experience. Road/tire noise, engine noise, wind noise, external traffic noise...) I listen to a mixture of rock, pop, and classical. (Think Chopin, Rachmaninoff, Mozart...)
Obviously, everyone has their own tastes. I like a little more base, but I'm not a base-head. Once base is taken to +2 and far more noticeable on +3 it starts getting "muddy". +1 was the sweet spot.
Treb: +2
Mid: Mean
Base: +1
Fade: Center
Balance: Center
Surround: Off (far better for music)
Sound leveling: On (my friend turned this off, but I turned it back on.)
These settings were tuned using high resolution jazz while vehicle was in motion going 75-80 mph on the highway. (Being in motion takes into account ambient noise that can affect the listening experience. Road/tire noise, engine noise, wind noise, external traffic noise...) I listen to a mixture of rock, pop, and classical. (Think Chopin, Rachmaninoff, Mozart...)
Obviously, everyone has their own tastes. I like a little more base, but I'm not a base-head. Once base is taken to +2 and far more noticeable on +3 it starts getting "muddy". +1 was the sweet spot.
09-17-24, 02:32 PM
#409
1st Gear
Join Date: Sep 2024
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Just bought my son a 2017 Luxury with the ML system. Ms AlmostJake and I are looking at buying a 2025 RX and were considering the ML system. Not any more. After living with my son's 2017, it seems like only certain music sounds decent on his system; like soft music, talk radio or jazz. Throw some rock at it and it sounds hallow and the bass bottoms out. Plus, I doubt it goes lower than 80 - 100 hz. It also sounds like I only have front speakers since it is front biased.
Granted it sounds better than some systems, but it was a disappointment and not worth the price to us; unless your someone who doesn't ever update their system.
Granted it sounds better than some systems, but it was a disappointment and not worth the price to us; unless your someone who doesn't ever update their system.
09-17-24, 03:11 PM
#410
Mean=origin:
Treb: +2
Mid: Mean
Base: +1
Fade: Center
Balance: Center
Surround: Off (far better for music)
Sound leveling: On (my friend turned this off, but I turned it back on.)
These settings were tuned using high resolution jazz while vehicle was in motion going 75-80 mph on the highway. (Being in motion takes into account ambient noise that can affect the listening experience. Road/tire noise, engine noise, wind noise, external traffic noise...) I listen to a mixture of rock, pop, and classical. (Think Chopin, Rachmaninoff, Mozart...)
Obviously, everyone has their own tastes. I like a little more base, but I'm not a base-head. Once base is taken to +2 and far more noticeable on +3 it starts getting "muddy". +1 was the sweet spot.
Treb: +2
Mid: Mean
Base: +1
Fade: Center
Balance: Center
Surround: Off (far better for music)
Sound leveling: On (my friend turned this off, but I turned it back on.)
These settings were tuned using high resolution jazz while vehicle was in motion going 75-80 mph on the highway. (Being in motion takes into account ambient noise that can affect the listening experience. Road/tire noise, engine noise, wind noise, external traffic noise...) I listen to a mixture of rock, pop, and classical. (Think Chopin, Rachmaninoff, Mozart...)
Obviously, everyone has their own tastes. I like a little more base, but I'm not a base-head. Once base is taken to +2 and far more noticeable on +3 it starts getting "muddy". +1 was the sweet spot.
09-18-24, 06:38 PM
#412
Driver School Candidate
Do you drive with all the windows down? Do you have stuff on the roof? Do you have the roof sunshade open?... What kind of tires do you use (some are noisier than others)? What about road surface? ALL those things will impact sound quality. That's just the tip of the iceberg... read on...
What is your source material? What input are you using? What is your music format? (MP3? WAV? FLAC? WMA?...) when it comes to anything other than WAV lossless, what is the bitrate? I can tell you that MP3 sucks, even in 320kbps bitrate. If you're streaming Pandora, that sucks donkey ***** at about 192 kbps. As opposed to CD or WAV lossless which is about 1411kbps. (Streaming service quality bitrate chart: https://www.soundguys.com/spotify-vs-pandora-36915/ )
The flaws of a lower bitrate tend to rear their ugly head in the higher frequencies of mid and especially treble, and the higher quality the system, these flaws are much easier to pick out. With a HIGH QUALITY SYSTEM AND SOURCE, volume should not matter as much. You can crank the volume and high frequency tones will not hurt your ears. On the other side of that coin, cranking the volume on poor source material can be painful in the ears. Case in point: I popped in a CD I just purchased (because I'm getting to that age of being an "old fart") and was able to put the volume up to 35 and it was very enjoyable. I ripped that same album in 320kbps MP3 and 20 is about my limit. All settings are set the same between the inputs. ... that led to my question on if the car uses a different DAC (Digital to Analog Converter) for each of its inputs.
My recommendation is to attain a CD copy or WAV lossless bitrate music and play it via disk direct or Bluetooth off a player if you can. Then you can tune the system to your tastes. My taste is different than my friend's, and I'm sure yours is different than mine. Some people like country western and others like screaming metal. I don't like either, but I'll tolerate the latter. lol!
09-18-24, 07:05 PM
#413
Driver School Candidate
Just bought my son a 2017 Luxury with the ML system. Ms AlmostJake and I are looking at buying a 2025 RX and were considering the ML system. Not any more. After living with my son's 2017, it seems like only certain music sounds decent on his system; like soft music, talk radio or jazz. Throw some rock at it and it sounds hallow and the bass bottoms out. Plus, I doubt it goes lower than 80 - 100 hz. It also sounds like I only have front speakers since it is front biased.
Granted it sounds better than some systems, but it was a disappointment and not worth the price to us; unless your someone who doesn't ever update their system.
Granted it sounds better than some systems, but it was a disappointment and not worth the price to us; unless your someone who doesn't ever update their system.
What's your source?
What format?
What bitrate?
I've found that bitrate has a HUGE impact on the output quality. Playing a garbage recording with poor bitrate is going to sound like garbage even in a Rolls Royce Phantom. If your streaming, what service? Pandora and Spotify are terrible. In order to take advantage of a premium system, you need to have a quality source. Now, that being said, I am aware that most OEM systems are pretty cheap and they charge you for the name slapped on the box. The ML system in this car has the harness and amp to take higher quality speakers, and when/if the amp goes, you can change that out as well. Standard system may not have the required harness to upgrade to the same number of speakers as the ML. But I don't know, because I've only owned mine for a month.
As far as the sound stage, you can easily adjust that with the fade and balance, as well as tune the system. Don't just jack everything to the max, because then it will sound like crap. (granted, I don't know your background...)
I've listened to a pair of speakers that cost more than twice what I paid for my house. That doesn't include the cables, and other equipment to run them, which I'm sure added another $200k to the price tag. They sounded pretty amazing. But if you tried streaming Pandora through those things, it's going to sound like crap because the source material (bitrate is key here) is crap. MP3 is also very poor. The poorer the bitrate or poorer the recording, the more those flaws are going to pop up the higher quality the system they are being played on. See my post above on bitrates, or do your own reserch on format bitrates. CD direct or WAV lossless will give you the best sound. There's some ultra-high-resolution stuff out there, but I'm not sure the car will support it.
My opinion: Pandora and MP3 is good for mowing the lawn or cell phone speakers while doing other tasks.
The following users liked this post:
jollick (09-19-24)
09-19-24, 11:58 AM
#414
Depends on a lot of things. Bitrate of the source material is going to be a huge factor.
Do you drive with all the windows down? Do you have stuff on the roof? Do you have the roof sunshade open?... What kind of tires do you use (some are noisier than others)? What about road surface? ALL those things will impact sound quality. That's just the tip of the iceberg... read on...
What is your source material? What input are you using? What is your music format? (MP3? WAV? FLAC? WMA?...) when it comes to anything other than WAV lossless, what is the bitrate? I can tell you that MP3 sucks, even in 320kbps bitrate. If you're streaming Pandora, that sucks donkey ***** at about 192 kbps. As opposed to CD or WAV lossless which is about 1411kbps. (Streaming service quality bitrate chart: https://www.soundguys.com/spotify-vs-pandora-36915/ )
The flaws of a lower bitrate tend to rear their ugly head in the higher frequencies of mid and especially treble, and the higher quality the system, these flaws are much easier to pick out. With a HIGH QUALITY SYSTEM AND SOURCE, volume should not matter as much. You can crank the volume and high frequency tones will not hurt your ears. On the other side of that coin, cranking the volume on poor source material can be painful in the ears. Case in point: I popped in a CD I just purchased (because I'm getting to that age of being an "old fart") and was able to put the volume up to 35 and it was very enjoyable. I ripped that same album in 320kbps MP3 and 20 is about my limit. All settings are set the same between the inputs. ... that led to my question on if the car uses a different DAC (Digital to Analog Converter) for each of its inputs.
My recommendation is to attain a CD copy or WAV lossless bitrate music and play it via disk direct or Bluetooth off a player if you can. Then you can tune the system to your tastes. My taste is different than my friend's, and I'm sure yours is different than mine. Some people like country western and others like screaming metal. I don't like either, but I'll tolerate the latter. lol!
Do you drive with all the windows down? Do you have stuff on the roof? Do you have the roof sunshade open?... What kind of tires do you use (some are noisier than others)? What about road surface? ALL those things will impact sound quality. That's just the tip of the iceberg... read on...
What is your source material? What input are you using? What is your music format? (MP3? WAV? FLAC? WMA?...) when it comes to anything other than WAV lossless, what is the bitrate? I can tell you that MP3 sucks, even in 320kbps bitrate. If you're streaming Pandora, that sucks donkey ***** at about 192 kbps. As opposed to CD or WAV lossless which is about 1411kbps. (Streaming service quality bitrate chart: https://www.soundguys.com/spotify-vs-pandora-36915/ )
The flaws of a lower bitrate tend to rear their ugly head in the higher frequencies of mid and especially treble, and the higher quality the system, these flaws are much easier to pick out. With a HIGH QUALITY SYSTEM AND SOURCE, volume should not matter as much. You can crank the volume and high frequency tones will not hurt your ears. On the other side of that coin, cranking the volume on poor source material can be painful in the ears. Case in point: I popped in a CD I just purchased (because I'm getting to that age of being an "old fart") and was able to put the volume up to 35 and it was very enjoyable. I ripped that same album in 320kbps MP3 and 20 is about my limit. All settings are set the same between the inputs. ... that led to my question on if the car uses a different DAC (Digital to Analog Converter) for each of its inputs.
My recommendation is to attain a CD copy or WAV lossless bitrate music and play it via disk direct or Bluetooth off a player if you can. Then you can tune the system to your tastes. My taste is different than my friend's, and I'm sure yours is different than mine. Some people like country western and others like screaming metal. I don't like either, but I'll tolerate the latter. lol!
I usually listen to music on youtube using bluetooth. I do have my volume set to auto sound leveling so that is not really an issue.
09-19-24, 10:44 PM
#415
Driver School Candidate
I believe auto leveling volume adjusts in a narrow band to keep the perceived volume roughly the same when you are stopped as when you're in motion. Like a lot of "intelligent" or "smart" gizmos, sometimes they work, and sometimes they are a nuisance... and often in the same trip.
09-27-24, 06:06 AM
#417
I use YouTube music a lot as of late but wish I could see video on the Nav screen but I have seen some ppl switch to 13 inch Android Nav screen where you can watch Youtube.