taimysho0

I bought a 2016 Lexus last year from a Lexus dealership and it was CPO certified. Last week I took it to a closer Lexus dealer near us to get our free oil change (part of CPO program). During the check up, the dealer added a note to our paperwork/receipt saying they noticed the entire left side of car has been repainted. They also noticed yellow ticks on parts of the front left suspension (indicating it was replaced). I asked them if the Lexus dealer i bought from should have disclosed this to me when I first looked at the car and they said no (since a car can still be CPO if paint was due to something like a scratch and needs to be repainted). They checked their system and told me that there are no records of when the car was repainted or if the suspension was replaced during the same time it was repainted (indicating an accident/collission).\

Anyone know if I can apply Lemon law here or if there are any grounds to sue the Lexus dealer i bought car from? The car used to be a loaner for the dealer and was sold to us at 16k miles.

SoCalRX

There are a lot of details that need to be filled-in. How many previous owners? People believe that services like CARFAX report everything, but they only report what they get. Many things go unreported. Dealers can work their way around all of this because of the connections they have with their allied industry businesses. Is it ethical? No. It could very well be transport damage that was fixed before the vehicle was originally sold. If you want to get into the legal aspects of matters, you should contact a lawyer specializing in vehicle lawsuits. Sorry to read about your plight and I hope matters are resolved to your satisfaction.

Oldfart

Even if car was in an accident it still can be certified as CPO.
If car was in an accident it must be disclosed.
Let's assume that previous owner had an accident but didn't report it does the dealer suppose to disclose that part of the car was repainted? Or some parts replaced?

lesz

Many buyers are under the misconception that, when they buy a CPO vehicle, they are buying a vehicle that is "almost new". In many cases, I'm sure that is true, but it is not necessarily the case. Basically, if the car passes the CPO inspection, the dealer is likely to sell it as a certified vehicle.

On the various CL boards, I've seen a good number of threads in which people have posted saying that they bought a CPO vehicle and that, at some point after the purchase, they discovered that the vehicle had some sort of body/paint work done on it. Often it is something that is relatively minor, such as refinishing a scratched bumper. In some cases, it has turned out that the repairs were more significant.

It is also a misconception that a CarFax report will include all accidents and resulting body work on the car. The reality is that a CarFax report will only include accidents if they are reported by a law enforcement agency, an insurance company, or a body shop, and the majority of accidents simply do not get reported and entered into the CarFax data base. CarFax reports have, for the most part, become nothing more than a marketing tool for dealerships that give potential buyers a feeling of confidence that they are buying a car that has not been in an accident, and, often, that confidence is not deserved. I've seen cars with $15,000+ worth of collision damage that have a clean CarFax report.

Essentially, buying a CPO vehicle is like buying any other used car, and the operating rule with purchasing any used car should be "buyer beware".

taimysho0

Thanks for the response, there was only 1 previous owner which was the dealer (Lexus) themselves. They used the car solely as a loaner vehicle.

ravenuer

Fully agree. I'd say the main appeal of a CPO deal would be the extended warranty and whatever number of "free" oil changes they throw in. I still say that any vehicle with significant body/paint work should never allowed to be sold CPO. But like you say....buyer beware.

lesz

Not only is it the case that cars with paint/body work are often sold as CPO vehicles, but the same can be true with new cars. If, over the course of a few decades, you have bought 15-20 new cars, there is a good chance that, even if you did not know it, one or more of those cars had paint/body work before it was sold to you. There are times when damage is done to cars during transport. At other times, cars can be scratched or dented while they are on the dealer's lot, and, from time to time, cars on a dealer's lot sustain hail damage.

The prevailing practice, whether it be with CPO vehicles or new cars, is that, if damage is judged to have been repaired to its pre-damage state, a used car will still be sold as a CPO vehicle, and a new car with such repaired damage will still be sold as a new car. And typical buyers will never become aware of the fact that repairs were done on the car unless someone else points it out to them.

SoCalRX

It's crappy that the dealership didn’t tell you about the damage. What I would do is determine whether the tire on the damaged corner of the vehicle (where the yellow suspension markings were found) is wearing irregularly; whether the vehicle drives in a straight line down the road without any offset; check the other three tires for irregular wear; whether the vehicle can meet wheel alignment specs on alignment rack because if the repair did not include all the required new parts sometimes the alignment cannot be adjusted properly due to a bent suspension component(s). If you want to get super picky about matters, and if you believe you want to pursue legal action, mention to your lawyer to have the vehicle placed on a frame machine/rack and have the frame specs read to see whether they fall into allowable tolerances and that there is no frame damage.

In addition, get a copy from the dealership that found and noted the repairs and send it via registered mail to the dealership that sold you the vehicle informing them that you have discovered the repaired damage and that you were informed of said damage upon purchase.

taimysho0

thanks for the advice here, will take it to get alignment and check out the specs. tires look ok from wear from what i can see.

corkycal

iTrader: (8)

lesz

As I said earlier in the thread, if a dealer judges that a car with paint/body work has been repaired to its pre-damage condition, they will sell it as a CPO vehicle, and the dealer is not legally required to disclose that the car has had paint/body repairs. Whether the dealer has an ethical obligation to do so is a different question.

Dealers can charge very high prices for CPO vehicles and prices that are open to minimal or no negotiations because they know that most potential buyers have no idea how much discounting is available on the new cars, and those buyers have no idea that they could buy a brand new current model year vehicle for very little more than they would have to pay for a one year old CPO vehicle.

davycreed

It probably won’t qualify as a lemon but may fall under implied warranty, and fit for use laws as well as consumer protection act for full disclosure. There are so many scams Toyota Lexus and BMW that I now tell my friends get your self a new car fax a week or so after you get it. They get it repaired trade it in and if the dealership gets stuck they offload as soon as possible. Join Lexus Driver for free you can get entire service history for free look up original specs it was delivered with

PWMDMD

I had 2010 Honda Pilot t-boned with $18K in damage. 2014 Audi S5 rear ended with $3500 damage and a 2014 Mazda3 backed into by truck with $9K in damages. None of these were ever reported to Carfax and no dealership ever asked me if the car had ever been in an accident. They simply ask for the Vin and do their own due diligence and when the Carfax comes up clean THEY DON'T WANT TO KNOW if the car was in an accident.

Carfax is often useless.....

ravenuer

Next time it's your turn to drive, I think I'll take a cab.....!

PWMDMD

Right? I've never actually been in the car during any of these accidents. All my wife (Pilot) or parking lot mishaps (Audi and Mazda3)...