Is this a joke?? 25% more hp and 30% better mpg for $250 from water??
04-25-01, 09:49 AM
#16
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turboderek
I don't know what mods you have to you car but you would need a a very high compression engine.
I'm more concerned with highway acceleration than 0-60, 0-60 I don't get to use much but highway I would probably use quite often, few times a week if possible.
When i asked on another forum i was told "If you are running 10.3 to 1 compression, the timing advance you will gain by inhibiting the "knock" tendencies will make a substancial difference on their own."
does that sound correct?
04-27-01, 08:46 PM
#19
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I don't think it possible to advance the timing on these cars (400's) with out installing a timing computer of some sort. Any good performance shop should carry these, I know NOPI sells them however installing it is another story. You would have to find someone who really knows what there doing. Is it worth the $250 I can't say. It will do what is advertised but I don't know if it would be the % they claim.As far as the factory ECU advancing the timing I don't know to what extent it would. Advanceing the timing does not move the power band up, it actually gives you a more noticeible increase in the bottom end. On a turbo car for example the turbo would spool faster with more timing but it would need to be retard once in boost to provide optimum power and no detonation. I used to own a Trans am v8 with a turbo when I retarded the timing the car would bog off the line, when I advance the timing it would rip the tires first and part of second .If the water runs out you will burn the pump and if detonates excesivly you could do serious engine damage. Hope this helps.
04-30-03, 11:06 PM
#20
Hassi,
Don't let the young folks who are skeptical of water injection throw you off. Anyone who was around in the late 60's hot rod scene can tell you that this was a common solution to prevent detonation. The only alternative was to get aviation fuel or add expensive octane booster.
Water injection in your stock LS will provide you with 2 choices:
1. Add water injection and you can start using regular gas with no loss of performance or mileage.
2. Add water injection, continue using premium, and bump the timing advance. Since the computer on the Lexus will retard the timing when detonation is detected I do not know how much you can advance it (or even how to do it.) Maybe someone else can help out here.
There are side benefits from water injection. Your intake, valves, and cylinders will be REALLY clean! Your sparkplugs will not acquire the usual deposit buildup and can operate at a higher effeciency through their life cycle.
Putting water into the running engine intake is still a standard shop procedure today by experienced techs to see if a valve miss might simply be some minor deposit buildup.
A quality water injection system on the Lexus will need to draw from the windshield washer reservoir (no room for a separate bottle) and should inject a fine mist in front of the throttle body butterfly plate during acceleration. The vacuum switch (mounted in the main part of the throttle body) will need adjusting so that it is off at idle and cruise. You will probably need to wire an LED into the circuit and tuck it into the dash somewhere to help you get this adjusted correctly.
Don't let the young folks who are skeptical of water injection throw you off. Anyone who was around in the late 60's hot rod scene can tell you that this was a common solution to prevent detonation. The only alternative was to get aviation fuel or add expensive octane booster.
Water injection in your stock LS will provide you with 2 choices:
1. Add water injection and you can start using regular gas with no loss of performance or mileage.
2. Add water injection, continue using premium, and bump the timing advance. Since the computer on the Lexus will retard the timing when detonation is detected I do not know how much you can advance it (or even how to do it.) Maybe someone else can help out here.
There are side benefits from water injection. Your intake, valves, and cylinders will be REALLY clean! Your sparkplugs will not acquire the usual deposit buildup and can operate at a higher effeciency through their life cycle.
Putting water into the running engine intake is still a standard shop procedure today by experienced techs to see if a valve miss might simply be some minor deposit buildup.
A quality water injection system on the Lexus will need to draw from the windshield washer reservoir (no room for a separate bottle) and should inject a fine mist in front of the throttle body butterfly plate during acceleration. The vacuum switch (mounted in the main part of the throttle body) will need adjusting so that it is off at idle and cruise. You will probably need to wire an LED into the circuit and tuck it into the dash somewhere to help you get this adjusted correctly.
04-30-03, 11:25 PM
#22
Keeper of the light
iTrader: (17)
Here's some info you may want to read up on concerning Latent heat.
Water molecules can move in three ways (and only three ways), they are vibration, rotation, and translation. A solid substance (e.g. ice) can only vibrate. Hit ice with a rock hammer and you will see all sorts of vibration. A liquid substance can vibrate and rotate. A gaseous substance can do all three (vibrate, rotate and move from place to place without being bound to other neighbor water molecules).
When water (in any of the three phrases) moves from a higher to a lower ordered state, the air surrounding the H20 will cool. The three processes which cool the surrounding air are evaporation, melting and sublimation (solid to gas). When water (in any of the three phrases) moves form a lower to a higher ordered state, the air surrounding the H20 will warm. This is called a release of latent heat (e.g. when heat is subtracted from liquid water, the individual water molecules will slow down). They eventually slow down to the point at which the hydrogen bonds do not allow the liquid to rotate anymore. Ice now develops. The energy the water molecules once had to rotate has been given up to the surrounding air) The three processes which warm the surrounding air are condensation, freezing and deposition (gas to solid).
Water molecules can move in three ways (and only three ways), they are vibration, rotation, and translation. A solid substance (e.g. ice) can only vibrate. Hit ice with a rock hammer and you will see all sorts of vibration. A liquid substance can vibrate and rotate. A gaseous substance can do all three (vibrate, rotate and move from place to place without being bound to other neighbor water molecules).
When water (in any of the three phrases) moves from a higher to a lower ordered state, the air surrounding the H20 will cool. The three processes which cool the surrounding air are evaporation, melting and sublimation (solid to gas). When water (in any of the three phrases) moves form a lower to a higher ordered state, the air surrounding the H20 will warm. This is called a release of latent heat (e.g. when heat is subtracted from liquid water, the individual water molecules will slow down). They eventually slow down to the point at which the hydrogen bonds do not allow the liquid to rotate anymore. Ice now develops. The energy the water molecules once had to rotate has been given up to the surrounding air) The three processes which warm the surrounding air are condensation, freezing and deposition (gas to solid).
Last edited by O. L. T.; 04-30-03 at 11:26 PM.
04-30-03, 11:37 PM
#23
Keeper of the light
iTrader: (17)
by the way, for anyone that didn't take Chem, the reason why the air get's cooler is In the process of vaporizing, energy is consumed from the hot air, thereby reducing its temperature.
04-30-03, 11:47 PM
#24
Keeper of the light
iTrader: (17)
AND... (no, i'm not done yet) don't be fooled into thinking that the heat is what cause it to evaporate. there are certain criteria that needs to be met inside the engine before any of this water injection can help you a bit.
Often, people say that cold air can't hold as much water vapor as warmer air. This error is even found in some textbooks. The speeds of water molecules determine condensation and evaporation rates. All molecules move, even in ice and other solids. Molecules move much more rapidly in gaseous state than in a solid. Water molecules vibrate back and forth in a ice cube, but move randomly in liquid and gas states.
The conditions must be right for the molecules to evaporate or your engine will end up with damaging water. this is why the turbo cars are so much more effected by the injection. They meet the conditions to exite the speed of the molecules.
It's also why it doesn't work in N/A cars as well.
Often, people say that cold air can't hold as much water vapor as warmer air. This error is even found in some textbooks. The speeds of water molecules determine condensation and evaporation rates. All molecules move, even in ice and other solids. Molecules move much more rapidly in gaseous state than in a solid. Water molecules vibrate back and forth in a ice cube, but move randomly in liquid and gas states.
The conditions must be right for the molecules to evaporate or your engine will end up with damaging water. this is why the turbo cars are so much more effected by the injection. They meet the conditions to exite the speed of the molecules.
It's also why it doesn't work in N/A cars as well.
05-01-03, 07:26 AM
#26
Lexus Test Driver
I dont know about NA cars, but i have it on my turbo car right now and its true and it works.
i dont know about aquatune, but i have the aquamist system. Check out this turbo MR2 aka "The Beast" He has dyno charts and with pix of his water injection install.
http://www.mr2beast.com/wi.htm
his dyno charts are on another part of his website. Im not sure if he has changed the site or not but check it out.
i dont know about aquatune, but i have the aquamist system. Check out this turbo MR2 aka "The Beast" He has dyno charts and with pix of his water injection install.
http://www.mr2beast.com/wi.htm
his dyno charts are on another part of his website. Im not sure if he has changed the site or not but check it out.
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