Let's Settle This!!!
06-06-01, 04:56 AM
#16
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I'm talkin' strictly SC400 here and it didn't come in a 5 speed manual. Come on. This is a luxury coupe plain and simple.
My brother owns a toyota supra and I see no resemblance. I keep hearing that, but to me the Supra is yet another Toyota monstrosity. The wheel flares are way to bulbous. The interior I see no resemblance either. The horseshoe center console pod in the Lex is nowhere to be found in the Supra, and the Supra center console is angled towards the driver ala the Mitsubishi Eclipse. I don't see the resemblance honestly.
Have you ever been inside of an M1 Abrams Tank? Scary how it resembles a GS. Even has the same night vision gauges in the interior. :-)
The New SC is NOT setup like the GS. The SC has elegant badges in its' pods while the GS has indiglo gimmickry. It's just not luxury man!
As far as the styling. The SC is already being hailed as a classic car design. Will the GS ever get that label....NO! And you know that is the truth. The SC design lasted 10 years in production. The GS went from plain vanilla (the original 300) to the creature from the black lagoon styling. I'm not saying all this just to keep this thread interesting, but I really think the GS is too big and ungainly.
Hey, the Pontiac Aztek is still around and the AMC Gremlin was in production for 6 years. Are those cars ugly??
Is this fun or what? I was going to suggest ending this thread but judging by the number of views everyone is enjoying this as much as we are.
My brother owns a toyota supra and I see no resemblance. I keep hearing that, but to me the Supra is yet another Toyota monstrosity. The wheel flares are way to bulbous. The interior I see no resemblance either. The horseshoe center console pod in the Lex is nowhere to be found in the Supra, and the Supra center console is angled towards the driver ala the Mitsubishi Eclipse. I don't see the resemblance honestly.
Have you ever been inside of an M1 Abrams Tank? Scary how it resembles a GS. Even has the same night vision gauges in the interior. :-)
The New SC is NOT setup like the GS. The SC has elegant badges in its' pods while the GS has indiglo gimmickry. It's just not luxury man!
As far as the styling. The SC is already being hailed as a classic car design. Will the GS ever get that label....NO! And you know that is the truth. The SC design lasted 10 years in production. The GS went from plain vanilla (the original 300) to the creature from the black lagoon styling. I'm not saying all this just to keep this thread interesting, but I really think the GS is too big and ungainly.
Hey, the Pontiac Aztek is still around and the AMC Gremlin was in production for 6 years. Are those cars ugly??
Is this fun or what? I was going to suggest ending this thread but judging by the number of views everyone is enjoying this as much as we are.
06-06-01, 06:51 AM
#17
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WHAT???
Originally posted by hoops_24
Have you ever been inside of an M1 Abrams Tank? Scary how it resembles a GS. Even has the same night vision gauges in the interior. :-)
The New SC is NOT setup like the GS. The SC has elegant badges in its' pods while the GS has indiglo gimmickry. It's just not luxury man!
As far as the styling. The SC is already being hailed as a classic car design. Will the GS ever get that label....NO! And you know that is the truth. The SC design lasted 10 years in production. The GS went from plain vanilla (the original 300) to the creature from the black lagoon styling. I'm not saying all this just to keep this thread interesting, but I really think the GS is too big and ungainly.
Is this fun or what? I was going to suggest ending this thread but judging by the number of views everyone is enjoying this as much as we are.
Have you ever been inside of an M1 Abrams Tank? Scary how it resembles a GS. Even has the same night vision gauges in the interior. :-)
The New SC is NOT setup like the GS. The SC has elegant badges in its' pods while the GS has indiglo gimmickry. It's just not luxury man!
As far as the styling. The SC is already being hailed as a classic car design. Will the GS ever get that label....NO! And you know that is the truth. The SC design lasted 10 years in production. The GS went from plain vanilla (the original 300) to the creature from the black lagoon styling. I'm not saying all this just to keep this thread interesting, but I really think the GS is too big and ungainly.
Is this fun or what? I was going to suggest ending this thread but judging by the number of views everyone is enjoying this as much as we are.
You take that back, man, or I'm gonna set 1SICKLEX on you.......
Creature from the black lagoon???? What you talking about......
C.
06-08-01, 10:44 PM
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While I was driving on the freeway yesterday, I thought I saw a 2001 TOYOTA AVALON or something. BUT! It turned out to be the "latest" model of the GS-4s. It's already beginning to look DIFFERENT from the '98 models. The way I see it, hoops is right. It is going "bye-bye". Imagine, the SC-4s stayed the same STYLE and BODY (w/ few modifications ofcourse) for almost SEVEN YEARS!!!! That's why it NEVER got played out. Compared to them Honda Civic's whose body style changes every damn year to attract "consumers." BUT the SC-4 didn't need any of that tactic. It's the **** the car! Although I think alot of cars are THE ****! (e.g. Audi S4, NSX, Benz CL-600!, Jag X-Type 2.5 Sport)
Oh, and lol. One of the reasons why I have my SC (1992) is because of those HIP signal lights. HAHA. Although it cracked me UP how manaray decribed them. I gotta admit, that was a good one. *STILL LAUGHING*
sxys_sc4
PS: GO LAKERS!
Oh, and lol. One of the reasons why I have my SC (1992) is because of those HIP signal lights. HAHA. Although it cracked me UP how manaray decribed them. I gotta admit, that was a good one. *STILL LAUGHING*
sxys_sc4
PS: GO LAKERS!
06-09-01, 03:02 AM
#19
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Hoops - GS NEVER came in STICK IN ANY FORM. The only difference between the SC4 and the SC3 was the motor and tranny (auto vs. stick). It's still the same basic car. The equipped the SC3 with a stick because they felt it was a SPORTY car...THE SC WAS DESIGN TO BE SPORTY. That's why it's a COUPE!
And you REALLY see NO resemblance with the Supra? COME ON! The basic shape is the same except that the SC is more rounded! I would say the SC's interior is a mix between a GS/LS interior and a Supra's interior.
And yes, as a matter of fact, I've been in a M1 Abrams. Nothing like any car that I've seen. I know you're being sarcastic but you have to admit, the Supra and the SC are pretty damn close...
The SC and GS's gauges look totally similiar except for the backlit part
Yes, the AMC Gremlin is UGLY and it was produced for 6 years...so what's your point? The SC was produced for 8, does that make it MORE UGLY?
Let's look at the timeline for all the Lexus cars (except the IS)...
The SC went for 5 year's without much of change. Then it went on for another 3 years with a medium change before a redesign.
The GS went 5 years and then was redesigned and is still going and it's current design will last 5 years also.
The LS went for 5 years then was redesigned and went on for 3 years before a medium change which then lasted 3 years before a redesign.
The ES went for 7 years and then was redesigned which has lasted 5 years and may last 6.
So by your arguement, the ES is as good of a looking car as the SC because it too had a long run but the LS should be classified as ugly as the GS because it had shorter design life spans. That's nonsense! The design lifespan has nothing to do with a cars beauty...
You may not like the GS's style but evidently, many do. The GS's sales numbers don't lie. I don't think most people buy a $40K to $57 car that they think is ugly. Personally, I love the "muscular" styling of the newer GS...
Hoops, do you like the BMW 840/850's? How about the Mercedes SL?
sxys_sc4 - How do you know it was a GS? Toyota is also testing the "Mark II" in the states...and I should HOPE if it was the new GS that it looked different from the '98...that body style is already 4 years old and I know it'll make it to at least 5...I think if a new GS was to show up in 2002, we would have gotten wind of it already (like the SC)...personally, I agree with some others that Lexus is waiting for the new E and new 5 series...but who knows, maybe Lexus will surprise us?
And you REALLY see NO resemblance with the Supra? COME ON! The basic shape is the same except that the SC is more rounded! I would say the SC's interior is a mix between a GS/LS interior and a Supra's interior.
And yes, as a matter of fact, I've been in a M1 Abrams. Nothing like any car that I've seen. I know you're being sarcastic but you have to admit, the Supra and the SC are pretty damn close...
The SC and GS's gauges look totally similiar except for the backlit part
Yes, the AMC Gremlin is UGLY and it was produced for 6 years...so what's your point? The SC was produced for 8, does that make it MORE UGLY?
Let's look at the timeline for all the Lexus cars (except the IS)...
The SC went for 5 year's without much of change. Then it went on for another 3 years with a medium change before a redesign.
The GS went 5 years and then was redesigned and is still going and it's current design will last 5 years also.
The LS went for 5 years then was redesigned and went on for 3 years before a medium change which then lasted 3 years before a redesign.
The ES went for 7 years and then was redesigned which has lasted 5 years and may last 6.
So by your arguement, the ES is as good of a looking car as the SC because it too had a long run but the LS should be classified as ugly as the GS because it had shorter design life spans. That's nonsense! The design lifespan has nothing to do with a cars beauty...
You may not like the GS's style but evidently, many do. The GS's sales numbers don't lie. I don't think most people buy a $40K to $57 car that they think is ugly. Personally, I love the "muscular" styling of the newer GS...
Hoops, do you like the BMW 840/850's? How about the Mercedes SL?
sxys_sc4 - How do you know it was a GS? Toyota is also testing the "Mark II" in the states...and I should HOPE if it was the new GS that it looked different from the '98...that body style is already 4 years old and I know it'll make it to at least 5...I think if a new GS was to show up in 2002, we would have gotten wind of it already (like the SC)...personally, I agree with some others that Lexus is waiting for the new E and new 5 series...but who knows, maybe Lexus will surprise us?
06-09-01, 05:45 AM
#20
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Manny- No, I never liked the look of the 850 BMW. Too angular for me. Everytime I see one it reminds of the Delorean. Not a fan at all.
The SL on the other hand is one of the finest automtive designs out there. My whole thing is simple clean lines. I don't like alot of character lines on the side, but I love the crease on the side of the SC. To me that's what makes it a classic and I also believe it inspired alot of car designs. (Jaguar S-Type?)
As far as your email you completely lost me. I don't believe sales has anything to do with a beautiful design. If that was the case then Infinity J30 would still be in production. I loved the original J30t and think it will also go down as an example of bold but clean styling.
"The only difference between an SC3 and SC4 is the motor and tranny." That's a pretty big chunk of the vehicle don't you think. They're two different cars meant to supply two different segments of the populice.
And what's up with the two stop lights on the trunk off the GS that make the car look like a cross-eyed alcoholic when viwing it from the back. If it wasn't for those lights, the design may have grew on me. Big mistake. I do give credit for getting rid of the 2 foot tall yellow fog lamps and replacing with clear on the new 430. Those things could bring a ship in through the fog!
Lexus can do better.
The SL on the other hand is one of the finest automtive designs out there. My whole thing is simple clean lines. I don't like alot of character lines on the side, but I love the crease on the side of the SC. To me that's what makes it a classic and I also believe it inspired alot of car designs. (Jaguar S-Type?)
As far as your email you completely lost me. I don't believe sales has anything to do with a beautiful design. If that was the case then Infinity J30 would still be in production. I loved the original J30t and think it will also go down as an example of bold but clean styling.
"The only difference between an SC3 and SC4 is the motor and tranny." That's a pretty big chunk of the vehicle don't you think. They're two different cars meant to supply two different segments of the populice.
And what's up with the two stop lights on the trunk off the GS that make the car look like a cross-eyed alcoholic when viwing it from the back. If it wasn't for those lights, the design may have grew on me. Big mistake. I do give credit for getting rid of the 2 foot tall yellow fog lamps and replacing with clear on the new 430. Those things could bring a ship in through the fog!
Lexus can do better.
06-09-01, 08:47 AM
#21
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Originally posted by hoops_24
And what's up with the two stop lights on the trunk off the GS that make the car look like a cross-eyed alcoholic when viwing it from the back. If it wasn't for those lights, the design may have grew on me. Big mistake. I do give credit for getting rid of the 2 foot tall yellow fog lamps and replacing with clear on the new 430. Those things could bring a ship in through the fog!
And what's up with the two stop lights on the trunk off the GS that make the car look like a cross-eyed alcoholic when viwing it from the back. If it wasn't for those lights, the design may have grew on me. Big mistake. I do give credit for getting rid of the 2 foot tall yellow fog lamps and replacing with clear on the new 430. Those things could bring a ship in through the fog!
About ClubLexus being a "lovefest"....Let me explain. People here RESPECT each other regardless of individual opinions, and most people here seem to really appreciate those values, what is wrong with that?!?!?
06-09-01, 09:28 AM
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I knoooooow im askin' for it...but I have to defend my 'love' .....The E31 makes the lexus look and feel like the Toyota it is....In EVERY way it is a far better car.
I love the SC400, but it does come in Second...IMHO
I love the SC400, but it does come in Second...IMHO
06-09-01, 11:27 AM
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Yes, it was a GS-4. How do I know? I literally tail-gated it. That's how I know.
When the body of a car doesn't change for years, it means that it no need no "further" eye-catching factors for people to buy it. Didn't the GS come out in 98? The new style I mean? It's only been 3 years and they're beginning to change it already. HOWCOME?
GO LAKERS!
sxys_sc4
When the body of a car doesn't change for years, it means that it no need no "further" eye-catching factors for people to buy it. Didn't the GS come out in 98? The new style I mean? It's only been 3 years and they're beginning to change it already. HOWCOME?
GO LAKERS!
sxys_sc4
06-09-01, 09:33 PM
#26
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Hoops: Hehehe...now you see, I hate the SL (I think it looks so plain and boring) but I like the 840/850's...
I think sales, when you go into "luxury" cars does make a difference. People would not spend that kind of money on cars that are ugly...
As for the J30, initially, I thought they were ugly...but the design grew on me...
As for the Motor and Tranny difference, other than the speed/acceleration difference and the shifting difference, the two cars (SC300 and SC400) are basically the same. If Lexus didn't intend for the SC to be considered SPORT first, then it would have NEVER give a stick option.
As for the rear taillights, like gs4power said, I like the inner tail lights and I too think that it was a good move on Toyota's part...
Miguel - I think people can still respect other's opinions and still put out some critizism that isn't "padded"...
sxys_sc4 - The current JZS-16x body style is 4 years old (98, 99, 00, 01) and it's probably going to last to 5 years (02 model). I think that's pretty good before a body change.
importtoys - I like the E31 840's also...but I don't know if I'd take it over my GS430...
I think sales, when you go into "luxury" cars does make a difference. People would not spend that kind of money on cars that are ugly...
As for the J30, initially, I thought they were ugly...but the design grew on me...
As for the Motor and Tranny difference, other than the speed/acceleration difference and the shifting difference, the two cars (SC300 and SC400) are basically the same. If Lexus didn't intend for the SC to be considered SPORT first, then it would have NEVER give a stick option.
As for the rear taillights, like gs4power said, I like the inner tail lights and I too think that it was a good move on Toyota's part...
Miguel - I think people can still respect other's opinions and still put out some critizism that isn't "padded"...
sxys_sc4 - The current JZS-16x body style is 4 years old (98, 99, 00, 01) and it's probably going to last to 5 years (02 model). I think that's pretty good before a body change.
importtoys - I like the E31 840's also...but I don't know if I'd take it over my GS430...
06-10-01, 07:35 AM
#27
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Manny, We are obviously situated on opposite ends of the styling spectrum. I like "clean and boring", you like "big and ungainly" To each his own my brother.
Sexy SC. Thanks for the props on my rims. Finally someone that appreciates understated style.
I know you guys don't honestly like the tail lamps on the GS. Nobody likes them including all of the major car mags. It's almost like putting directional blinkers on kids' lunch boxes....I see the point but unnecessary :-)
I saw a GS on the road today and I literally followed it and stared at it to try and find something I liked about the shape. I admit, I like the front portion from the A-pillar forward. After that it's all downhill. Something just isn't right with the car. No flowing lines, just big hunks of flat metal. What a waste! BTW, I followed the GS into a gas station and the owner approached me and was creaming all over my car. I thought the guy was gonna have an orgasm on the spot. I told him about a guy named Manaray that thinks the GS was the nicest car money can buy. After he stopped laughing he told me he wanted a BMW 540 but went the frugal route. Poor guy, he should have got the BMW.
Come on Manny, have you ever seen a hood or roofline as sexy as the SC's? Be honest.
BTW, I also like the GS interior except for the Casio inspired indiglo instruments. They should also tone down on the wood treatment in the newer model. Once again, just too much!
The BMW is a far better car than the Lexus SC. What would I do if I had an 850? I would sell it and purchase an SC and a Harley softtail. With the remaining 20k I would invest in Casio stock since they seem to have a joint venture with Lexus designing ugly instruments (IS300, GS 4's)
Sexy SC. Thanks for the props on my rims. Finally someone that appreciates understated style.
I know you guys don't honestly like the tail lamps on the GS. Nobody likes them including all of the major car mags. It's almost like putting directional blinkers on kids' lunch boxes....I see the point but unnecessary :-)
I saw a GS on the road today and I literally followed it and stared at it to try and find something I liked about the shape. I admit, I like the front portion from the A-pillar forward. After that it's all downhill. Something just isn't right with the car. No flowing lines, just big hunks of flat metal. What a waste! BTW, I followed the GS into a gas station and the owner approached me and was creaming all over my car. I thought the guy was gonna have an orgasm on the spot. I told him about a guy named Manaray that thinks the GS was the nicest car money can buy. After he stopped laughing he told me he wanted a BMW 540 but went the frugal route. Poor guy, he should have got the BMW.
Come on Manny, have you ever seen a hood or roofline as sexy as the SC's? Be honest.
BTW, I also like the GS interior except for the Casio inspired indiglo instruments. They should also tone down on the wood treatment in the newer model. Once again, just too much!
The BMW is a far better car than the Lexus SC. What would I do if I had an 850? I would sell it and purchase an SC and a Harley softtail. With the remaining 20k I would invest in Casio stock since they seem to have a joint venture with Lexus designing ugly instruments (IS300, GS 4's)
Last edited by hoops_24; 06-10-01 at 07:40 AM.
06-10-01, 08:26 AM
#28
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Originally posted by sxys_sc4
Yes, it was a GS-4. How do I know? I literally tail-gated it. That's how I know.
When the body of a car doesn't change for years, it means that it no need no "further" eye-catching factors for people to buy it. Didn't the GS come out in 98? The new style I mean? It's only been 3 years and they're beginning to change it already. HOWCOME?
GO LAKERS!
sxys_sc4
Yes, it was a GS-4. How do I know? I literally tail-gated it. That's how I know.
When the body of a car doesn't change for years, it means that it no need no "further" eye-catching factors for people to buy it. Didn't the GS come out in 98? The new style I mean? It's only been 3 years and they're beginning to change it already. HOWCOME?
GO LAKERS!
sxys_sc4
I have a '98 GS400 and an '01 GS430 on order. Other than the tail lights there have been no exterior changes since '98.
---------------------
BTW, I've read that one of the primary reasons that the SC remained basically unchanged for so long is that Lexus was putting money into other cars like the GS, the revised LS and the IS. The SC was being pretty much ignored while Lexus put its investment into broadening its product line. It saved money by letting the model continue because it cost virtually nothing to do so. In marketing terms Lexus chose to milk the cash cow for most of its life while re-investing in new models. They needed something to fill the model line in addition to the LS and ES and the SC was it.
Hoops, I will agree with you about one thing. I have always found the SC's appearance to be boring. I drove an SC400 the first month they were out and was unimpressed. I still find it an unimpressive vehicle. Almost made it to being impressive, but never quite. And even the press, once the novelty of a Lexus coupe wore off, spent most of its seven years ignoring it.
I'm glad you like it. You have every right to. To me it's bland. I'll take my GSs over the SC (old or new version) without a moment's hesitation.
And while I can appreciate what Lexus tried to do with the new SC -- it's not bland and it does meet the criteria of a luxury 2 (plus 2) seater -- it's butt ugly.
Last edited by RealMarty; 06-10-01 at 09:36 AM.
06-10-01, 06:33 PM
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Marty, glad you could join the discussion. Unfortunately, nothing you said makes any sense to me.
It cost no money to continue the SC? I guess the engine upgrade from 250hp to 290hp was done free of charge by the Lexus engineers. I also guess the suspension enhancements were done at sweat shops in Taiwan.
SC ignored? Here's a challenge for anyone on these posts. If you can find TWO magazine articles in the last year that puts a GS up against a BMW or Mercedes sedan in its class, I will post a picture of me kissing the back of a GS. The mags need to be Car & Driver, Motor Trend, or Road & Track. That will prove what vehicle is being ignored!
The SC is not bland and no one has said that. The SC is a gorgeous automobile and didn't need to be changed. Why mess with a perfect design? My car STILL illicits too many stares and thumbs up to handle.
Do me a favor and rethink that GS430 order. Get a luxury vehicle that LOOKS like a luxury vehicle.
It cost no money to continue the SC? I guess the engine upgrade from 250hp to 290hp was done free of charge by the Lexus engineers. I also guess the suspension enhancements were done at sweat shops in Taiwan.
SC ignored? Here's a challenge for anyone on these posts. If you can find TWO magazine articles in the last year that puts a GS up against a BMW or Mercedes sedan in its class, I will post a picture of me kissing the back of a GS. The mags need to be Car & Driver, Motor Trend, or Road & Track. That will prove what vehicle is being ignored!
The SC is not bland and no one has said that. The SC is a gorgeous automobile and didn't need to be changed. Why mess with a perfect design? My car STILL illicits too many stares and thumbs up to handle.
Do me a favor and rethink that GS430 order. Get a luxury vehicle that LOOKS like a luxury vehicle.
06-10-01, 07:45 PM
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Originally posted by hoops_24
Marty, glad you could join the discussion. Unfortunately, nothing you said makes any sense to me.
It cost no money to continue the SC? I guess the engine upgrade from 250hp to 290hp was done free of charge by the Lexus engineers. I also guess the suspension enhancements were done at sweat shops in Taiwan.
Compared to developing a new car, the changes made to the SC were chump change. The engine was a derivation of the existing V8 in the LS and the suspension -- well whatever it cost to do the mod was cheap to keep the SC "new"-- gotta make some changes to a car that's getting long in the tooth, even if it's a cash cow.
The SC is not bland and no one has said that. The SC is a gorgeous automobile and didn't need to be changed. Why mess with a perfect design? My car STILL illicits too many stares and thumbs up to handle.
To me it's bland -- that's the way it strikes me. It's not ugly. It just doesn't stir anything in me. And when I drove the SC400 it left me cold. I see them on the road all the time and my reaction is always -- so what? But if it floats your boat. I think that's great.
Do me a favor and rethink that GS430 order. Get a luxury vehicle that LOOKS like a luxury vehicle.
Marty, glad you could join the discussion. Unfortunately, nothing you said makes any sense to me.
It cost no money to continue the SC? I guess the engine upgrade from 250hp to 290hp was done free of charge by the Lexus engineers. I also guess the suspension enhancements were done at sweat shops in Taiwan.
Compared to developing a new car, the changes made to the SC were chump change. The engine was a derivation of the existing V8 in the LS and the suspension -- well whatever it cost to do the mod was cheap to keep the SC "new"-- gotta make some changes to a car that's getting long in the tooth, even if it's a cash cow.
The SC is not bland and no one has said that. The SC is a gorgeous automobile and didn't need to be changed. Why mess with a perfect design? My car STILL illicits too many stares and thumbs up to handle.
To me it's bland -- that's the way it strikes me. It's not ugly. It just doesn't stir anything in me. And when I drove the SC400 it left me cold. I see them on the road all the time and my reaction is always -- so what? But if it floats your boat. I think that's great.
Do me a favor and rethink that GS430 order. Get a luxury vehicle that LOOKS like a luxury vehicle.
Look, I'm pleased that you are into your SC the way you are. I really am. And I'm happy that it does it for you. That's a damn good reason to own it. It just doesn't do it for me.
For whatever reason I get off on the GS -- the looks, the feel, the responsiveness, the visceral effect of flooring the accelerator, the whole gestaldt. It works for me in a way the SC never did.
Last edited by RealMarty; 06-10-01 at 07:51 PM.