OK

Friday I was pulled over for speeding. My 3rd SPEEDING ticket within a year (not to mention the two accident tickets, well actually 1 accident ticket, the other I didnt get a ticket, but my insurance still ended up paying for my car, so its on my record.)

This one was complete bull**** though. He "clocked" me going 66 in a 35. Heres the thing, I never went over 55, and I saw that rat bastard as soon as he saw me, so theres no way in hell he could have clocked me (he was coming AT me, driving, and Im 90% sure that our local police department does not own any radar guns with that technology, i think they only have radar guns where you have to be stationary to radar.) Soon as I see him I slowed down to 45 or so. (Didnt want to make it to obvious that I was speeding)

He flips a ***** and comes up behind me and pulls me over (godamnit I wish I had that turbokit so I could of out ran his punkass.)

He asks for my license yada yada yada, and then he asks me an interesting question. He says "Dont you have a radar detector?" I look at him like hes crazy and say, No I swear I don't, where did you get that idea. He gives me some smug *** look and then comes the question of death. "How fast you think you were going." I COMPLETELY screw it up in my nervousness and say "Around 55." DAMNIT! WHy couldnt I just say "I dont know?!?!!?!" Way to admit Im guilty eh? Anyways then the pig says "I clocked you going 66 on my radar." WTF? I just look at him and say OK. So anyways I know theres no point arguing with a pig on the scene (especially when your my age), so he gives me my ticket and we go our seperate ways.

Is it just me or was that whole radar detector question he asked me just because he wanted to make sure that I didnt know that he WASN't radaring via a radar detector.

If it weren't for saying that I thought I was going 55, I think I would easily be able to get out of this, but I did.

Anyone have any advice? Im submitting a request for discovery tommorow, and asking for the officers notes, and radar owners handbook. With that I should be able to determine whether he CAN radar me when hes driving at me. Im also thinking that since the officer lied about radaring me, that I will have no trouble lying about admitting that I was going 55. If I can prove that the officer is a liar with the radar evidence, then maybe the judge will belive that he made the whole thing up, and I was not speeding at all. (Or maybe as soon as I prove the officer lied the judge will dismiss it?) (god I wish I was older, judges tend not to belive 17 yr olds.) Oh also, is there any way for me to have a trial by jury? It IS a class C (or maybe B) misdemeanor in my city, so I belive it is a criminal charge. And since it is criminal (i think it is anyway), doesent that mean that the judge has to find me guilty beyond a reasonable doubt?

Anyways, help would be great, if I dont win this ticket, no more lex for a long, long time.

Jason

 

Its unfortunate that cops pick on us young guys since we drive nice cars. I got pulled over on my way to school because the cop thought i didn't have my seat belt on. I did of course, yet that didn't stop him from giving me a 10 minute lecture on the effects of not having your seatbelt on in a crash. I was almost late to class. Luckily, unlike in your case, the officer believed that i did have my seatbelt on and he didn't ticket me. Good luck on getting your ticket fixed.

 

Not sure about Utah, but here's how the scenario unfolds in CA...

Cop doesn't have to prove he used radar or even show you how fast he clocked you. He can cite you tickets by eying you and estimating your approximate speed.

In a 35mph zone, 66mph is the magic number that categorizes you as exhibition of speed (+30mph over the posted speed limit). That is a 1 to 2 point count on your license and around a $300 ticket. In CA, 4 points in 12 months labels you a wreckless driver and they can suspend your license for it for 1 month in the courts plus an additional 6 months through the DMV. If you're 17, you're screwed because your driver's license is still provisional until you're 18.

If he asks you "how fast do you think you were going?" you can't sneak out of it by saying "I don't know". He'll follow up by asking you to "guess or estimate how fast you think you were going". If you keep going back and forth like that with him, he'll think you're getting smart with him. You're better off saying you went the exact speed limit and sticking by it.

The ways to fight the ticket is first a trial by decoration. Write a letter to the judge to appeal the ticket. Never admit guilt in the letter. If that fails, you have one more chance to appeal in person at court. Usually you're screwed this way because cops always show up to court. They get paid overtime pay for doing so. So unless you absolutely didn't break the law, did so out of emergency (extenuated circumstance), or were coerced into doing so by a cop (entrapment), you have no chance in hell to win in court.

 

Oh and another thing, take note on what comes in the mail. If you get a letter from the court that asks you to pay a fine, that's good news. If you get a letter that says you have a court date, that is BAD news.

 

Cops that regularly ride in a cruiser usually take a course that teaches them to estimate speed. It's no bull, I actually did a ride-along where we hit a couple cars with the radar gun while the cop estimated the speed of the same car by eye. No joke, he was accurate to within 1-3mph. Not only that, but the speedometer on their cruisers is usually calibrated, therefore they will claim they can gauge your speed in comparison to theirs, and they will have no problem with showing the documentation for the speedo calibration to the judge. lex400sc is right, never plead guilty, fight it all, strict denial. Request a supporting deposition and get an adjournment, hopefully the cop won't show (they can't show up for every court appearance), if that happens they'll probably adjourn you one additional time, if the cop is a no-show after that, they'll dismiss. Otherwise, if the ADA won't offer you a decent compromise (i.e. seat belt/stop sign), get yourself a lawyer and let him take care of it, it's not worth a license suspension.
- Jon

 

Do you think that a lawyer would be able to get me out of this?

 

I have a saying:

A good lawyer knows the law, a great one knows the judge.

When I slammed my SC400 into a wall going 80MPH and blew a 0.06 (law was 0.1 at the time) , and that was my 3rd major traffic violation in 2 yrs (1 speeding over 100 mph, the other reckless driving), Indiana was trying to take my license under the Habitual Traffic Violator law. 3 strikes your out.

My first attorney charged me $750 and we entered a guilty plea trying to get a reduced sentence. It looked bad, I was facing losing my license for 10 years, undergo alcohol and drug classes 3 times a week. I told my attorney this would not work and asked what could I do. He referred me to the *best* attorney around one who got DR J out of a mess many years ago.

He (the attorney) first gave me a lecture on the dangers of speed and how angry he would have been if I hurt one of his loved ones, then told me it would cost me $10,000 to make it go away. He asked for $5,000 up front, in cash.

All I can say, is at the trial, the Prosecuter was pissed! He objected when we withdrew the guilty plea ( the judge overruled) and 'strongly' objected when the judge approved the removal of my prior Reckless driving from my record and was furious when the judge ruled in our favor.

The attorney told me that if he ever sees me again it will cost double. My driving habits have changed.

Good luck buddy, I feel your pain.

 

A scrupulous lawyer with didactic virtues??? Now I've heard it all!

 

Scrupulous? Who do you think got the other five grand?

 

Yeah, that's what I was thinkin' too...

 

Sorry for your speeding troubles. Nothing worse than that one second you look in your rearview and see that cop making a Uturn knowing damn well whos he is coming for. (Thats when you wish for someone to drive by him at 120MPH while hes coming to get you).
Anyways, being a veteran of many tickets and getting ready to attend law school, I can try to help as best I can.
Now every state is different....buy generally, no the cop doesnt need to actually have you clocked, nor does he have to show it to you on the gun. Most times they will if you ask to see it, but they dont have to.
Its pretty stupid you guys have that 3 ticket and you are out rule. Like the poster in Indiana said, he has it there, I know Illinois has it, but here in Wisc. they go on a point system, usually will get you 4 tickets worth before suspension.
You ALWAYS have a right to trial by jury when one is available. Depending on situation, that may or may not be what you want. In terms of what Luthor said, cops are very good at clocking you "by eye." They are also taught how to "pace," basically they sit behind you or in front of you and watch their speedo....and can determine how much time it should take you to get to them......and then if you get there in half the time it should take, its obvious you are speeding.
5 years ago, I would have said take your chances of the cop not showing up. Nowadays yes, cops are paid to go to court. In terms of calibration.....and the papers, dont bother....calibration papers are believe it or not a lot of times kept right in the courtroom for when these questions occur. At the same time, a guy in one of my classes said he went on a ride along a couple weeks ago and he said they are supposed to be calibrated daily with the tuning forks, but it depends on the officer, some dont do it.....They are supposed to be calibrated to 35 and 65 MPH.
In terms of the radar reading.....radars actually if anything....clock you going slower than you are going. This is what a cop told me, and by experience I can agree.
Yeah, you shot yourself in the foot saying how fast you might have been going. You may have cost yourself an appeal win there....on the thought that if you didnt admit how fast you were going, he may have let you go because maybe he in fact didnt know how fast you were going.....but because you admitted it, thats all he needs and you can be sure that will be in his notes. Probably had a quota to fill (yes, police depts. have quotas, and Ive heard stories of people getting tickets for going 3 MPH over just because the cop had to reach his quota). You should have told him you didnt know...but I understand almost no one is thinking in that situation. If he would have followed up with estimate how much you were going, I would have told him you were not watching your speedo so you really cannot estimate. If he copped an attitude, then Id say OK, give me a ticket, and hand me your badge number too *******.
No, I wouldnt have, and that was a good point....cops can think you are getting attitudes very easy with them, especially if you drive a nice car and are young. I was pulled over in my BMW because I didnt have a front license plate on, and it was the second time I was ticketed for it. I was not carrying my drivers license either, which I never do, and have never been ticketed for it, hell only one cop has ever said anything. Anyways, I told him I didnt agree with getting a ticket because I lost my front license plate and didnt have chance to get a new one. He called me out, said I was lying. I then told him "hey, I got out of this the first time and Ill just go to court and get out of it again." Well, basically that wasnt smart. Next thing I knew, he said...."oh I see how it is. Well how do I know you are who you say you are....I mean you have no license or ID on you." This was after he wrote me the ticket, I mean he knew I was who I said I was...car was registered in my name and everything. Anyways, this **** cuffed me, took me down to the station, printed me, photo'ed me just for ID purposes, let me go.
Woo, sorry for long post. Anyways...I would call a lawyer, ask him what he thinks....theyll tell you for free straight out what they can do for you...if they can help you. It will be expensive, and I have no clue how they do it (hey, when I learn, Ill let everyone know so no one has to ever hire a lawyer again). I assume they are all kinda buddy buddy with the DA's and thus the lawyer says "yeah my client is young, could lose his license, cut him some slack just this one time," and its done. If you go yourself and plead with the judge, he may let you take a class or reduce the points to let you keep your license....it may take him raising the fine though...which I would volunteer to do. In terms of what Luthor said though....no DA, or sober DA, is gonna offer you a seat belt-stop ticket in compromise for going 31 over. Never. They might knock it down a category-which usually saves you points in my case.
Hope this helps.

 

Well, you're dealing with an ADA, not a DA, and they are oftentimes totally knuckleheaded, I can scan in and post my speeders that were reduced down a couple categories if ya need proof, along with the 50 or so violations i've skated on. NY is on a points system, 11 points and you're out, i've always had a strong knowledge of the traffic law and the loopholes, i've literally gotten enough tickets to wallpaper a small bathroom, street raced for years and made more than enough doing it to pay for the lawyers when I needed them, but mostly I handled things myself, and i've never even had enough points on my license to even have to take defensive driving, let alone enough to have it suspended/revoked, just had a speeder dismissed last week in Suffolk County, and it was in a school zone (no, I didn't know it was a school zone, I would never ever speed around kids), and Suffolk is notorious for their strictness.

 

I would bet that the judge took some of the dough.

 

CA is on the point system too. 4-points in 12 months, 6-points in 24 months, or 8-points in 36 months, and you're out. I got 4 in 12, only because this ******-*** cop had to write me a double ticket just because he was a powertripper. Actually, most all my tickets can be attributed to power trips. The only one I deserved was doing 135 in a 70 zone.

Anyhoot, I got my license suspended for 7 months, but I appealed to the DMV Driver Safety Division, had a whole formal trial, and won my appeal. I am very fortunate too, took a lot of remorseful BSing and grim sorrowful facial expressions. So if you end up losing your license, you can always appeal that one too. I'm on probation for 12 months, so I can't slip up ONCE or it's back to suspension. My insurance rates are on the pound-me-in-the-*** price bracket since it's the premium package through AAA.

I have a CHP (California Highway Patrol) buddy that assures me that there is NO quota system for cops. Their precinct and county does get bonuses and additional funding from the state if they write in the top percentile of the state. But no, they don't get canned, written up, or shut down if they don't write an average of ten tickets per day per officer, or something like that. The captain and officers do not benefit directly through writing tickets. No commission or annual bonus checks. They tried that crap in Dade County, Florida a while back and it was a huge disaster. Bunch of corruption and manipulation stemming from conflicts of interests.

 

this is the best part ... going 55 in a 35 and its BS lol

sorry you got caught.. hope you learn a lesson.