sc300 with a lexus 5.0l is-f motor
10-03-10, 07:56 PM
#76
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10-03-10, 08:05 PM
#77
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The only advantage of LSx is it's size and cheapness. That's all. It doesn't even have variable timing etc. Old school crap. Just think about it, if LSx had higher compression, better flowing head, DOHC vvti, etc, it would have close to 650hp without supercharger from 7L. The engine efficiency is ~71hp/liter, which makes it as efficient as civic ex engine.
hahaha i can promise you noone on any domestic forum is talking about putting a toyota motor V8 in their hot rods , they do however talk about putting a 2j's in them cuz we all know that the 2jz is the big block of the import world .
and as far as variable valve timing... its sucks IMO
10-03-10, 10:43 PM
#78
The only advantage of LSx is it's size and cheapness. That's all. It doesn't even have variable timing etc. Old school crap. Just think about it, if LSx had higher compression, better flowing head, DOHC vvti, etc, it would have close to 650hp without supercharger from 7L. The engine efficiency is ~71hp/liter, which makes it as efficient as civic ex engine.
The LS2 is extremely efficient for it's power. Find me a 400hp v8 that can get 28MPG on the highway, and 23 combined city/hwy.
Technology wise, it has displacement on demand which I would much rather have than variable valve timing which I feel is an overly complex technology with minimal benefit. So still with all of this "old technology" GM has managed to make an engine that not only overtakes toyota's halo V8 (IS-F engine) in performance, but ALSO significantly wins on efficiency. To beat toyota at their own game of efficiency while making power? Impressive
400hp out of the box, with plenty of room to spare for inexpensive, proven, and readily available horsepower. This not only applies to performance parts, but basic maintenance parts are also super easy to get ahold of and are quite affordable.
Excellent knowledge available- if you have a problem, you WILL find the answer.
Good value- the 1uz is actually a super cheap v8- $400-500 for a 260 hp engine isn't too bad. But $3500 for a reliable and efficient 400hp v8 is a good value, but not something I would consider "cheap".
Easily mate a t56 6 speed manual, a 4l80e 4 speed automatic, or a 6l80e 6 speed automatic- nice transmission options.
At the end of the day if you are planning on building a DRIVER'S car- a car that is daily drivable, make a good amount of horsepower, and is easy/reasonable to maintain, the ls2 is a great choice vs nearly any other v8 available. Again, we can speculate all day about which motor is technically the most advanced, or the most race worthy, etc. but this is about those of us who want to actually enjoy driving the cars we own rather than just building them
Last edited by Klaus; 10-03-10 at 10:49 PM.
10-04-10, 01:57 AM
#79
The only advantage of LSx is it's size and cheapness. That's all. It doesn't even have variable timing etc. Old school crap. Just think about it, if LSx had higher compression, better flowing head, DOHC vvti, etc, it would have close to 650hp without supercharger from 7L. The engine efficiency is ~71hp/liter, which makes it as efficient as civic ex engine.
there you go guys, VVTi or VTEK! is the pinnacle of human engineering and its the benchmark of excellence in engine building and performance
This one takes the cake for pure ignorance and bias all wrapped up in one of the best automotive quotes i've ever read in an automotive forum
"Your car may be faster than mine, but MY engine is more efficient than yours! *shakes fist!*"
Last edited by 2turbo1sup; 10-04-10 at 02:01 AM.
10-04-10, 04:29 AM
#81
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hahaha i can promise you noone on any domestic forum is talking about putting a toyota motor V8 in their hot rods , they do however talk about putting a 2j's in them cuz we all know that the 2jz is the big block of the import world .
and as far as variable valve timing... its sucks IMO
and as far as variable valve timing... its sucks IMO
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IZqtJTlXON8
10-04-10, 07:00 AM
#82
480hp for under $4000. You putting up a build thread? Very interested to see this
10-04-10, 12:17 PM
#83
Lexus Test Driver
Hahahahha!
there you go guys, VVTi or VTEK! is the pinnacle of human engineering and its the benchmark of excellence in engine building and performance
This one takes the cake for pure ignorance and bias all wrapped up in one of the best automotive quotes i've ever read in an automotive forum
"Your car may be faster than mine, but MY engine is more efficient than yours! *shakes fist!*"
there you go guys, VVTi or VTEK! is the pinnacle of human engineering and its the benchmark of excellence in engine building and performance
This one takes the cake for pure ignorance and bias all wrapped up in one of the best automotive quotes i've ever read in an automotive forum
"Your car may be faster than mine, but MY engine is more efficient than yours! *shakes fist!*"
10-04-10, 12:43 PM
#85
Fair enough, however extra technology does not always equal better as well. Alright, you're in the debate I'll listen- what benefits does the IS-F 2UR-GSE engine offer vs the LS2? Furthermore, once you've evaluated it versus the LS2, could you make the same comparison vs the LS3 which is in a similar although still slightly lower price range? I am by no means a GM fan boy- 95% of the reason I bought my MKIV was because of the 2jz-gte and 6 speed which is in my opinion one of the best made factory street car motors of all time. I just can't find logical justification as to why I would select a 2UR over an LS. Seemingly the only justification provided so far is a "cool factor" which at the end of the day... who cares?
10-04-10, 04:48 PM
#88
Lexus Test Driver
Oddly enough it added 40hp and 30tq on 1UZ. And not only peak, it also moved the power band much lower. 80% of tq available at 2k rpm - while non vvti UZ only wakes up up top. Look, I'm not praising VVti or vtec or whatever here, I'm just saying that technologically, most american V8s (except for new mustang 5.0, that is pretty nice) are still in the 80s. And what about transmissions? I'm not even gonna touch that...
10-04-10, 05:01 PM
#89
Lexus Test Driver
Fair enough, however extra technology does not always equal better as well. Alright, you're in the debate I'll listen- what benefits does the IS-F 2UR-GSE engine offer vs the LS2? Furthermore, once you've evaluated it versus the LS2, could you make the same comparison vs the LS3 which is in a similar although still slightly lower price range? I am by no means a GM fan boy- 95% of the reason I bought my MKIV was because of the 2jz-gte and 6 speed which is in my opinion one of the best made factory street car motors of all time. I just can't find logical justification as to why I would select a 2UR over an LS. Seemingly the only justification provided so far is a "cool factor" which at the end of the day... who cares?
10-05-10, 10:12 AM
#90
I agree, for a swap it has no sense at all to take 2UR (well maybe just for the sake of uniqueness). I was mostly arguing about the whole old vs new technology in new cars. Food for thought - if american automakers would be competitive, they would not go bankrupt (just pure logic). And use of LSx series of engines is not because they are so great but because they simply can't afford to developed an engine from scratch... but then again, if the current engine is sufficient enough (and average consumer doesn't care if it's 60s technology), why waste money? Another interesting thing, let me guess why you chose Supra instead of let's say corvette. While corvette has a good engine, and alright handling it lacks the quality of supra, starting from the interior, to the quality of paint and bodywork. So again, having supersize engine doesn't mean that the car is great.
But of course the debate in this thread is purely comparing the apples to apples of two high performance motors. An engine should be evaluated on 4 major points - Efficiency, Reliability, Power, Cost/Ease of maintenance. The technology in the engine is not a result, but rather the technology is there to support those four factors. An efficient, reliable, powerful, and cost effective engine is the desire of all drivers and the LS2 IMO is the best V8 in this category even with older technology, which in reality just makes the feat that much more impressive.