I should of had a V8 ????
03-30-11, 06:04 AM
#47
Really? That is it?
Have you removed the starter on both a 92 SC400 and a 98 GS400? The difference between the two engines is night and day.
Side-facing Throttle Body
Curved Intake Runners
Dual Distributor setup
Two Igniters
Two ignition coils (for 8 cylinders)
10 Spark Plug Wires
Cold Start Injector
Karmen Vortex Mass Air Flow Sensor
Exhaust Gas Recirculation Valve
Idle Air Control Valve
The original 1UZ and even the OBD-II version ARE NOT modern engines or even close to being modern. They are an 80s design and it shows. This is not speculation or conjecture but fact.
The attitude some people in this thread possess show exactly why Lexus never released a lower displacement turbo model in America. The average uneducated person sees 2 more cylinders and more displacement and thinks "IT HAS TO BE BETTER." NEWS FLASH NO. There is more to an engine besides those two factors.
Have you removed the starter on both a 92 SC400 and a 98 GS400? The difference between the two engines is night and day.
Side-facing Throttle Body
Curved Intake Runners
Dual Distributor setup
Two Igniters
Two ignition coils (for 8 cylinders)
10 Spark Plug Wires
Cold Start Injector
Karmen Vortex Mass Air Flow Sensor
Exhaust Gas Recirculation Valve
Idle Air Control Valve
The original 1UZ and even the OBD-II version ARE NOT modern engines or even close to being modern. They are an 80s design and it shows. This is not speculation or conjecture but fact.
The attitude some people in this thread possess show exactly why Lexus never released a lower displacement turbo model in America. The average uneducated person sees 2 more cylinders and more displacement and thinks "IT HAS TO BE BETTER." NEWS FLASH NO. There is more to an engine besides those two factors.
03-30-11, 06:13 AM
#49
Do you not see the picture above? I have the engine and I am speaking from personal experience when I say it isn't solid nor reliable. Besides all the issues I have ran into it that I fixed I also have the power loss with the MAF plugged. I've tried everything including a different ECU and I still have the issue. Are you telling you do not comprehend how a cold start injector or a karmen vortex sensor or a idle air control valve or an EGR or having 10 spark plug wires is going to affect reliability? It is a poor design that inevitably leads to fail.
Now the 1UZ-FE VVT-i is a different tale entirely. That engine gets a thumbs up from me. I bet the intake manifold and runners alone net 10-20hp of it's gain.
In terms of engine design it goes from best to worst
1UZ-FE VVT-i / 2JZ-GTE VVT-i
2JZ-GTE
1JZ-GTE
2JZ-GE
1UZ-FE
It is the poorest design of all the common engines seen in these cars.
Now the 1UZ-FE VVT-i is a different tale entirely. That engine gets a thumbs up from me. I bet the intake manifold and runners alone net 10-20hp of it's gain.
In terms of engine design it goes from best to worst
1UZ-FE VVT-i / 2JZ-GTE VVT-i
2JZ-GTE
1JZ-GTE
2JZ-GE
1UZ-FE
It is the poorest design of all the common engines seen in these cars.
Last edited by account2x; 03-30-11 at 06:21 AM.
03-30-11, 06:29 AM
#50
Mortgage Slave
The 1UZ-FE is around 205hp at the wheels.
The 1UZ-FE VVT-i is around 250hp at the wheels
The 1UZ-FE VVT-i is around 250hp at the wheels
dont quote me on this but some people were saying the 4.0gt soarer was a bit heavier than the sc400 ---something about the suspension I think.
In terms of engine design it goes from best to worst
The the OP, if you're looking for more power I'd say get the 1JZGTE or NA-T 2JZ/2JZGTE. Maybe in stock form their may be not much difference but potential is extensive on the JZ's, whereas the 1UZ's have a limited scope for improvement through aftermarket support. As everyone else is saying as well, if you're keeping it stock either sell off the SC3 or retire it to weekend duties and get an SC4 for a daily.
03-30-11, 06:37 AM
#51
You can't be serious?! Are there any stats to back this up? I'm not saying it in objection but never seeing a 1UZ VVTi there's not much talk about them this side of the world (remember, NO Soarer V8 was available with VVTi, nor did the Aussies ever get the GS400/430 since Lexus Australia are a bunch of tightasses).
https://www.clublexus.com/forums/per...-98-gs400.html
200-210rwhp for the 1UZ-FE and 240-250rwhp for the 1UZ-FE VVT-i is more accurate.
The VVT-i wasn't a "relatively" minor upgrade as it was for the 2JZ-GTE but completely changed the top-end of the engine.
I did not forget it. I just know almost nothing about it so I have no idea how it ranks compared to the other engines. For example I do not know if it is batch fire like the 1JZ-GTE or sequential fire like the 2JZ-GTE and 2JZ-GTE VVT-i.
Last edited by account2x; 03-30-11 at 06:49 AM.
03-30-11, 06:48 AM
#52
Ah now I gotcha 
. You're chasing down an issue on yours so you've categorically decided that it's an unreliable piece of garbage! Trust me I've been there man! But really the issue is not in the motor, but in the diagnostician trying to fix it. Once you track down the issue you're going to smack yourself in the forehead because it's going to make a LOT of sense why it was the issue. Electronic components do not last forever unfortunately on ANY car.
I should say as well that you are correct that most of those motors do have better designs, consider as well that they were probably about 5 years ahead in development. You're putting the 1uz up against a set of VERY impressive motors that still compete with modern engines (put a 2jz-gte up against the BMW x35 motor any day of the week). But the engine itself is reliable due to it's proven longevity.
. You're chasing down an issue on yours so you've categorically decided that it's an unreliable piece of garbage! Trust me I've been there man! But really the issue is not in the motor, but in the diagnostician trying to fix it. Once you track down the issue you're going to smack yourself in the forehead because it's going to make a LOT of sense why it was the issue. Electronic components do not last forever unfortunately on ANY car. I should say as well that you are correct that most of those motors do have better designs, consider as well that they were probably about 5 years ahead in development. You're putting the 1uz up against a set of VERY impressive motors that still compete with modern engines (put a 2jz-gte up against the BMW x35 motor any day of the week). But the engine itself is reliable due to it's proven longevity.
03-30-11, 06:52 AM
#53
There are definitely some electrical shenanigans but I installed a standalone system with the standard ignition system and it works 100% fine. I think most of the old ecu's need refurbishing and maybe that's why replacing an old one with another old one doesn't necessarily fix the problems.
03-30-11, 07:24 AM
#54
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i had pulled 1UZs out of a couple SC400 with 263k miles , i replace the motor with a lower mileage one because the starter was bad and the custumer wanted a lower miles engine and tranny.
I don't like working on them because they have too much going on in the bay, i don't like them too much but don't hate them and wouldn't call them junk and garbage.
Their is another thread where some one on here was calling the 1UZ junk and whatever...
Yes the 1UZfe is as realiable as the "1UZfe VVti", they are reliable if you take care of them, just like "1UZ fe VVTi" .
And i don't know why all these guys just stuck on the vVTi crap, and majority of them don't even know how it works....
My car the VVTi
Account2X are you Ryeno on Supraforums? if you don't mind me asking. And what kind of car do you drive? and what engine is in it? can u please post some pics?
and please don't take offense...
I don't like working on them because they have too much going on in the bay, i don't like them too much but don't hate them and wouldn't call them junk and garbage.
Their is another thread where some one on here was calling the 1UZ junk and whatever...
Yes the 1UZfe is as realiable as the "1UZfe VVti", they are reliable if you take care of them, just like "1UZ fe VVTi" .
And i don't know why all these guys just stuck on the vVTi crap, and majority of them don't even know how it works....
My car the VVTi
Account2X are you Ryeno on Supraforums? if you don't mind me asking. And what kind of car do you drive? and what engine is in it? can u please post some pics?
and please don't take offense...
03-30-11, 07:39 AM
#55
I have a 1992 SC400 and a 2003 GX470.
I work as a mechanic so I say from personal experience what I have seen. They are not as reliable as the VVTi spec models. Idle Air Control Valves go bad, the Distributors wear, the EGR gets clogged. I have seen a lot that are still working with high mileage so rings hold with age but almost none "feel" like new engines. If you have driven low mileage cars and high mileage ones. You can 'feel" the difference. I have to agree with what BartleDoo said about the electronic shenanigans.
In contrast I have driven GS400s with 150,000 miles and they "feel" no different from 50,000 engines.
It is very hard to describe a feeling in text and so requires driving many different vehicles. The aged engines feel slower, more sluggish almost a stutter and don't preform well off the line. This is not in the sense of the engine being totally destroyed or blown but merely "worse" Therefore it is very difficult for someone who has not driven a lot quantity of vehicles to "feel" the difference. Most people could not even recognize the engine isn't performing as it should. Especially with owners who purchased the vehicle with high mileage.
I work as a mechanic so I say from personal experience what I have seen. They are not as reliable as the VVTi spec models. Idle Air Control Valves go bad, the Distributors wear, the EGR gets clogged. I have seen a lot that are still working with high mileage so rings hold with age but almost none "feel" like new engines. If you have driven low mileage cars and high mileage ones. You can 'feel" the difference. I have to agree with what BartleDoo said about the electronic shenanigans.
In contrast I have driven GS400s with 150,000 miles and they "feel" no different from 50,000 engines.
It is very hard to describe a feeling in text and so requires driving many different vehicles. The aged engines feel slower, more sluggish almost a stutter and don't preform well off the line. This is not in the sense of the engine being totally destroyed or blown but merely "worse" Therefore it is very difficult for someone who has not driven a lot quantity of vehicles to "feel" the difference. Most people could not even recognize the engine isn't performing as it should. Especially with owners who purchased the vehicle with high mileage.
Last edited by account2x; 03-30-11 at 07:54 AM. Reason: Detail & Clarity
03-30-11, 08:34 AM
#56
I have a 1992 SC400 and a 2003 GX470.
I work as a mechanic so I say from personal experience what I have seen. They are not as reliable as the VVTi spec models. Idle Air Control Valves go bad, the Distributors wear, the EGR gets clogged. I have seen a lot that are still working with high mileage so rings hold with age but almost none "feel" like new engines. If you have driven low mileage cars and high mileage ones. You can 'feel" the difference. I have to agree with what BartleDoo said about the electronic shenanigans.
In contrast I have driven GS400s with 150,000 miles and they "feel" no different from 50,000 engines.
It is very hard to describe a feeling in text and so requires driving many different vehicles. The aged engines feel slower, more sluggish almost a stutter and don't preform well off the line. This is not in the sense of the engine being totally destroyed or blown but merely "worse" Therefore it is very difficult for someone who has not driven a lot quantity of vehicles to "feel" the difference. Most people could not even recognize the engine isn't performing as it should. Especially with owners who purchased the vehicle with high mileage.
I work as a mechanic so I say from personal experience what I have seen. They are not as reliable as the VVTi spec models. Idle Air Control Valves go bad, the Distributors wear, the EGR gets clogged. I have seen a lot that are still working with high mileage so rings hold with age but almost none "feel" like new engines. If you have driven low mileage cars and high mileage ones. You can 'feel" the difference. I have to agree with what BartleDoo said about the electronic shenanigans.
In contrast I have driven GS400s with 150,000 miles and they "feel" no different from 50,000 engines.
It is very hard to describe a feeling in text and so requires driving many different vehicles. The aged engines feel slower, more sluggish almost a stutter and don't preform well off the line. This is not in the sense of the engine being totally destroyed or blown but merely "worse" Therefore it is very difficult for someone who has not driven a lot quantity of vehicles to "feel" the difference. Most people could not even recognize the engine isn't performing as it should. Especially with owners who purchased the vehicle with high mileage.
but the motor is old and sluggish sometimes, i take care of the car maintenance wise. I agree on the electrical shenanigans there is way to too much going on in the engine bay.
Looking into doing a 2uz 1uz vvti head swap soon as my probation is over lol
03-30-11, 04:00 PM
#59
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I'll try to address all of these the best I can.
I want to be absolutly clear that I'm NOT a 1UZ lover by any means. NOR did I propose this was a modern engine. I merely said that vs. its competition in the mid/late 80's (when it was designed) its a solid motor, especially given its disadvance in displacment.
Its a much more popular motor to modify in other parts of the world, thats for sure.
Gotta tell you, if I was looking for a lot of performance ... and it had to be a V8.. I would not dink around with this motor as my first choice.
Starter - There are a few designs that put the starter under the intake manifold. I've had to change the starter a couple times on the 4.0L Aurora V8, and yah.. it sucks. So we'll both agree its a **** place to put a starter.
Throttle body placment - I'd like to to elaborate a little more on your concern with this? I'm not going to name them all, but there are a large number of vehicles that do/did this. Some quite performance oriented. With the runners so long on this manifold I don't see how any "tunnel ram" ish design would do much more. So lets agree that the intake manifold in general likely doesnt fit most performance enthusiast goals on a few levels.
Cold start injector -This is something you often see on earlier EFI designs, reguardless of manf. There was one on my first '91 MR2 Turbo too. I have no idea why Toyota/Denso didn't grasp the concept of cold start enrichment w/o the use of a CSI. In my case I own a 1995, which doesnt have a CSI.
Ignition and engine managment in general - I don't really get the dual distributor setup either, but its not a totally uncommon thing to see out there. I mean really its basically two standard Toyota 4cyl ignition systems on each bank. When the motor was first designed hey... COP was rare en masse. As the 90's progressed Toyota "fixed" this on most engines.
OH NOES it has 10 ignition leads as opposed to the 9 most other V8's in this era had.
I will say that Toyota in general in this era did some goofy stuff in reguards to engine managment.
On the other hand, Toyota did you a big favor and put a 12 tooth trigger wheel on the crank. Between that the the dizzy's you can put a standalone on this thing like nothing (as Bartledoo said).
I'd like to know more on your issues with the KV style MAF/AFM? I mean at least you didn't get a "doggie door" style like MR2's and earlier Supra's etc did. Nothing says prehistoric like an actual door opening/closing as more/less air enters the engine. There are quite a few KV equiped vehicles, including some pretty high performance Japanese cars.
EGR and IACV seem like pretty standard fare for the era too.
I want to be absolutly clear that I'm NOT a 1UZ lover by any means. NOR did I propose this was a modern engine. I merely said that vs. its competition in the mid/late 80's (when it was designed) its a solid motor, especially given its disadvance in displacment.
Its a much more popular motor to modify in other parts of the world, thats for sure.
Gotta tell you, if I was looking for a lot of performance ... and it had to be a V8.. I would not dink around with this motor as my first choice.
Starter - There are a few designs that put the starter under the intake manifold. I've had to change the starter a couple times on the 4.0L Aurora V8, and yah.. it sucks. So we'll both agree its a **** place to put a starter.
Throttle body placment - I'd like to to elaborate a little more on your concern with this? I'm not going to name them all, but there are a large number of vehicles that do/did this. Some quite performance oriented. With the runners so long on this manifold I don't see how any "tunnel ram" ish design would do much more. So lets agree that the intake manifold in general likely doesnt fit most performance enthusiast goals on a few levels.
Cold start injector -This is something you often see on earlier EFI designs, reguardless of manf. There was one on my first '91 MR2 Turbo too. I have no idea why Toyota/Denso didn't grasp the concept of cold start enrichment w/o the use of a CSI. In my case I own a 1995, which doesnt have a CSI.
Ignition and engine managment in general - I don't really get the dual distributor setup either, but its not a totally uncommon thing to see out there. I mean really its basically two standard Toyota 4cyl ignition systems on each bank. When the motor was first designed hey... COP was rare en masse. As the 90's progressed Toyota "fixed" this on most engines.
OH NOES it has 10 ignition leads as opposed to the 9 most other V8's in this era had.
I will say that Toyota in general in this era did some goofy stuff in reguards to engine managment.
On the other hand, Toyota did you a big favor and put a 12 tooth trigger wheel on the crank. Between that the the dizzy's you can put a standalone on this thing like nothing (as Bartledoo said).
I'd like to know more on your issues with the KV style MAF/AFM? I mean at least you didn't get a "doggie door" style like MR2's and earlier Supra's etc did. Nothing says prehistoric like an actual door opening/closing as more/less air enters the engine. There are quite a few KV equiped vehicles, including some pretty high performance Japanese cars.
EGR and IACV seem like pretty standard fare for the era too.
Really? That is it?
Have you removed the starter on both a 92 SC400 and a 98 GS400? The difference between the two engines is night and day.
Side-facing Throttle Body
Curved Intake Runners
Dual Distributor setup
Two Igniters
Two ignition coils (for 8 cylinders)
10 Spark Plug Wires
Cold Start Injector
Karmen Vortex Mass Air Flow Sensor
Exhaust Gas Recirculation Valve
Idle Air Control Valve
The original 1UZ and even the OBD-II version ARE NOT modern engines or even close to being modern. They are an 80s design and it shows. This is not speculation or conjecture but fact.
The attitude some people in this thread possess show exactly why Lexus never released a lower displacement turbo model in America. The average uneducated person sees 2 more cylinders and more displacement and thinks "IT HAS TO BE BETTER." NEWS FLASH NO. There is more to an engine besides those two factors.
Have you removed the starter on both a 92 SC400 and a 98 GS400? The difference between the two engines is night and day.
Side-facing Throttle Body
Curved Intake Runners
Dual Distributor setup
Two Igniters
Two ignition coils (for 8 cylinders)
10 Spark Plug Wires
Cold Start Injector
Karmen Vortex Mass Air Flow Sensor
Exhaust Gas Recirculation Valve
Idle Air Control Valve
The original 1UZ and even the OBD-II version ARE NOT modern engines or even close to being modern. They are an 80s design and it shows. This is not speculation or conjecture but fact.
The attitude some people in this thread possess show exactly why Lexus never released a lower displacement turbo model in America. The average uneducated person sees 2 more cylinders and more displacement and thinks "IT HAS TO BE BETTER." NEWS FLASH NO. There is more to an engine besides those two factors.