turbo finally on
09-26-02, 03:42 AM
#61
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Hey Henry,
Sup I justed wanted to let you know i agreed with you on the 8psi and 427 rwhp and i knew either he was making something up OR something was up with a boost controller/gauge. I posted this formula in Supraforums but it can apply to many things. Its actually out of a Turbo book called "Maximum Boost". It can be "generally" acurrate for alot of situations like this meaning if the numbers are WAY off the formula then you know something is wrong. Here is is First you start out measuring the Cubic Inches of the motor in our case i now think its 183 *could be 189 i cant remember* then you find amount of boost the person is running *say 8psi* and ADD that to 1 bar of pressure aka 14.7 this is 22.7. Now you need to find the efficentcy of the engine WHICH when the book was published was .077 as the MOST efficent piston engine ever tested however i think the 2JZ-GE/GTE is in that area maybe even higher with a bit of tuning *It wasnt tested when the book was published* Multiply these numbes together to get the horsepower:
183*22.7*.077= 319.8657 not quite 427 so something seemed to be up BUT at 15 psi
183*29.7*.077= 418.5027 Quite closer AND believable to our claimed number.
Other factors such as Turbo Size and Engine Efficentcy come into play for different reasons. (i actually think well enough tuned the 2jz in this case is more efficent then the .077)
Hope someone learned something from all this :-p
*edit* forgot to add that compression makes a difference on the numbers as well on this particular SC300 with a single TT gasket he is probably closer to the 9.5 or 10:1 compression ratio im not sure because i dunno the size of the stock 2JZ-GE headgasket. Also the Rotaries use bigger turbos because they have alot more exhaust velocity then our engines so they can spool the bigger turbos quicker.
Later,
Sup I justed wanted to let you know i agreed with you on the 8psi and 427 rwhp and i knew either he was making something up OR something was up with a boost controller/gauge. I posted this formula in Supraforums but it can apply to many things. Its actually out of a Turbo book called "Maximum Boost". It can be "generally" acurrate for alot of situations like this meaning if the numbers are WAY off the formula then you know something is wrong. Here is is First you start out measuring the Cubic Inches of the motor in our case i now think its 183 *could be 189 i cant remember* then you find amount of boost the person is running *say 8psi* and ADD that to 1 bar of pressure aka 14.7 this is 22.7. Now you need to find the efficentcy of the engine WHICH when the book was published was .077 as the MOST efficent piston engine ever tested however i think the 2JZ-GE/GTE is in that area maybe even higher with a bit of tuning *It wasnt tested when the book was published* Multiply these numbes together to get the horsepower:
183*22.7*.077= 319.8657 not quite 427 so something seemed to be up BUT at 15 psi
183*29.7*.077= 418.5027 Quite closer AND believable to our claimed number.
Other factors such as Turbo Size and Engine Efficentcy come into play for different reasons. (i actually think well enough tuned the 2jz in this case is more efficent then the .077)
Hope someone learned something from all this :-p
*edit* forgot to add that compression makes a difference on the numbers as well on this particular SC300 with a single TT gasket he is probably closer to the 9.5 or 10:1 compression ratio im not sure because i dunno the size of the stock 2JZ-GE headgasket. Also the Rotaries use bigger turbos because they have alot more exhaust velocity then our engines so they can spool the bigger turbos quicker.
Later,
Last edited by ThomsonCharm; 09-26-02 at 03:52 AM.
09-26-02, 04:31 AM
#62
Re: It is fun here
Originally posted by henrynguyen
Anyway guys, a car cannot produce a lot of horsepower at low boost level. Example of 2JZ-GTE produces 320 hp at the crank on stock boost level (around 11psi-13psi). Additional mod such as down pipe, computer upgrade, EVC (electronic valve control) and intake system for a price of $2,000 or less can bring the car up to 400hp + but not a lot of torque gain. I never hear 8psi of boost can produce 427rwhp and most people from Lexus forum believed it accept me. I owned my Supra since I was in high school. I know a lot about turbo than most people here in Lexus Forum. I still cannot believe that 15psi can produce 427rwhp but maybe at the crank. It required about 22psi or more to produce 427rwhp dude. Anyway correctly me if I’m wrong.
Anyway guys, a car cannot produce a lot of horsepower at low boost level. Example of 2JZ-GTE produces 320 hp at the crank on stock boost level (around 11psi-13psi). Additional mod such as down pipe, computer upgrade, EVC (electronic valve control) and intake system for a price of $2,000 or less can bring the car up to 400hp + but not a lot of torque gain. I never hear 8psi of boost can produce 427rwhp and most people from Lexus forum believed it accept me. I owned my Supra since I was in high school. I know a lot about turbo than most people here in Lexus Forum. I still cannot believe that 15psi can produce 427rwhp but maybe at the crank. It required about 22psi or more to produce 427rwhp dude. Anyway correctly me if I’m wrong.
09-26-02, 04:49 AM
#63
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Re: Re: It is fun here
Originally posted by LexusBoi
ok, your wrong........there are several examples of people around the forums (supraforums too) that have this much, and more horsepower on 15psi.....do your homework, that kinda horsepower can be done at 15psi
ok, your wrong........there are several examples of people around the forums (supraforums too) that have this much, and more horsepower on 15psi.....do your homework, that kinda horsepower can be done at 15psi
09-26-02, 10:08 AM
#64
Re: Re: turbo finally on
Originally posted by wayne
OK. I listened to what everyone was saying about the boost level and I took the advise and checked the boost gauge. I replaced it and got a reading of 15 psi. Turns out the brand new boost gauge was defective. I can admit when i'm wrong. But still 427rwhp on just basic tuning is not bad. after the tranny i hope to do a full tuning using the afc.
OK. I listened to what everyone was saying about the boost level and I took the advise and checked the boost gauge. I replaced it and got a reading of 15 psi. Turns out the brand new boost gauge was defective. I can admit when i'm wrong. But still 427rwhp on just basic tuning is not bad. after the tranny i hope to do a full tuning using the afc.
09-26-02, 10:22 AM
#65
Re: It is fun here
Originally posted by henrynguyen
Anyway guys, a car cannot produce a lot of horsepower at low boost level. Example of 2JZ-GTE produces 320 hp at the crank on stock boost level (around 11psi-13psi). Additional mod such as down pipe, computer upgrade, EVC (electronic valve control) and intake system for a price of $2,000 or less can bring the car up to 400hp + but not a lot of torque gain.
Anyway guys, a car cannot produce a lot of horsepower at low boost level. Example of 2JZ-GTE produces 320 hp at the crank on stock boost level (around 11psi-13psi). Additional mod such as down pipe, computer upgrade, EVC (electronic valve control) and intake system for a price of $2,000 or less can bring the car up to 400hp + but not a lot of torque gain.
Torque always rises hand-in-hand with boost level, in this case up to around 18-21psi, but then again, torque means nothing in a race.
I never hear 8psi of boost can produce 427rwhp and most people from Lexus forum believed it accept me. I owned my Supra since I was in high school. I know a lot about turbo than most people here in Lexus Forum. I still cannot believe that 15psi can produce 427rwhp but maybe at the crank. It required about 22psi or more to produce 427rwhp dude. Anyway correctly me if I’m wrong.
Hey where you get the $5,00.00 car? It looks nice, I'm sure it can smoke a 78 Honda civic CVC.
09-26-02, 11:50 AM
#66
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Originally posted by SC300T
Ummm. So you have a spring in the waste gate with the boost controller off, the boost gauge was bad, but you boosted to 15psi? I'm a little confused.
If the boost controller is off, the spring should pretty closely dictate boost level. Surely you know what spring was installed...
Ummm. So you have a spring in the waste gate with the boost controller off, the boost gauge was bad, but you boosted to 15psi? I'm a little confused.
If the boost controller is off, the spring should pretty closely dictate boost level. Surely you know what spring was installed...
I thought that we had backed the spring out all the way so that the max boost would have been 9psi. I guess we forgot to do that. oh well, nobody is perfect.
09-26-02, 01:09 PM
#67
Lexus Champion
Re: wow
Originally posted by henrynguyen
Hey where you get the $5,00.00 car? It looks nice, I'm sure it can smoke a 78 Honda civic CVC.
Hey where you get the $5,00.00 car? It looks nice, I'm sure it can smoke a 78 Honda civic CVC.
Can I get some fries with that shake?..................
09-26-02, 01:59 PM
#68
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Re: Re: wow
Originally posted by Lex Luthor
Clint, thx. Henry, your ignorance is amazing, you've never heard of a Grand National? Before you claim to know ***** from shinola you should know that a few of us have built whips that would be seven carlenghts out on your Supra before the frt tires touched the ground, you cannot compare a 7M series to a 2JZ series engine, and some of us can make more pwr @ 8 pounds than your MA70 on Purple airplane fuel with the wastegate jammed shut. I was trying to be a gentleman with you, but you've tossed out that possibility, so go back to your Burger King car and strap on some more Dayglow Yellow wire loom.
Can I get some fries with that shake?..................
Clint, thx. Henry, your ignorance is amazing, you've never heard of a Grand National? Before you claim to know ***** from shinola you should know that a few of us have built whips that would be seven carlenghts out on your Supra before the frt tires touched the ground, you cannot compare a 7M series to a 2JZ series engine, and some of us can make more pwr @ 8 pounds than your MA70 on Purple airplane fuel with the wastegate jammed shut. I was trying to be a gentleman with you, but you've tossed out that possibility, so go back to your Burger King car and strap on some more Dayglow Yellow wire loom.
Can I get some fries with that shake?..................
I'm having fun here. It doesn't matter what kind of car you have, as long as you having fun.
09-26-02, 02:16 PM
#69
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Re: Re: wow
Luthor does your GN have license plates that say 1 Fast V6 or something on the lines of that? Since one of the days I was in my car and a black GN with that plate or something like it was with his gf/wife and started reving a little bit and his gf/wife looked over a few times while I just looked straight ahead I rarely "stop light race" and I definetly wasnt in the mood. But I didnt' see his plate till after the light turned green and he slowly got infront of me.(neither of us were racing though).
Originally posted by Lex Luthor
Clint, thx. Henry, your ignorance is amazing, you've never heard of a Grand National? Before you claim to know ***** from shinola you should know that a few of us have built whips that would be seven carlenghts out on your Supra before the frt tires touched the ground, you cannot compare a 7M series to a 2JZ series engine, and some of us can make more pwr @ 8 pounds than your MA70 on Purple airplane fuel with the wastegate jammed shut. I was trying to be a gentleman with you, but you've tossed out that possibility, so go back to your Burger King car and strap on some more Dayglow Yellow wire loom.
Can I get some fries with that shake?..................
Clint, thx. Henry, your ignorance is amazing, you've never heard of a Grand National? Before you claim to know ***** from shinola you should know that a few of us have built whips that would be seven carlenghts out on your Supra before the frt tires touched the ground, you cannot compare a 7M series to a 2JZ series engine, and some of us can make more pwr @ 8 pounds than your MA70 on Purple airplane fuel with the wastegate jammed shut. I was trying to be a gentleman with you, but you've tossed out that possibility, so go back to your Burger King car and strap on some more Dayglow Yellow wire loom.
Can I get some fries with that shake?..................
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