Built Motor vs 1JZ-GTE swap
12-27-13, 09:33 PM
#1
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Built Motor vs 1JZ-GTE swap
I have a couple questions concerning the build for my '95 Lexus Sc300
I have the option of :
Buying a non-turbo engine w/ manual tranny for about 1800
or
Buy a 1JZ-GTE egnine w/ auto tranny for about 1700
My goal is to have a daily driver than can also drift.
They're both around my budget, but the question is which one?
I would love to learn how to drive stick in the near future.
Throw me any type of advice about which path I should go..
Thank you
I have the option of :
Buying a non-turbo engine w/ manual tranny for about 1800
or
Buy a 1JZ-GTE egnine w/ auto tranny for about 1700
My goal is to have a daily driver than can also drift.
They're both around my budget, but the question is which one?
I would love to learn how to drive stick in the near future.
Throw me any type of advice about which path I should go..
Thank you
12-28-13, 04:39 AM
#3
If you are still learning how to drive a manual, you must be new to the car modding world. I'd suggest you start with a car already equipped with such transmission and not with a car with swapped drivetrain components to avoid headaches.
Besides more torque which can be attained through said 1JZ GTE swap, our SC needs at least an LSD, coilovers, a few other things you may not have imagined to properly drift. Now, I'm not trying to deter you away from the route you are choosing with your SC, but I think 98+ SC400 sounds like a better fitting vehicle for your desired application considering the nature of your planned vehicle usage. The 98+ SC400 has the power output and auto transmission which is excellent for daily use and a little slides around empty parking lot (besides the open differential.)
And if you still want to modify your 95 SC300 auto, here are things to consider:
-Cost of swap vs. cost of suspension components that can be installed instead
-Reliability of swapped vehicle vs. OEM (reliable swap is far from cheap, btw)
-Resale value of swapped vehicle vs. OEM (not many, if at all, likes buying a swapped car)
-Frequency of said drifting vs. not drifting (can you justify the cost of swap for amount of time spent drifting?)
-Repair cost of said drifting vs. not drifting (everyone crashes during learning stage and SC is not cheap to repair. It is a Lexus after all.)
Besides, if you really want to learn to drift, you should modify the car progressively as you get better and upgrade things as you see fit. Immediate power increase is not nearly important as properly set up suspension as well as improving your driving skill level. I would hold off on the swap for now until you get familiar with your SC to the point of being able to recognize components that needs to be upgraded.
Cliff note:
I'd recommend suspension mod first, then engine swap down the line.
Besides more torque which can be attained through said 1JZ GTE swap, our SC needs at least an LSD, coilovers, a few other things you may not have imagined to properly drift. Now, I'm not trying to deter you away from the route you are choosing with your SC, but I think 98+ SC400 sounds like a better fitting vehicle for your desired application considering the nature of your planned vehicle usage. The 98+ SC400 has the power output and auto transmission which is excellent for daily use and a little slides around empty parking lot (besides the open differential.)
And if you still want to modify your 95 SC300 auto, here are things to consider:
-Cost of swap vs. cost of suspension components that can be installed instead
-Reliability of swapped vehicle vs. OEM (reliable swap is far from cheap, btw)
-Resale value of swapped vehicle vs. OEM (not many, if at all, likes buying a swapped car)
-Frequency of said drifting vs. not drifting (can you justify the cost of swap for amount of time spent drifting?)
-Repair cost of said drifting vs. not drifting (everyone crashes during learning stage and SC is not cheap to repair. It is a Lexus after all.)
Besides, if you really want to learn to drift, you should modify the car progressively as you get better and upgrade things as you see fit. Immediate power increase is not nearly important as properly set up suspension as well as improving your driving skill level. I would hold off on the swap for now until you get familiar with your SC to the point of being able to recognize components that needs to be upgraded.
Cliff note:
I'd recommend suspension mod first, then engine swap down the line.
12-28-13, 06:25 AM
#4
Like others have said the SC is an expensive car to learn on/drift if that's your goal, and now a days parts are becoming rare.
My 0.02 keep the SC as a DD with some benefits i.e. wheels, nice drop, and exhaust. Keeps her clean
Buy yourself a cheap (so to say) car like maybe a (Nissan 240, Z, or some other RWD platform) and set that up for drifting
Good luck with your decision
My 0.02 keep the SC as a DD with some benefits i.e. wheels, nice drop, and exhaust. Keeps her clean
Buy yourself a cheap (so to say) car like maybe a (Nissan 240, Z, or some other RWD platform) and set that up for drifting
Good luck with your decision
12-28-13, 10:06 AM
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There is an old internet saying "if you have to ask, the answer is no." With that said, with every modification comes challenges, the greater the mod the more problems can arise. When you swap motors, you must consider, fuel, spark, air, exhaust, ECU, transmission, etc. that's a bunch of $$$ bein spent (trust me I know first hand), and it won't account for the needed parts, suspension, drivetrain upgrades.
If you want quick power and fun, do a manual swap, it will get you started in the right direction and you will learn a few things along the way. I'd stay away from the 1j and think of how to make the 2j better afterwards.
Currently in saving up for a 5speed swap for my 1uz
should have the $$ and parts needed come June.
If you want quick power and fun, do a manual swap, it will get you started in the right direction and you will learn a few things along the way. I'd stay away from the 1j and think of how to make the 2j better afterwards.
Currently in saving up for a 5speed swap for my 1uz
should have the $$ and parts needed come June.
12-28-13, 03:07 PM
#7
My advice will slightly differ from these guys, only 'cus Im "that guy" who just does things differently in the world; however I think it falls in line with their advice overall …
Learn to be a good driver first.
It's not about how Fast you can drive, but how Well you can drive.
It just so happens that when you're driving your best; it's reached the point of being "Fast".
However …
A good driver, isn't good because he drives the most capable car.
A good driver is good, because he can be in the worst car, yet out-class those in capable cars.
To put it simply; I bet if you were in a '12 Porsche 911, and Michael Shumacher, was in a Subaru 22B; he could still beat your lap-time around the track - or if it were a race, at least be on your tail the entire time …
So my advice is, Know your car; understand it's strengths, and capabilities, as well as it's weaknesses and limitations. Then, you will be the only one who can truly take it to it's limits; because you're who knows it best. At this point, you are becoming a part of your car; you are the brain, and it is the body - You become a Mechanism, a Unit. The car is already great; the mods you'll be making will be merely to facilitate improvement during the next run, thereby furthering your capability as a driver. That current/prior knowledge is important; crucial-even for professionals.
E.g.
Handling - The sort of turns it couldn't take on OEM Shocks, v.s. the sort of turns you can now take on Coilovers.
Power - What 250Hp feels like in acceleration, v.s. the pull of 500Hp …
So I'd say trust the OEM SC300; "learn" it.
Later, if you want to do your own 1JZ swap, g'head; you'll know who built it, you'll know the issues (if any), and you'll actually have that contrast in your mind, which overall makes you a better driver.
You'll discover what items are best to upgrade once you've realized the cars limitations - out and about, on your adventures; it's gonna take time. The parts will be costly however, simply 'cus of the brand, so try not to catch any guard-rails, or walls, while you're sideways. Though it may happen. Just stay passionate. We have an outstanding car, and platform to build with - Beauty AND Brawn.
Just don't die.
Don't think that 'cus this car's not really a monster, but can do 147mph, bone-stock (which it can; I've done it) that, that means YOU can do 147mph and remain in control. It doesn't work that way. These are old used-cars, and that speed is still 147 regardless of what you're driving, and it's dangerous. I wouldn't even think about pushing the engine to it's limit, unless I was certain things were in good shape, and had solved any other gremlins prior. So before you do any serious track stuff, or racing, put your car on a lift; do a walk-around, inspect it, look for leaks, cracks, old rubber - rotted bushings, rust in certain areas; what needs lubrication? Check your tire pressure …
The last thing you want, is to put money into a car, and have it be a waste because some other slight, or obscure mechanical failure occurred; and now you're stuck with awesome new parts on a car that doesn't run.
I would give a new SC (this is my second one) about 2 Years to get all the kinks out, before I did a swap, or big turbo, etc. but that's just me. I like to have situational awareness, and know things inside & out. That's 'cus I also fly planes though; pilots like to be in control all the time.
Good Luck!
Learn to be a good driver first.
It's not about how Fast you can drive, but how Well you can drive.
It just so happens that when you're driving your best; it's reached the point of being "Fast".
However …
A good driver, isn't good because he drives the most capable car.
A good driver is good, because he can be in the worst car, yet out-class those in capable cars.
To put it simply; I bet if you were in a '12 Porsche 911, and Michael Shumacher, was in a Subaru 22B; he could still beat your lap-time around the track - or if it were a race, at least be on your tail the entire time …
So my advice is, Know your car; understand it's strengths, and capabilities, as well as it's weaknesses and limitations. Then, you will be the only one who can truly take it to it's limits; because you're who knows it best. At this point, you are becoming a part of your car; you are the brain, and it is the body - You become a Mechanism, a Unit. The car is already great; the mods you'll be making will be merely to facilitate improvement during the next run, thereby furthering your capability as a driver. That current/prior knowledge is important; crucial-even for professionals.
E.g.
Handling - The sort of turns it couldn't take on OEM Shocks, v.s. the sort of turns you can now take on Coilovers.
Power - What 250Hp feels like in acceleration, v.s. the pull of 500Hp …
So I'd say trust the OEM SC300; "learn" it.
Later, if you want to do your own 1JZ swap, g'head; you'll know who built it, you'll know the issues (if any), and you'll actually have that contrast in your mind, which overall makes you a better driver.
You'll discover what items are best to upgrade once you've realized the cars limitations - out and about, on your adventures; it's gonna take time. The parts will be costly however, simply 'cus of the brand, so try not to catch any guard-rails, or walls, while you're sideways. Though it may happen. Just stay passionate. We have an outstanding car, and platform to build with - Beauty AND Brawn.
Just don't die.
Don't think that 'cus this car's not really a monster, but can do 147mph, bone-stock (which it can; I've done it) that, that means YOU can do 147mph and remain in control. It doesn't work that way. These are old used-cars, and that speed is still 147 regardless of what you're driving, and it's dangerous. I wouldn't even think about pushing the engine to it's limit, unless I was certain things were in good shape, and had solved any other gremlins prior. So before you do any serious track stuff, or racing, put your car on a lift; do a walk-around, inspect it, look for leaks, cracks, old rubber - rotted bushings, rust in certain areas; what needs lubrication? Check your tire pressure …
The last thing you want, is to put money into a car, and have it be a waste because some other slight, or obscure mechanical failure occurred; and now you're stuck with awesome new parts on a car that doesn't run.
I would give a new SC (this is my second one) about 2 Years to get all the kinks out, before I did a swap, or big turbo, etc. but that's just me. I like to have situational awareness, and know things inside & out. That's 'cus I also fly planes though; pilots like to be in control all the time.
Good Luck!
Last edited by SEIDO; 12-28-13 at 03:32 PM.
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12-28-13, 04:18 PM
#8
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Wow, this is more advice than I expected. I understand where most of you are coming from w/ the "getting the feel" of the stock engine 1st w/ upgraded suspension. I'm most likely gonna consider the manual tranny with upgraded suspension then eventually upgrade to a turbo engine. I have some experience in drifting but I would still consider myself a rookie because I've only drifted without the e-brake.
One thing I forgot to throw in the post is that I blew my stock motor and this is the reason I need a motor.
If I were to purchase another stock 2jz-ge motor, how much would it be to build it to hit about 300 hp?
e.g cams, headers, exhaust, etc.
N/A or N/A-T or 1jz-gte/2jz-gte in the future for drifting?
One thing I forgot to throw in the post is that I blew my stock motor and this is the reason I need a motor.
If I were to purchase another stock 2jz-ge motor, how much would it be to build it to hit about 300 hp?
e.g cams, headers, exhaust, etc.
N/A or N/A-T or 1jz-gte/2jz-gte in the future for drifting?
12-29-13, 06:11 AM
#9
Super haha at whoever said the 2jzge has more torque than a 1jzgte. That's the biggest crock ever. Maybe 170wtq vs a guaranteed 250wtq stock for stock is way off. Those little ct12s weren't put there as novelties.
OP: buy a 240sx if you wanna learn to drive. The sc is a ****ty chassis for drifting. Its not for the feint of heart due to wheelbase/overall size/weight/lack of readily available necessary upgrade parts.
240 is cheap and easy to find/repair. Paint it some stupid color, buy a bunch of **** off Craigslist, and have fun for less than you'd have into a 300whp sc that would still need suspension. Then you can have a super cool drift car, turn your sc daily into a stance queen, acquire a flat billed cap and receive the admiration of all the local high schoolers and bar ****s
OP: buy a 240sx if you wanna learn to drive. The sc is a ****ty chassis for drifting. Its not for the feint of heart due to wheelbase/overall size/weight/lack of readily available necessary upgrade parts.
240 is cheap and easy to find/repair. Paint it some stupid color, buy a bunch of **** off Craigslist, and have fun for less than you'd have into a 300whp sc that would still need suspension. Then you can have a super cool drift car, turn your sc daily into a stance queen, acquire a flat billed cap and receive the admiration of all the local high schoolers and bar ****s
12-29-13, 08:14 AM
#10
+1 It's funny if you put a stock LS1 dyno plot next to a stock 1JZ curve you usually can't tell which is which. Because most 1JZ swaps already have a bigger exhaust, they push 275 to 300rwtq right around the 3000RPM mark. 5.7 liter low end from a 2.5? Not too shabby!
12-31-13, 07:30 AM
#12
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I say get the 1j and start from there. makes no sense to get a 2j-ge just to learn and then switch to a 1j later on down the road. u spend $1800+ for an engine, then swap a 1j for another $2k+ then your $3800 just for engines when you could've just went 1j from the beginning and only spent 2k+ instead of 3k+. u will need a diff and coilovers for drifting too. no if ands or buts
01-01-14, 08:17 AM
#15
Pole Position
Here are my thoguhts:
a) auto soarer > 5spd soarer and auto supra tt > 5 & 6 spd Supra tt.
why? they are faster, easier to drive around on a daily basis, built automatic transmisisons are AWESOME, not to mention you never tire from the downshifting from 3rd or 4th into 1st or second as the torque converter locks up and you can send your car sideways ... which brings up b..
b) drifting... really? competitive drifting? or just show off to friends illegally in parking lots and the streets?
unless your going to be competitive, I doubt you need to worry about setting up your car to make it go sideways when you want, especially if its turbocharged. that brings up c..
c) go NA-T
where will you get the swap done for you if u choose 1jz. how long ago for that person, to have done a 1jz into a lhd car. will you be satisfied with not everything working as it did from factory..?
where will you find all the ANNOYING oem parts, or even aftermarket parts for the maintenance, as there are some things that just are NOT interchangeable with the 2jz.
d) if you get a chance, drive some other sc300/sc400/soarers see what you like, what you don't, before making any decision on things like suspension, engine, etc..
to this day, I have yet to sit in a soarer with coilivers that make me feel like its worth spending money to "upgrade" from my TEMS suspension. (which you don't have) but I have driven an airbagged sc400 and WHOA im sold... but until ive driven a few different setups around the track, and around the city.. I was all on the bandwagon of coilovers > oem struts...
just like FMIC > SMIC ... well now its the other way around... new SMIC and you don't need some ugly front grilled waste of money, that doesn't cool better than what Toyota and many other manufacturers spent millions researching. (again 20yr old stuff can benefit from being replaced)
again all opinions.. everyone has them - so see if you can get the experience first hand, drive a few of our cars, or in them, and make your own decisions, don't just listen to a few ppl that say.. this.. or that.. or steer you into whatever direction because we all like different things and you will likely decide on your OWN what you want, and wont have to ask us to help make a decision.
a) auto soarer > 5spd soarer and auto supra tt > 5 & 6 spd Supra tt.
why? they are faster, easier to drive around on a daily basis, built automatic transmisisons are AWESOME, not to mention you never tire from the downshifting from 3rd or 4th into 1st or second as the torque converter locks up and you can send your car sideways ... which brings up b..
b) drifting... really? competitive drifting? or just show off to friends illegally in parking lots and the streets?
unless your going to be competitive, I doubt you need to worry about setting up your car to make it go sideways when you want, especially if its turbocharged. that brings up c..
c) go NA-T
where will you get the swap done for you if u choose 1jz. how long ago for that person, to have done a 1jz into a lhd car. will you be satisfied with not everything working as it did from factory..?
where will you find all the ANNOYING oem parts, or even aftermarket parts for the maintenance, as there are some things that just are NOT interchangeable with the 2jz.
d) if you get a chance, drive some other sc300/sc400/soarers see what you like, what you don't, before making any decision on things like suspension, engine, etc..
to this day, I have yet to sit in a soarer with coilivers that make me feel like its worth spending money to "upgrade" from my TEMS suspension. (which you don't have) but I have driven an airbagged sc400 and WHOA im sold... but until ive driven a few different setups around the track, and around the city.. I was all on the bandwagon of coilovers > oem struts...
just like FMIC > SMIC ... well now its the other way around... new SMIC and you don't need some ugly front grilled waste of money, that doesn't cool better than what Toyota and many other manufacturers spent millions researching. (again 20yr old stuff can benefit from being replaced)
again all opinions.. everyone has them - so see if you can get the experience first hand, drive a few of our cars, or in them, and make your own decisions, don't just listen to a few ppl that say.. this.. or that.. or steer you into whatever direction because we all like different things and you will likely decide on your OWN what you want, and wont have to ask us to help make a decision.
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