RPH74

Good find hansjl!! As I said before my slow SC300 doesn't need the 93, I drive it like a grandma anyway. The only car I need 93 in is in my Turbo car running 18psi, and the BMW when I feel like it.

mmarshall

OK...if you guys think you know more than Toyota / Lexus engineers, go ahead and use the low-octane stuff. But just keep in mind that these engineers are paid big bucks and work long hours to develop reliable engines and to test the fuels that go into them........not to mention the EPA, DOT, CAFE, emission, CARB, and all the other standards that have to be met with how an engine burns its fuel. These guys don't tell us to use 93 octane just because some Lexus marketer or manager thinks it is in the Lexus "image" to do so....that is utter nonsense. Lexus warrants their new engines for 6/70, and expects their engineers to produce an engine that will meet that goal without pinging and detonation damage...or from the added heat that knock sensors help create by retarding the timing. Like I said in an earlier post....87 can be used only for brief periods, say if 93 is temporarily not available.
But it's your call and your cars, not ours.

hansjl

Actually, the 93 puts out a few more ponies which I won’t argue with. As to reliable engines, they have been super engineered to handle much more power than is put out even in the later year 400 models. They’re almost bullet proof. As to EPA, DOT, CAFE, emission, CARB, and all the other standards that have to be met with how an engine burns its fuel, I go through a rigid state emissions test every 2 years. Last one was recently and I passed with flying colors with 87. Hey, extra ponies, marketing hype, who knows except to say 87 works well in my 400. Or we can go to the old “got ya”, if you can’t afford it then……… Play on our vanity. NOW WOULD LEXUS DO THAT.....

mmarshall

Another thing that affects what kind of gas you need is how much carbon is built up in the engine. A lot of carbon on the pistons and valves will articicially increase the compression ratio inside the cylinder and cause either pinging or the knock sensors to retard the spark enven more. So some hi-mileage cars that normally use 87 might need 91 or even 93. But in a case like this, the correct thing to do is clean the carbon out so that it will run on the correct 87 to start with.
What is just as important as octane is QUALITY fuel. Cheap cut-rate brands often skimp with the detergent additives, so the carbon just builds up that much quicker.
I generally recommend Chevron, Mobil, or Amoco/ BP....these three brands especially are known to have good additives.

rushgator

I'm not surprised this thread has come back. Was thinking about octane ratings last nite as I filled up my SC for the first time in years with 89 mid-grade. I decided to experiment and see if there are any noticeable differences. Right now, the answer is no. However, I am considering alternating tanks of 89 with tanks of 93, or maybe even mixing half and half. If that averaged out to a rating of 91 by mixing, that would be the same as what is available as premium in some area, like California.

Interesting article, hansjl! Thanks for posting. Here's a phrase that caught my eye:

"Import brands, especially, use premium fuel to distinguish their upmarket models. Most Toyotas, for instance, are designed to run on regular or midgrade, while the automaker's Lexus luxury brand prefers premium. Same with Honda and its Acura luxury line."

That has me wondering what the JDM Soarers specify for their fuel. So, any Soarer owners out there wish to respond?

Also, are there any petrochemical engineers on this forum? Lets hear from you!

With the price of 93 hitting $1.89 a gallon, vs. 87 $1.71 a gallon, it definitely has me reconsidering puchasing premium at every fill up.

RPH74

Actually my mechanic who is helping me tune my Eclipse also mentioned that the automotive engineers design cars that can run ANYWHERE around the world, just as the article mentioned. This means that they must be able to run on lower octane fuels, and not just premium.

This is coming from a man who was once a head technician for Mercedes-Benz in Germany. He mentioned that even Porsches which we think of as running on premium only are sold around the world and must be suited for all those conditions.

London Bill

Sorry I cant help with the Octane discussion but I filled my Soarer tank yesterday (and most days) but this time I got a shock, thats about 70Ltr.

London Bill

Or $104.70USD for a tank of premium grade (they did not have the "Super" grade which is even more expensive).

Mind you it costs me £42.50 to drive into London each trip..

Petrol £25
Congestion Charge £5 (if I remember to pay it before 10pm or it goes up to £10)
Parking £12.50 (4hrs).

Total £42.50 - $76.20USD to drive to work, about 100ml round trip.

And thats without the £100 fine I got last week for parking in a "Loading Zone".

As well as the incidentals of daily driving we also pay £180/year "Road Tax" & car insurance will average another £500 per car (I have 4 cars - DOH!), the UK considers the motorist to be a mobile Cash Cow, there is a word I use describe these people but I have be warned by the Mods not to use it ever again.

hansjl

Rushgator, the credit for the posting needs to go to 350Z since I just did a copy and paste from his earlier post. I've seen similar articles on the use of 87 versus 93. All agree that putting anything higher than 87, unless there is a real pinging problem is a waste of $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$.

As for the carbon build up mentioned, try some BG 44K since it's just the full strength additive put into certain gasolines. (Moderator, I hope I'm not violating any posting rules by mentioning a specific product. There are threads on CL for BG44K. If I screwed up, sorry and you can modify). If you're pinging from carbon, it may help.

London Bill, Wow......................... We're fortunate here in the States that we're not taxed to death on gas. Now living around the nations capitol, I wouldn't mind seeing a hefty entrance fee imposed for the general area on all of the tourist that clog our road during the tourist season.............. On the other hand, the Washington government wants to impose extra taxes for working in the city. I guess on either side of the Atlantic you're going to be screwed if you need gas and drive into cities................. So being a cash cow, do they make you say Moooooooooooooo as you're getting screwed with the cost of ownership for your cars????

rushgator

Bill, I feel for you. They really do rape you in the UK. Baz and I were talking about the price of fuel in the UK at his place the other night. What scares me about the situation in the UK is that it is only a matter of time until we have the same issues here. The government doesn't just want to get into our wallets, it wants the whole wallet.

mikeloc24

Gaaaaawd damn! What the?????? $76 to drive to work?!?!?!!! I guess I have no complaints afterall.....but to add a little to the thread I filled up with 89, and felt guilty...until I drove around and didn't notice anything different regarding mileage or performance. Just my .02

BAZ

There's little to add than whats been previously said, except boys & girls enjoy it while you can! as you have yet to go through what i & bill have gone through in the UK. Yes it's innevitable, i do not see the price of fuel coming down if at all much before you'l see it go back up! but its more subtle than that it just goes up steadily,at times you won't even notice it. At times it got soo bad in the UK that people took matters into there own hands & picketed the main fuel depots,stopping all fuel going out! in a bid to bring the country to it's senses [knees] THEY JUST BROUGHT THE MILITARY IN!

Little boys & there big *** trucks will be forced to be a thing of the past, & i say good ridence [sheer waste]
........................................................................THAT INCLUDES SUV'S
I think the equv to fill up in the UK on best fuel [ depending on exchange rate ] = $120? Wake up guys & stop winging!! you've never had it so good, & no don't skimp on fuel! subjective as it may be, i believe the higher grade the fuel the more refined! in the UK i used SHELL, seemed to get a little more miles+ power but its very subtle, most peeps would never notice the diff.....

Bill, soo glad you can back my point up with that recipt, ta.

Glenn i wouldn't personally mix your fuel! but i don't think it does any harm to change down to the lower grade now & then......flex its muscles [ ECU ] [ let it know who's boss ]

Jdm's were made in japan to run on 100 ron, again i am NO expert on this, but i know from my travels that
all fuels are not the same, especially from country to country.
I honestly thought that Octane & Ron were one of the same just the terminology being diff...!!!

Just to add..... i have a thing about adding additives.....be very careful......the older the car.....the more the probs can be!!!!......especially with fuel additives......they tend to churn up a loada a crap!! ...u know wot that means....

Baz.

hansjl

With all the insanity going on in the Middle East, I believe we need to take all the oil fields, hell it would only be another 250K troops, confiscate the tankers, refineries, and the rest of the oil industry equipment, and get back to twenty five cent a gallon, five dollar a fill up gas. Isn’t that the reason we’re there now anyway? This would also cause the collapse of this thread forever since 93 octane would cost twenty-seven cents. BAZ is right, get used to it, it’s here to stay for a while.

TGRich

I really hope you're joking b/c you make yourself sound quite ignorant.

Anyway, I'm with you BAZ- I've been aruond the world and know that we still have it good here. I also think that a couple extra dollars is hard on me when gas goes up- but who really pays? It's all those people who have the wasteful SUVS. It even brings a small smile to my face

hansjl

Actually I was being SARCASTIC since we as a country enjoy one of the least expensive fuel costs in the world. If one goes to Europe, they’ll see lots of bicycles being used and public transportation in vogue. If most of the world could get $2.00 a gallon gas, they’d be tickled pink. If you look at my reference to the collapse of the thread forever, it’s been around for a long time and you’ll note the “if you can’t afford it” people that post their thoughts based upon owning a Lexus.

My comment about why we’re there just happens to be my political view and I apologize for posting it. I look at 86 Billion dollars, 809 coalition deaths, 706 Americans, 59 Britons, five Bulgarians, one Dane, one Estonian, 17 Italians, 2 Poles, 1 Salvadoran, 11 Spaniards, 2 Thai and 4 Ukrainians, in the war as of April 22, 2004 , and 0 weapons of mass destruction found. Were you around to count dead friends during Vietnam? I was and I hope you don’t have to count any during this conflict.

Moderator, if you want to scratch or edit this post, please do. Sorry for getting carried away but the opening salvo was fired by TGRich in his opening remark.

As for wasteful SUV’s, my 4-Runner gets 18 to 19 MPG, and my 400 gets 20 or 21. If you do thread searches on gas mileage for 400’s you’ll find lots of drivers that can’t even squeeze 18 out on a good day. So with your six banger, what mileage do you get?

If you read my post closely, you’ll note that I said “BAZ is right, get used to it” and in your opening you state “Anyway, I'm with you BAZ. “ Speak of ignorant; is there really much difference in our comments? Then again, perhaps you’re offended because you’re from an oil state that’s in the financial pits.