why NO SC300 w/ 2JZ?
05-27-05, 04:40 AM
#18
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Originally Posted by rominl
it's not even a coupe? are you ok? what part of it tells you that it's not a coupe? you have seen the mb cls commercial way too much lately??!! 
anyway, the new sc is not like the old sc that's for sure, very clearly. but lexus decides that the new sc430 is what they want to persue rather than the old sc that's what i can tell
anyway, the new sc is not like the old sc that's for sure, very clearly. but lexus decides that the new sc430 is what they want to persue rather than the old sc that's what i can tell
Anything that does not have a solid non removable roof is not a coupe, its called a hardtop, which really isnt that much of step up from a ragtop convertible imo the sc430 is a convertible.
I liked the older SC, to this day if you were to ask me to trade scs I would, only so I could sell the sc430 and buy a couple of older sc's.
05-27-05, 09:01 AM
#19
Originally Posted by Inabj2
Anything that does not have a solid non removable roof is not a coupe, its called a hardtop, which really isnt that much of step up from a ragtop convertible imo the sc430 is a convertible.
I liked the older SC, to this day if you were to ask me to trade scs I would, only so I could sell the sc430 and buy a couple of older sc's.
I liked the older SC, to this day if you were to ask me to trade scs I would, only so I could sell the sc430 and buy a couple of older sc's.
05-27-05, 01:47 PM
#20
Originally Posted by rominl
it's not even a coupe? are you ok? what part of it tells you that it's not a coupe? you have seen the mb cls commercial way too much lately??!!
anyway, the new sc is not like the old sc that's for sure, very clearly. but lexus decides that the new sc430 is what they want to persue rather than the old sc that's what i can tell
anyway, the new sc is not like the old sc that's for sure, very clearly. but lexus decides that the new sc430 is what they want to persue rather than the old sc that's what i can tell
It definately is a coupe. My gripe though is it is no longer a hard top. I've never been a convertable guy. Retractable hard tops are better, but I'd stil like the fixed roofs more. The most I can tolorte is a removable T top. I still don't understand the facination with convertables. Where I live there is no use for a convertable
Serously though, I do with they came out with a true fixed hard top version of the SC.
05-27-05, 11:14 PM
#21
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Originally Posted by Bean
Yes, but his point is that the LS is a flagship sedan and only offers the V8. There are no NEW vehicles introduced after 1999 that carry the 2jz. The new IS doesnt, the new GS doesnt.
and yes, 2JZ-GE are still around up to 2004. ill keep it clean and not gonna flame at you.
Originally Posted by Bean
Dont preach to any of us about the true power of those blocks; we are well aware of it; probably a lot more so than you are. Its true power is NOT in a luxury car tho. You will never EVER have the low-end torque and quick response that the properly tuned UZ-series engine provides these cars. Sure the 2jz works GREAT in a 3300-3400lb sports coupe, but not in a 4000lb luxury sedan or convertible coupe where the owner floors it and wants it to accelerate quickly when he wants it instead of waiting on a turbo to respond. (dont preach to me about sequential turbos either; they still arent as responsive as the newer interations of the UZ-series V8)
like i said, its prolly market toward the older generation than the younger whom like to tune cars. so dont miss that statement.
Originally Posted by Bean
The 2jz is dead according to Toyota. No cars out now use it at all. They may be able to slap new stuff on it; but its still not as efficient as the new V6s, it still doesnt make as much torque (without a turbo of course) and doesnt make as much horsepower (again without the turbo). The new V6s are ULEV II which is a great environmental rating, and the one going in the IS350 will make OVER 300hp and still make great gas mileage due to VVTL-i, direct injection, and a whole slew of other new stuff that the 2jz never had and never will have.
so whats so new about the new engine vs the older GE w/ VVT-i? oh wait....maybe it has a true Vtec(VVTLi)? sorry ... just had to say it.....
Originally Posted by Bean
Not saying the new V6s are better tuner motors than the 2jz (who knows tho, they MIGHT be, no one has played with them yet). I AM saying, however, that the new V6 is a better motor than the 2jz where it counts in the car market.
dont forget, i did mention that the SC prolly aimin for the older generation, so dont misinterpret that.
btw, i dont come on here to flame anyone, just sharing interest. if you want to rage at someone then take it somewhere. we arent in a toyota board room in Japan or some plant tryin to come up w/ new design.... only tryin to share interest...... keep ur tone down.
05-27-05, 11:17 PM
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forget solara, go get a honda w/ their new Kseries.
Originally Posted by rominl
haha, on its defense, the v6 in the solara is no match to the legendary 2jz engine 
plus, on a fwd car, you can't make it fun
plus, on a fwd car, you can't make it fun
05-27-05, 11:20 PM
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well ivent seen the topic started, just sharing some interest. am only one person here, no where in hell would make a diff to toyota makers.....right????
werdddd!!!!
Originally Posted by rominl
all points well taken, we know the potential of the 2jz, but you also know very well that it's not going to happen, at all. that's not lexus, they will not do that. power is not something they will really care now.
Originally Posted by rominl
and yup, a lot more gs300 than gs400 on the road, but who cares. lexus don't really care to have more sc on the road i think. that's more like a status car to them imho
05-27-05, 11:25 PM
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yeah i know its a luxury, but wouldnt it be more fun to leave some door open for those whom have interest???
whats the third one??? exclusivity????....J/k j/k j/k
point taken!!!!
i like how you just came up w/ the 3pointers....
whats the third one??? exclusivity????....J/k j/k j/k
point taken!!!!
i like how you just came up w/ the 3pointers....
Originally Posted by Bean
Simple, its not an enthusiasts car Its a LUXURY car... its a premium nameplate
and the three FIRSTS of a luxury car are:
1) V8 engine
2) Rear-Wheel Drive
3) Exclusivity
They arent out to make big money with this car; thats reserved for the ES, IS, and RX. Its a premium flagship luxury car with an image that comes with it. Its not supposed to be affordable or easy to get... its supposed to be exclusive... if theres a lot on the road, its not an exclusive car anymore; and the "IT-car" buyers will buy something else that is (like your various Mercedes or BMW models)
Its a LUXURY car... its a premium nameplateand the three FIRSTS of a luxury car are:
1) V8 engine
2) Rear-Wheel Drive
3) Exclusivity
They arent out to make big money with this car; thats reserved for the ES, IS, and RX. Its a premium flagship luxury car with an image that comes with it. Its not supposed to be affordable or easy to get... its supposed to be exclusive... if theres a lot on the road, its not an exclusive car anymore; and the "IT-car" buyers will buy something else that is (like your various Mercedes or BMW models)
05-28-05, 12:52 PM
#26
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if an sc300 was made, i personally wouldn't buy the sc430 because i wouldn't feel special anymore for having such a beautiful machine because all my neighbors will have an SC too, the 300, that is.
yes the 2jz is an amazing engine, but lets face it, it's old school technology. It sucks in a big luxury car. If you really want it that bad, why dont you purchase an SC430, take out the brand spanking new V8, throw it a way and slap the 2jz in there and then you can turbo it all you want.
I'm not trying to be rude, but just let it go man
yes the 2jz is an amazing engine, but lets face it, it's old school technology. It sucks in a big luxury car. If you really want it that bad, why dont you purchase an SC430, take out the brand spanking new V8, throw it a way and slap the 2jz in there and then you can turbo it all you want.
I'm not trying to be rude, but just let it go man
05-28-05, 01:49 PM
#27
As others have said, Lexus must be happy with the sales report of the sc430 because not only did they make only one engine choice....they made the thing too small for big guys. I think a lot of athletes and big guys would buy it if they could fit in the thing. They're also missing sales from people who would prefer a fixed roof. The convertible hardtop seems okay but it still isn't a fixed roof. That makes it a convertible by definition.
05-29-05, 11:41 AM
#28
Originally Posted by Woogie
if an sc300 was made, i personally wouldn't buy the sc430 because i wouldn't feel special anymore for having such a beautiful machine because all my neighbors will have an SC too, the 300, that is.
yes the 2jz is an amazing engine, but lets face it, it's old school technology. It sucks in a big luxury car. If you really want it that bad, why dont you purchase an SC430, take out the brand spanking new V8, throw it a way and slap the 2jz in there and then you can turbo it all you want.
I'm not trying to be rude, but just let it go man
yes the 2jz is an amazing engine, but lets face it, it's old school technology. It sucks in a big luxury car. If you really want it that bad, why dont you purchase an SC430, take out the brand spanking new V8, throw it a way and slap the 2jz in there and then you can turbo it all you want.
I'm not trying to be rude, but just let it go man
unless now, the people who buy the sc430 are those who wants the performance and also the status of the car. just my 2 cents
06-01-05, 11:42 AM
#29
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Just too add a few ideas into the mix here.
If there was a second gen SC300 with a 2JZ, I don't think it would dilute the image as much as people would think. Why?
1. Price: An SC300 wouldn't be 10k less. Engine alone wouldn't warrant a price drop like this. The first gen SC3/4 had a price gap like this because they also had other differences (wheels/tires, bodywork, brakes, stereo, misc. options). If you kept the two new cars the same with just the engine as the difference, the price gap wouldn't be so high so the car would still be out of the financial reach of many.
2. Image: V8 or inline 6, the car is still not for everyone. Just because you slap a sixer in the SC does not mean it will be another GS (in sales volume). It's still a hardtop convertible with 2 doors and a tiny back seat. In comparison to other Lexus models, it's an impractical car. There's no trunk room to speak of, the back seat is too small and 2-doors turns off many buyers. So offering a cheaper engine option doesn't mean all your neighbors will get in line for one. Miatas are very cheap and they don't sell millions of those either.
Just some thoughts. I think the V8 is great and it works. It's a shame it's not as easily tunable as the inline sixer but these are just results of what Toyota decides based issues that don't concern us. So we can't hold it against them. Besides, they have a point. A sixer in the SC would be underpowered.
A nice TRD blower that bolts on with a warranty would be nice, tho.
That, or a V12 SC600.
Of course neither are of interest to Toyota but maybe one day.
If there was a second gen SC300 with a 2JZ, I don't think it would dilute the image as much as people would think. Why?
1. Price: An SC300 wouldn't be 10k less. Engine alone wouldn't warrant a price drop like this. The first gen SC3/4 had a price gap like this because they also had other differences (wheels/tires, bodywork, brakes, stereo, misc. options). If you kept the two new cars the same with just the engine as the difference, the price gap wouldn't be so high so the car would still be out of the financial reach of many.
2. Image: V8 or inline 6, the car is still not for everyone. Just because you slap a sixer in the SC does not mean it will be another GS (in sales volume). It's still a hardtop convertible with 2 doors and a tiny back seat. In comparison to other Lexus models, it's an impractical car. There's no trunk room to speak of, the back seat is too small and 2-doors turns off many buyers. So offering a cheaper engine option doesn't mean all your neighbors will get in line for one. Miatas are very cheap and they don't sell millions of those either.
Just some thoughts. I think the V8 is great and it works. It's a shame it's not as easily tunable as the inline sixer but these are just results of what Toyota decides based issues that don't concern us. So we can't hold it against them. Besides, they have a point. A sixer in the SC would be underpowered.
A nice TRD blower that bolts on with a warranty would be nice, tho.
That, or a V12 SC600.
Of course neither are of interest to Toyota but maybe one day.
06-13-05, 07:05 AM
#30
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Is it just me or is toyota saying if you want a v6 sport coupe...buy a solara.
Also, LS and SC share the same powerplant. the LS600 is coming as a hybrid I onder if there are plans for an sc600 also.
G
Also, LS and SC share the same powerplant. the LS600 is coming as a hybrid I onder if there are plans for an sc600 also.
G