howardde

So I haven't heard back from the "Service Director" yet, so I don't want to conclude that this is over, but to your point, yes, I did sign the estimate as well as the final bill, so I likely cannot dispute anything. One caveat though, they did stamp/sign my Lexus maintenance book which states the services that were performed...and as you see above, it was supposed to include those that were "extras." So maybe I have some leverage there. I would just hope this dealer wouldn't want to have an unsatisfied customer. I am a lawyer, no, not a litigator, nor do I deal with contracts, so I wasn't really attuned to the fact that I was getting ripped off...furthermore, I doubt this dealer would like to have me eMail blast my entire (very large) law firm warning fellow lawyers to stay away from them (probably 30% of the lawyers here have a Lexus).

And again, I was heeding everyone's advice, but at the same time I was giving the dealership the benefit of the doubt, which was obviously at my peril.

Tammy

Did they do the following from your list?

Replace air conditioner filter
Replace brake fluid
Replace engine air filter
Replace engine coolant
Replace engine oil and oil filter
Rotate tires (Balance?)

If so, "clearly" document it in your book. Use the next block space if needed. These are important to your value.

oohpapi44

iTrader: (1)

As a customer, you always have leverage with your opinion and review of the establishment, you are correct. To cover yourself, have someone else go to the exact same dealership and get a written estimate, handout, or pamplhet of what THEY offer for the 60K service and everything it includes. If they tell the second person that the stuff that wasn't done to your car is optional it is a moot point since dealerships are independently owned and operated.

Your problem will be to prove what wasn't done because now it becomes your word against the service reps' since you don't have documentation of what was done (illegible invoice).

Hopefully the Service Director will give you some satisfaction (I wouldn't threaten them with bad word of mouth to your colleagues since that's an old method and doesn't really work unless you're a reporter or celebrity)

minty99z

The only thing thats not mandatory for a 60k service is the A/C filter....Im telling you to dispute the charges if they dont credit you. It is NOT very difficult to get a credit from the card. I have a 100k Blue Amex that treats me like a king if I need to dispute anything and its not an issue even if you signed for it. The 60k comes with what I told you end of story. Start acting like a REAL lawyer and dont take it with lube, give it right back to them!

DChuka

LOL! Are you sure you're from IL? You sound like you're from NYC!!

b1gredek

too bad your not in so cali,, i could have gotten the brakes,, full service with the tranny flush for around 500.....

rominl

iTrader: (4)

be persistent and see what the advisor / manager says. bottom line is, yes you signed the estimate, that's not reversible, but still they have to state clearly what they do for the 60k service. they HAVE to list them or at least tell you what they have done, otherwise i think you have a case against them.

and then compare that to what they say on the extra service and see why they are not included. like i said before, for the price you paying, most of those services should be included already, especailly when they are STANDARD for most 60k service anyway

SCSpeed

I don't think his tranny is flushed completely. It's just drained and refilled normally with a few quartz of fluid. When it's said "Flush", it has to be continuously filled with fluid and drained at the same times for about 1/2 hour until the fluid comes out completely new as the fluid being filled. And then, it'll be plugged up and refilled. This real flush can be up to 40-60 quartz of fluid.

However, I doubt that Lexus dealer really flushed. Flushing can cost a lot of money and can cost up to a few hundred bucks depending on the shops.

Also, why would anyone believe in the dealers' 15k services, 30k services, 60k services...etc. They're mostly crap. Look at their lists and you'll know exactly what are being done. They're all "Checks" with a very few real works such as oil change...etc. If you really worry and want to maintain the car in good shape, the trick is to get that list and bring your car to a creditable mechanic and have him done the same. You can save at least 1/2 of what you pay to the dealers, or you may even pay for only 1/3 of them. Those "Check List" can be easily done by any average mechanic with a good heart. Unless when it comes to engine or tranny rebuild, then you might want to consider the dealers.

GILLEXUS

iTrader: (14)

howardde ,
Did you try just calling your dealer and asking them what all is included in the 60K service? I would be curious and see what they say over hte phone. see if they advertise all the fluids change but change their tune when people come in for it OR if they don't even advertise that they do all the fluid change.

clubaddict

heres the matienance menu from the local dealer here..

Maintenance 30k miles $408.35
plus
Replace engine coolant (2002-03) $64.95
Measure brake pad thickness & routor runout (2004-06) $34.50
Inspect engine coolant (2006-06) $5.75

Included in the Basic Maintenance C service is
Replace air conditioner filter
Replace brake fluid
Replace engine air filter
Replace engine oil & oil filter
Re-torque axle shaft flange bolts
Road test vehicle
Rotate tires
Inspect fuel lines & vapor system
Inspect fuel tank cap gasket
Inspect transmission flud
inc *INSPECTION 1* which includes
Inspect the following:
Ball joints & dust covers
Body
Brake lines & hoses
Brake pads & rotors
DIfferential oil
Axle shaft boots
Exhaust pipes & mountings
Rack & pinion assembly
Steering linkage & boots

oh and I asked about the engine oil and they said they use conventional oil and if I wanted synthetic it would be another $40 on top..
Labor rate is $120/hr

I dont really trust mechanics in general... looks likes its mostly 'checks'... anyone hear stories of mechanics just skipping over some of the services/checks?

rominl

iTrader: (4)

yup, more than likely they just drain it and fill up that's all, instead of flushing the whole thing, which will take up 12 to 16 qts easily. but that's what most places do anyway, coz' the full flush is very expensive.

howardde

Well, I took all of your advice, grew a sac, and went up the chain of command at my Atlanta Lexus dealer to the Service Manager....not before talking with my "service consultant" who was a complete waste of my time. She actually called the additional recommended services that they recommended "upcharges" and she stated, "you refused the upcharges so that it is no longer our problem." I couldn't believe she actually called them "upcharges" because that makes it sound like they are supposed to upsell customers on all of this crap. Anyway, after 15 minutes of fighting with her and getting nowhere, I asked for her boss, the Service Manager.

He was actually the nicest car guy I have ever dealt with. He was calm, listened to me completely and then said he'd call the competing major dealer here in Atlanta to verify my claim that they include all of the "upcharges" for basically the same price as my 60,000 mile service. Long story short, he called the next day and verified my claim, but he pointed out that the other dealership does not replace some belts or do an alignment as part of their 60,000 mile service, which my dealer did. I told him those are not even Lexus recommended items at 60,000 miles, whereas all of the "upcharges" are and finally, they signed my Lexus book stating that they had done all of the Lexus services. I told him the only way I would use them again is if they did all of the "upcharges" for free. He agreed to that and I drove over there immediately and he personally greeted me, apologized over and over again for the way I was treated. I was able to watch them do the service (about 2 hours) and then they washed my car, filled the gas tank up and then gave me this amazing coupon book that has all these free oil changes, tire rotations, 30% off $100 or more, etc. (guess its for people that spend a lot of money with them).

So, I left satisfied with the resolution. Call me crazy, but now I'm considering using them again for service...this Service Manager told me to call him when I have another service appointment, so maybe they'll be more responsive now. What do you think?

minty99z

Just compare prices with another dealer before you go in next time to see if the coupon even does anything. That lady should be fired....but then again, its her job to make them money....most people wouldnt argue with her cuz she is a woman....

tfischer

Sounds good to me.

A good company/store/dealership will try hard to correct a customer dissatisfaction problem. Lower level staff are not always so responsive, as they have no investment in the company.

I would call the Service Manager directly (and only him) the next time and take him up on his offer. My guess is that he will roll out the red carpet for you.

When I had a problem with the new tires on a CPO I purchased a while back, the salesman called the service department and they were waiting for me when I pulled in and they fixed the problem (4 new valve stems that should have been put on with the new tires but were not, for some unknown reason) while I waited for about 20 minutes at the most. They offered a loaner if I wanted to go off premises for a while. They went out of their way to very quickly fix something they did wrong, and I have no reservations about recommending this dealership to my friends. Had they not fixed the tires, I would not be so happy, but I know that mistakes happen. The good places will say so and fix it fast. If they just argue with you, that's a place to avoid.

It sounds to me like the service manager has the right attitude, and in my experience with Lexus (about 15 years) having the service manager as your new best friend is not a bad thing.

Keep that card in your wallet and use it.

rominl

iTrader: (4)

congrats on the right resolution, that's one stand up manager there who realizes the importance of customer service and willing to go out and make things right. props to them. and good that you were being calm and persistent as well. being reasonable and persistent is golden!