Alternator Question
11-25-06, 08:34 AM
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Alternator Question
ok, I have a 2002 SC430 with 52k miles on it. On Wed I was driving at night with the lights on and wipers on (it was raining). I stopped in to a store then came out and the car wouldn't start, battery was dead. I called road side, they came and gave me a jump. Drove the car home for 45 minutes, got home turned off the car, tried to start it, it wouldn't start. So I figured I needed a new battery.
I came on this forum yesterday and read that the battery is covered under the warranty. Called roadside assistance and they told me the same, but they said I would need to drive it to my lexus service place.
I got a jump, drove the car for 60 minutes without shutting it off, ran fine, no lights came on or anything.
Get the car to the service center, they test the battery and told me it needs to be replaced, and that the warranty doesn't cover batteries, it would be $185.00. I was a bit upset but $185.00 is not that bad.
Waited an hour in the waiting area, service guy comes out and tells me that after they replaced the battery, it (new battery) wouldn't take the charge, said they need to replace the alternator. New alternator is $760 plus new battery and tax, over $1000.00.
They didn't have the alternator in stock so I had to leave my car till Tuesday am, they gave me a loaner.
I find this alternator issue a bit fishy since I was able to drive the car 2 times at almost an hour at a time. My question is, if the alterator was bad would I have been able to drive it for 60 minutes to the service station? Also, do the service people get commission on the parts that get installed into my car?
Thanks in advance.
I came on this forum yesterday and read that the battery is covered under the warranty. Called roadside assistance and they told me the same, but they said I would need to drive it to my lexus service place.
I got a jump, drove the car for 60 minutes without shutting it off, ran fine, no lights came on or anything.
Get the car to the service center, they test the battery and told me it needs to be replaced, and that the warranty doesn't cover batteries, it would be $185.00. I was a bit upset but $185.00 is not that bad.
Waited an hour in the waiting area, service guy comes out and tells me that after they replaced the battery, it (new battery) wouldn't take the charge, said they need to replace the alternator. New alternator is $760 plus new battery and tax, over $1000.00.
They didn't have the alternator in stock so I had to leave my car till Tuesday am, they gave me a loaner.
I find this alternator issue a bit fishy since I was able to drive the car 2 times at almost an hour at a time. My question is, if the alterator was bad would I have been able to drive it for 60 minutes to the service station? Also, do the service people get commission on the parts that get installed into my car?
Thanks in advance.
11-25-06, 09:52 AM
#2
There's something fishy. First of all, either a bad alternator or bad regulator, should have triggered a dash light immediately. Second of all, if you didn't notice a difference with the lights on, it points to the regulator, not the alternator (although it could be part of the alternator assembly; don't know). The extra voltage eventually fries the battery. Third of all, if the alternator is not producing a charge, what the heck powered the car for 60 miles with the lights on? Even if just one phase (out of 3) went out, you'd immediately notice.
Now to reality. You don't have much of a choice right now with the car disabled at the dealer, but their diagnosis doesn't sound reassuring to me at all. The good news is that after a new battery, the only 2 components left are the alternator and regulator. Everything points to the regulator, in my view, but I suspect it might be part of the alternator assembly; inquire about that, plus why you didn't get a dash light (something's wrong with that picture).
The bad news is you could have bought a much better battery than stock for $90, like I did (Checkers) when mine failed after 3 years... and got reimbursed the full amount by Lexus, but I'm still under warranty. I'd fight that charge like a cat upside down, because they misdiagnosed the problem to begin with. Yes, you probably needed a new battery after 5 years of age and being completely discharged, but that's not the point. And their diagnosis afterwards just doesn't add up. I wouldn't trust them.
Finally, your choices. If you still want them to do the job, I'd get something IN WRITING that they guarantee that charge will fix your problem. And why your car didn't trigger a dash light if something is wrong with the charging system.
What would I do? Since the car runs with a jump, I'd get the hell out of that place. I'd make them put my old battery back since the misdiagnosed the problem. Or offer them $90, which is what an A/M one costs. Then I'd go straight to a reputable shop and get the car hooked up and see what it shows. Without a dash light, it's very likely your charging system (alternator/regulator) is fine, but you could still have a problem, like a gad ground, etc. Then go buy yourself a new battery at Checkers (only place I found they carry it) for $90 total.
IF it's the alternator indeed, I'd look for a pristine one on a junk yard around the country (thank the internet for that), which should cost you a small fraction of a new one. I can't imagine not finding one right away, being the same from '02 to '07.
Keep us posted buddy, and good luck.
Now to reality. You don't have much of a choice right now with the car disabled at the dealer, but their diagnosis doesn't sound reassuring to me at all. The good news is that after a new battery, the only 2 components left are the alternator and regulator. Everything points to the regulator, in my view, but I suspect it might be part of the alternator assembly; inquire about that, plus why you didn't get a dash light (something's wrong with that picture).
The bad news is you could have bought a much better battery than stock for $90, like I did (Checkers) when mine failed after 3 years... and got reimbursed the full amount by Lexus, but I'm still under warranty. I'd fight that charge like a cat upside down, because they misdiagnosed the problem to begin with. Yes, you probably needed a new battery after 5 years of age and being completely discharged, but that's not the point. And their diagnosis afterwards just doesn't add up. I wouldn't trust them.
Finally, your choices. If you still want them to do the job, I'd get something IN WRITING that they guarantee that charge will fix your problem. And why your car didn't trigger a dash light if something is wrong with the charging system.
What would I do? Since the car runs with a jump, I'd get the hell out of that place. I'd make them put my old battery back since the misdiagnosed the problem. Or offer them $90, which is what an A/M one costs. Then I'd go straight to a reputable shop and get the car hooked up and see what it shows. Without a dash light, it's very likely your charging system (alternator/regulator) is fine, but you could still have a problem, like a gad ground, etc. Then go buy yourself a new battery at Checkers (only place I found they carry it) for $90 total.
IF it's the alternator indeed, I'd look for a pristine one on a junk yard around the country (thank the internet for that), which should cost you a small fraction of a new one. I can't imagine not finding one right away, being the same from '02 to '07.
Keep us posted buddy, and good luck.
Last edited by JCtx; 11-25-06 at 09:59 AM.
11-25-06, 10:28 AM
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There's something fishy. First of all, either a bad alternator or bad regulator, should have triggered a dash light immediately. Second of all, if you didn't notice a difference with the lights on, it points to the regulator, not the alternator (although it could be part of the alternator assembly; don't know). The extra voltage eventually fries the battery. Third of all, if the alternator is not producing a charge, what the heck powered the car for 60 miles with the lights on? Even if just one phase (out of 3) went out, you'd immediately notice.
Now to reality. You don't have much of a choice right now with the car disabled at the dealer, but their diagnosis doesn't sound reassuring to me at all. The good news is that after a new battery, the only 2 components left are the alternator and regulator. Everything points to the regulator, in my view, but I suspect it might be part of the alternator assembly; inquire about that, plus why you didn't get a dash light (something's wrong with that picture).
The bad news is you could have bought a much better battery than stock for $90, like I did (Checkers) when mine failed after 3 years... and got reimbursed the full amount by Lexus, but I'm still under warranty. I'd fight that charge like a cat upside down, because they misdiagnosed the problem to begin with. Yes, you probably needed a new battery after 5 years of age and being completely discharged, but that's not the point. And their diagnosis afterwards just doesn't add up. I wouldn't trust them.
Finally, your choices. If you still want them to do the job, I'd get something IN WRITING that they guarantee that charge will fix your problem. And why your car didn't trigger a dash light if something is wrong with the charging system.
What would I do? Since the car runs with a jump, I'd get the hell out of that place. I'd make them put my old battery back since the misdiagnosed the problem. Or offer them $90, which is what an A/M one costs. Then I'd go straight to a reputable shop and get the car hooked up and see what it shows. Without a dash light, it's very likely your charging system (alternator/regulator) is fine, but you could still have a problem, like a gad ground, etc. Then go buy yourself a new battery at Checkers (only place I found they carry it) for $90 total.
IF it's the alternator indeed, I'd look for a pristine one on a junk yard around the country (thank the internet for that), which should cost you a small fraction of a new one. I can't imagine not finding one right away, being the same from '02 to '07.
Keep us posted buddy, and good luck.
Now to reality. You don't have much of a choice right now with the car disabled at the dealer, but their diagnosis doesn't sound reassuring to me at all. The good news is that after a new battery, the only 2 components left are the alternator and regulator. Everything points to the regulator, in my view, but I suspect it might be part of the alternator assembly; inquire about that, plus why you didn't get a dash light (something's wrong with that picture).
The bad news is you could have bought a much better battery than stock for $90, like I did (Checkers) when mine failed after 3 years... and got reimbursed the full amount by Lexus, but I'm still under warranty. I'd fight that charge like a cat upside down, because they misdiagnosed the problem to begin with. Yes, you probably needed a new battery after 5 years of age and being completely discharged, but that's not the point. And their diagnosis afterwards just doesn't add up. I wouldn't trust them.
Finally, your choices. If you still want them to do the job, I'd get something IN WRITING that they guarantee that charge will fix your problem. And why your car didn't trigger a dash light if something is wrong with the charging system.
What would I do? Since the car runs with a jump, I'd get the hell out of that place. I'd make them put my old battery back since the misdiagnosed the problem. Or offer them $90, which is what an A/M one costs. Then I'd go straight to a reputable shop and get the car hooked up and see what it shows. Without a dash light, it's very likely your charging system (alternator/regulator) is fine, but you could still have a problem, like a gad ground, etc. Then go buy yourself a new battery at Checkers (only place I found they carry it) for $90 total.
IF it's the alternator indeed, I'd look for a pristine one on a junk yard around the country (thank the internet for that), which should cost you a small fraction of a new one. I can't imagine not finding one right away, being the same from '02 to '07.
Keep us posted buddy, and good luck.
Do you know if they get commission? He's always trying to pitch me something everytime I take the care in for service, I hate it.
11-25-06, 10:49 AM
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ok got the call back, this is what he said:
- the light doesn't always come on in these situations.
- the have a Alternator tester in the shop and that his mechanics used this machine to test it.
- the reason that I drove it for that long in his opinion (or what he thinks) is that the alnternator had enough power to power the car but not both (charge the car and power the battery).
- He relies on his mechanics and passing what they tell him. They told him Alternator is no good and needs to be replaced.
Ok does some of this sound like BS, yes it does, but at this point I just want it fixed and swollow the $1000. I placed an order on a new LS460 last month which I'll have mid Jan, selling my SC430 in Dec and will use a different service station on the new car.
- the light doesn't always come on in these situations.
- the have a Alternator tester in the shop and that his mechanics used this machine to test it.
- the reason that I drove it for that long in his opinion (or what he thinks) is that the alnternator had enough power to power the car but not both (charge the car and power the battery).
- He relies on his mechanics and passing what they tell him. They told him Alternator is no good and needs to be replaced.
Ok does some of this sound like BS, yes it does, but at this point I just want it fixed and swollow the $1000. I placed an order on a new LS460 last month which I'll have mid Jan, selling my SC430 in Dec and will use a different service station on the new car.
11-25-06, 11:39 AM
#5
If alternator doesn't charge, at least one phase should be out, and that should trigger a fault code (and the light).
The big question is why their techs didn't diagnose that at the beginning? Not even PepBoys would do that; it's not rocket science.
The good news is a new alternator should fix your problem ... if you ever had an alternator one. Just get it in writing, and try to get the battery at cost, since they misdiagnosed your problem in the first place. Good luck.
The big question is why their techs didn't diagnose that at the beginning? Not even PepBoys would do that; it's not rocket science.
The good news is a new alternator should fix your problem ... if you ever had an alternator one. Just get it in writing, and try to get the battery at cost, since they misdiagnosed your problem in the first place. Good luck.
Last edited by JCtx; 11-25-06 at 11:44 AM.
12-04-06, 12:58 PM
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I would be surprised if your alternator went out so soon. Pep Boys or Autozone should be able to test it for you buy hooking up to the car while it is running. There is a slight chance that the regulator is bad, but I doubt it.
Last edited by rsa supra; 12-12-06 at 10:27 AM.
12-05-06, 02:48 PM
#7
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Your alternator wasn't putting out enough charge. A good alternator should put out 13.7-14.1V. The old unit could put out 12.3V just enough to get running but it's not enough to charge your battery.
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12-05-06, 03:55 PM
#8
Sorry, I hate to disagree with RSA SUPRA, but removing the battery cable while the engine running is a very bad idea. If the alternator wasn't bad before, it definitely could be after doing that. Without the battery, the alternator has no regulation, and goes to maximum output immediately, which fries the diodes inside. A good alternator could also fry some ohther components that happen to be on at the time as well because voltage will go up beyond 15 volts.
Have the alternator checked electrically using a load tester, and watch the output voltage AND CURRENT DRAW.
Someone else alluded to the output voltage at 13.7 to 14.4 no load with the meter connected across the battery terminals. You should see little voltage drop when turning on accessories. The extra current from the alternator goes to the components needing current while keeping the battery charged. If battery voltage drops when accessories are turned on, then the alternator cannot keep up with current demand, and the battery will soon die.
Good luck
Have the alternator checked electrically using a load tester, and watch the output voltage AND CURRENT DRAW.
Someone else alluded to the output voltage at 13.7 to 14.4 no load with the meter connected across the battery terminals. You should see little voltage drop when turning on accessories. The extra current from the alternator goes to the components needing current while keeping the battery charged. If battery voltage drops when accessories are turned on, then the alternator cannot keep up with current demand, and the battery will soon die.
Good luck
12-12-06, 10:27 AM
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Sorry, I hate to disagree with RSA SUPRA, but removing the battery cable while the engine running is a very bad idea. If the alternator wasn't bad before, it definitely could be after doing that. Without the battery, the alternator has no regulation, and goes to maximum output immediately, which fries the diodes inside. A good alternator could also fry some ohther components that happen to be on at the time as well because voltage will go up beyond 15 volts.
Have the alternator checked electrically using a load tester, and watch the output voltage AND CURRENT DRAW.
Someone else alluded to the output voltage at 13.7 to 14.4 no load with the meter connected across the battery terminals. You should see little voltage drop when turning on accessories. The extra current from the alternator goes to the components needing current while keeping the battery charged. If battery voltage drops when accessories are turned on, then the alternator cannot keep up with current demand, and the battery will soon die.
Good luck
Have the alternator checked electrically using a load tester, and watch the output voltage AND CURRENT DRAW.
Someone else alluded to the output voltage at 13.7 to 14.4 no load with the meter connected across the battery terminals. You should see little voltage drop when turning on accessories. The extra current from the alternator goes to the components needing current while keeping the battery charged. If battery voltage drops when accessories are turned on, then the alternator cannot keep up with current demand, and the battery will soon die.
Good luck
I always stop by my mechanic's shop and have him throw the a meter on the car these days anyway.
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