deanz

Looks like I may take delivery of a Silver/Black SC430 in Feb. or early March here in Atlanta.

But now I have a dilemma.... Yesterday I went with a buddy to look at BMWs for him. I was very impressed with the 2002 BMW M3 Convertible - which cost about the same as the SC430. Looks like there's a 2 year waiting list for these puppies, but the dealer may be able to get me one (with the options I want) by February. Now I’m feeling a bit torn between which car I should get…. there are positives and negatives to both:
· M3 has room for 4 adults
· M3 has more trunk space than the SC430
· M3 has a very cool sequential shifter (Formula 1 type paddles)
· M3 has a full sized spare and no (harsh riding) run-flats
· M3 has 333 horsepower and is one of the fastest production line cars
· SC430 has distinctive styling – a unique and new look (\everyone has a 3-series)
· SC430 has a retractable hard top – looks cool and can’t be cut into by thieves
· SC430 has Lexus customer service – although I’m sure BMW’s is fine as well
· SC430 has a luxurious interior, can’t be touched by any car I’ve seen

I’m not sure about a couple of things:
· Ride comfort / quality
· Engineering prowess
· Mechanical reliability

I’d very much appreciate any input from people on which car I should go for.

Thank you in advance.


Regards,

Dean

silversc430

BMW>
I had 2 SC430's both of which were turned in as Lemons. After I turned in the 2nd SC I saw the M3 at the auto show and ordered the conv after test driving it. There is no comparison as far as quality, performance, and there is a real back seat. The M3 conv is built performance from the ground up. The SC is nice to look at and be looked at, but I found the overall quality to be lacking and if debadged could pass for a Lincoln product. I ordered mine in Nov. and it should be here in Sept. I ordered Carbon Fibre Black with Cinnamon Int. If you want to get one in less than 2 years- let me know and I can hook you up with the dealer.
BTW, Lexus service is great...untill you have a real problem.

I wonder if this post will be deleted???
Good luck.

NVRENUFHP

I am supposedly first on my dealer's list for an M3 convertible with SMGII trans (the sequential shifter) and the dealer tells me that the trans still hasn't been released to the US. Maybe March, I'm told.

Did your dealer tell you that you can get one right now? Or worse yet, did you see one on the showroom floor? Boy, I'm set to be really, really PO'd if the trans is available now, given what my dealer told me!

deanz

If the SMGII trans has fomula one type paddles - then YES! I did see a hardtop 2002 M3 coup at the Hank Aaron BMW Dealership (just outside Atlanta) with such a shifter.

I would think you could confirm this at another BMW dealership near you - Good Luck!

If possible, could you let me in on how you came to the decision of purchasing the M3?

Thanks.

WJSOLOMON

Originally posted by deanz:

"Looks like I may take delivery of a Silver/Black SC430, but I’m not sure about a couple of things:
· Ride comfort / quality
· Engineering prowess
· Mechanical reliability
I’d very much appreciate any input from people on which car I should go for. Dean"

Dean - Just as there has always been the cyclic flow and ebb of Ocean tides down through History, there has also been folks moving around from one Car Line to another, many times simply because they can, or that that "Magic X Factor" that they once fell in love over with one Car, faded and they lost interest in it, and went off again to recapture all of whatever it is that draws men like a "Moth into the Flame" each Fall at New Car Announcement time, in a competitive make. Some folks herein have moved on from Lexus to BMW, while I have moved from BMW to Lexus.

I grew up in the Car Business - Pontiac GTO, Gran Prix, the complete BMC Car Line from Jag down thru the Healys, MGA's and Morris Minors, as well as Volvo. I owned and drove MB's for 15 years, and prized my 450 SEL for High Speed Cross Country trips.
Later on, I wanted more of a Personal Sport Car, and Ordered a Loaded Miata Hard Top Convertible that delivered in '91 for close to $25 K. Four years later, I traded it in for a BMW 325 Hard Top Convertible, and felt that I had finally made the "Final Step Up"!
I ordered it in a 5-Speed, with the Premium Seats but no Sport Package. Wanting still more Power, I traded it in on a '01 BMW 330 Hard Top Convertible, this time with the slick Automatic that shifted faster than most people could with a Manual, and the Sport Package. The Sport Package Upgraded the Performance Level to Sport Bucket Seats, Sport Suspension, and HD Wheels outfitted with 125 mph Michelons that were fantastic on DRY Pavement, but scarry in High Speed / Heavy Rains, and would slide down my driveway and accross the lawn with just a skiff of snow (Boy did the Neighbors all Howl over that scene!).

Driving it from Indy down to Spartensburg, S.C, and straight back over 12 Hours up through the Smokey Mountains, it hugged the road at 85 - 95 mph like a Rail Road Train on the Track, but rode just like one, as well. With the 70 pound Hard Top in place, it was as quiet as a Tomb, and actually quieter than the SC 430. Too bad BMW doesn't put a better Sound System in the Car, but then there probably is NO comparison to the Mark Levinson Sound Package in the Lexus. BMW's Finish was not as much of a "Show Car" Class as the SC, whose "Buttery Soft" Leather looks and actually smells better than Connally's in the old Jaguars.

Both Cars are "Bench Mark" World Class Leaders in their field, and are currently so popular that you can wait for a year and / or offer to pay $10,000 over Sticker, to improve on your Delivery Time. Both can be expected to hold their Resale Value very well, so if you want to try one over the other just because you can, go for it and drive off in confidence that you can bail out of either one very easily.

To me, the BMW 330 Convertible offered me the Greatest, Most Powerful "Ultimate" Driving Machine currently available in this Price Class, hands down! But after Two of them, I leaned this time for a little more Comfort, a little more Luxury, and more of a relaxed, Low Key, and Understated Luxury Car. In addition, the convenience of not having to lug that 70 pound Top in place, than Store it somewhere when you were out of town and wanted to drive around with the Top Down. Both offer Long Term Warranties, but the BMW Stores work their Parts and Service Departments a lot harder to generate more Income / Profit than Lexus seems interested in.

BMW's are made to be Driven Hard, and put away wet. They are the unquestioned High Performance Cars out there today, and the BMW CCA Car Club offers the most amount of very well organized Fun, than any other Car Club that I'm familiar with, and it's Membership is Huge! At their Annual OKTOBERFEST (attended by more than than 5,000 on a bad year), they like to compete with their Cars, and their Exhaust Note is to a Sport Car Owner's ears, like a Harley is to a Motorcyclist.

It's a pretty stiff ride, and the Sport Seats are more confining than the Lexus, but the SC's Run Flats take some getting used to, as well.

For the Money, try the one that becomes available first, or just follow your heart, and your "Inner Self" to decide which one to go with. You can always bail out much more easliy than with most other makes, and go on over to the other, if your first choice turns out to just not be your "cup of Tea".

From my personal experience with both of these Superior World Class Sport Cars, to me the M3 Convertible is "The ULTIMATE Driving Machine", while the SC is "The ULTIMATE Luxury / Performance Driving Machine".

Each is an acquired taste, but if you want the Fastest One Out There, buy the M3. If your Tastes lean a little more towards Comfort, Luxury, Convenience, and "Subtle Performance", buy the SC. Either way, you'll be driving a Winner.

You'll also find that most of the Automoble Magazine Writers really fawn over the BMW Line, especially the New Revised M3 Model. They like the High Performance and "Rush" that that Engine and Exhaust Noise make at 8,000 RPM. It'll turn you into a "Class A" personality in traffic, whereas with the SC, you pop in another Eagles or Faith Hill CD, take a sip from your Bottled Water, and yawn waiting for the light to turn Green. What's the Hurry, if you're the "Turtle" (SC 430) stopped at the Traffic Light, with a "Rabbit" (M3) right beside you with a 6-Speed Manual ready to suck the "Cirlcle L" off the front end of your sled from a Vacume induced High Speed Take off?

Eventually, you'll be able to catch up with him at 156 mph.

Let us hear how you finally came out, and best of luck on your choice!

Carnut

I may be able to offer some advise, I have owned in the last four years, a 98 GS400, 2000, 540 sport, 99 M roadster 2000 996C2 Cab, 2001 CLK55, 2000 & 2001 LX470, and before the month is over a 996 twin turbo, I am not trying to brag, believe me I loose a ton of money trading cars. Currentl own 2000 911, 2001 LX470 and just picked up a 2002 SC430. Must say the question I would ask myself is what kind of driver am I, because these are not the same type of cars, the SC430 is not a sports car, it is not going to let you fly around corners run flats (which I am having taken of this week) or not. If you want a car you take control of, that lets you push it to its limits (most of us including me do not have the skill for that) then go with the BMW, if you want comfort and a great straight line crusier you cant beat the SC430. As far as service both should be great, I myself never had a major problem with either, now Mercedes, thats another story. Regarless of your choice you will end up with a great car, best of luck.

NVRENUFHP

1) It is god awful fast.

2) It has a transmission to die for.

3) It is beautiful.

4) Push one button and the top goes up/down, latches, the whole shot.

therocker

Carnut is absolutely correct. You have to decide if you are a sports car guy or a sporty car guy. I feel the Lexus blends good, solid performance with optimal luxury. The M3 is a little less luxurious, but it is indeed the ultimate driving machine. But in my opinion, I like my automatic hardtop that my SC 430 has. I also love the look of my car more than the way too similar to the 3 series, M3. The stares never end with the Lexus, so be prepared. The interior in the Lex is nicer, as is the sound system.
There may be times you want a smoother ride, so the Lexus is good. But if you are a true sports car lover you will want the sports car feel of the M3 and not the ride of a Lexus. There are times when I only dream that my car could drive like an M3, but I and most people, I assume, rarely get a chance to drive really fast (due to speed limits and traffic) and get a chance to really take a car to it's limit. Most of the time I want a car that handles well, has power and looks great. That is what the Lexus offers. It is not as fast as an M3. Most cars are not, but for my needs the Lexus works. The M3 convertible also has a cheaper MSRP. However, having had experience with BMWs, there is no comparision between the customer service of BMW and Lexus. Lexus blows BMW away in that department. They are both great cars. I have driven both cars and all I know is they are quite possibly the 2 best cars for the money.

FirstJapCar

Interesting you ask this question because I had the very same dilema myself. I went to test drive the M3 convertible and then the SC430... The bottom line for me was that I wanted a more confortable ride day-to-day but still have the pick-up I am accustomed to. I also love the retractable hard top and Japanese reliability. I had a Z3 that was wonderful the first 20k miles and then had stupid repeat problems BUT I also hear wonderful things about the M3 and that the BMW 3 series is the best model line and most reliable. I asked myself what I would ultimately be happiest with and I don't regret my SC430 at all. Although I should add that I already have a car to race with (a Porsche 911) and I use that for track days in the summer season so I felt I didn't need 2 ultimate sport cars right now.

Like others here are saying, it all depends on what you want for your bottom line? Do you want the ultimate pampering with good performance or do you want BMW's 'Ultimate Driving Machine' where you really can hug the turns but will get jarred around a bit more. If you don't think the ride quality is an issue but performance is, then the M3 is your cup of tea.. but if you want a great reliable high end convertible with very good performance and the most pampering along with great sound system, then the SC430 is your option..

Please do tell us what you end up getting. My guess is you would by happy with either for different reasons.

Best of luck!

FirstJapaneseCar

NVRENUFHP

I don't think that this board is supposed to be one big smiley face. SilverSC430 is obviously very unhappy with his Lexus and he should post about his problem if he wants to. Maybe others can learn from it.

Granted, he's been ranting for quite some time and you'd think that he would be tired or bored by now, but he isn't. Just let him go on and on. Those that have seen his posts before will ignore them. Those that haven't may get information that they consider to be valuable.

silversc430

No Problem Gene- BYE

WJSOLOMON

"Silver Spurs" - Analogies are seldom ever perfect, but here goes...In the Catholic Church, they believe that it's in bad taste for a Priest who has taken off his Collar and leaves the Church, to then show up at the local Watering Hole, and continue a long diatribe about how bad the (Catholic) Church is, and in particular his last two assignments with them. After a while, everyone in the place wishes he would just stop the "Broken Record" stuff, move on down the road and hopefully, spend his time, energies, and resources at trying to make some Other people feel miserable!

As Proud Lexus Owners, we naturally have a tendency to protect our own, and particulary when our favorite Marque is so beset upon by a previous Owner, and one who seems to feed on "Bad Mouthing" the Product, it's Manufacturer, it's Dealers, and putting down it's Owners. We're all over 21 here dude, with considerable experience in these types of High Dollar Investments, Sport Car Knowledge, and "Successful Human Experience" in dealing with others.

After all, the Lexus SC 430 is a "Man-Made" Product, and therin subject to problems, just like anything else in life. But from my considerable experience in Automobiles, from the Stand Point of being the son of a Dealer, on my own as Service Manager, Sales Manager, and now a (Lexus) Owner, I can tell you this Pal, No One in this Industry is more sincere, or tries harder to set the High Water Mark for Design, Build Quality, or Customer Care and Satisfaction, than these folks at Lexus! No One!

You must have really worn out your "Welcome" at your local Lexus Dealer, for them not to have resolved your problems, because I know from my own experience, they really do try to go the extra mile, inorder to please their Customers.

Talk to "Mr. Obvious" sometime when you can take a break from all of your ranting and raving about your sad experiences with our Car Line, and ask him if it doesn't seem pretty "Peculiar" for one guy to have been saddled with Two of these Little Jewels of the Lexis Fleet that appear to have been "Monday Cars", and been unable, or UNWILLING to work things out with the folks at Lexus, or to come to any kind a reasonable and fair compromise.

Perhaps when you're older and more "seasoned", you'll begin to understand that along our journeys in life, there can be a few hills, valleys, twists and turns, in our individual pursuit of happiness, satisfaction, and peace of mind. What helps make our travels along this path a whole lot easier, is our ability to Compromise, and successfully get over some of these "bumps" in the road, to make smoothing out the wrinkles along the way, a whole lot easier.

I've been there where you're going "Silver Spurs", with this "Mean and Lean Driving Machine" - you're Shark-Grinning M3. It's about as subtle as a headache, or an early corvette, and rides about the same. Perhaps you'll find them (BMW) easier to deal with than they used to be, but sometimes their "Superior German Attitude" makes one wonder if they've yet realized that they lost the last War with the World.

Perhaps the two of you deserve each other.

It'll be interesting to see what happens when you try to stuff two of these M3's down their throats, like you did Lexus.

My take on all of this, is that probably you'll end up about like the guy that had grabbed a hold of the Tail of a Bull.............when he finally let go, he was 5 - 6 times smarter than a guy who hasn't tried that yet.

I'd like to wish you "Happy Trails", but something tells me it would just be a waste of a good wish.

Sign me as: The Proud, (and LOYAL) Owner of the "Ultimate Luxury / Performance Driving Machine" - the SC 430.

"When Better Cars are Built, LEXUS will Build Them!)

RodF

Thank you Gene for putting to rest what I hope will be the final good-bye (was it 3 or 4?) This guy made his point 10 times over and we understand where he is coming from, but are just tired of hearing about it AGAIN and AGAIN and AGAIN. Now that he has moved on to (greener?) auto pastures, lets hope he will enjoy his car and let us enjoy ours.

LexusSC430

First off, to the guy flaming Lexus. I just have a picture of this guy in my head about complaining about the stupidest thing, like that for some reason sun glares off the side view mirrors and this guy kept going back to lexus trying to get it fixed. Lexus tries to accomodate him and be nice, but he comes back again and back again and back again. So they say fine we will give you a new car, but it is going to be the same as the old one. He says ok and then the same thing happens and he keeps coming back again and again. Finally, lexus says you know what we will take the car back just GO AWAY!

Now on the onto the topic. I previously had a 98 Supra Turbo with 465hp which would blow the doors off of anything. What a feeling it is to know your car is about the fastes on the road. However the lexus is quite fast and is just absolutely beatiful. My friend has a 330 convertible which i recently was driving. It just has a very cold feeling about it. I also test drove a 911 cabriolet, but german cars seem to have such a cold cabin feeling about them. My lexus and my supra had such a cozy and warm feeling inside, especially the lexus.

Having driven a 12 sec quarter mile car around, I tell you the SC is not giving up much in performance. The BMWs are great handling cars, but the ride suffers. It basically comes down to a few things....if you want stick get the beamer, if you want a the faster car and plan on flying around corners, get the beamer. If you dont wanna see a BMW convertible 323 325 330 M3, get the lexus.....oh and the biggest factor is the retractable hardtop.

ORIOLE

I don't know a lot about cars other than what I like to see and drive. What I do know is what looks good and is fun to drive. I have nothing bad to say about other makes/models. To each his own. If you like a Hyundai, BMW or a Lexus, Great!
I can just say that if I had a nickel for every person that said something to me about my car (SC 430) as I am driving around town, I would be much better off.
Do I care about a few seconds from 0-60? No! Do I care if I can corner a turn at X number miles an hour? No! What I care about is what I like to drive and that the car has some get up and go. I like to drive this car. It is an experience.
Example: I was at a stop light today sitting next to a Porsche 911 (very nice looking I might add) and a 2 trucks loaded with Christmas decorations and entertainers (band) onboard with about 18 people doing that Aloha Christmas thing. I was almost embarassed at the attention I was given. The guy in the Porsche had a nice car but everyone is focused on the SC. I ain't used to this type of attention. I guess I need to get used to it.
Bottom line: Like what you drive and drive what you like.
I