Was the SC430 meant for more; can it achieve more?
08-22-07, 03:53 PM
#31
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Eric
08-24-07, 02:04 AM
#33
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Simple... Weight.
I am surprised no one touched on this. To me the answer is simple. True sports cars are light. Anyone who thinks otherwise is kidding themselves or does not know a thing about racing. Its a weight issue, no comfort, no power 10 way seats, no heavy retractable hard top with motors and gears. (note miata one is VERY light and designed that way, and purists still stick to the canvas top, thats why miata kept the canvas top as an option)
To put it simply most tuners want the most bang for your buck, and starting off with a heavy ride is a uphill battle. Esp when you can get a new EVO or STi for the price of a USED SC that can whoop it in both the straight and corners. Not to mention the price of either JDM or custom parts needed for the SC430 just do not make it a "tuner" car of choice. Unless your rollin in the dough and want to make "a" SC430 go fast at what ever cost the car wont be a tuner favorite. Look at those who mod the SC400 they strip it down put a cage in it and do a motor swap or twin turbo if they can afford it.
What you are missing is that the SC430 was designed as a luxury "tourer" that was "sporty". Sure its about the same weight as the last Gen supra + 200 pounds but it wasn't designed to be a powerhouse sports car for the track be it cornering or drag. Keep in mind the supra came with Twin Turbos as a option to make up for the weight since it was designed as a sports car, but even at that it had trouble in the twisties due to weight. No such Twin Turbo option on the SC430 because thats not what it was designed as.
As much as I LOVE the SC430 I must realize that its not a sports car but a sporty touring car. Once you start trying to make "more" of a sports car you have to spend more and more and get so little bang for your buck. Enjoy your LEXUS and if you want to go fast or be sporty pick up a sport bike or a used MR-S or Miata because after you spend your 12K to make you SC430 into even a beginner "tuner sports car" you could otherwise have one hell of a sports car with all that same money invested in a used light "designed as" sports car.
Just my .02
To put it simply most tuners want the most bang for your buck, and starting off with a heavy ride is a uphill battle. Esp when you can get a new EVO or STi for the price of a USED SC that can whoop it in both the straight and corners. Not to mention the price of either JDM or custom parts needed for the SC430 just do not make it a "tuner" car of choice. Unless your rollin in the dough and want to make "a" SC430 go fast at what ever cost the car wont be a tuner favorite. Look at those who mod the SC400 they strip it down put a cage in it and do a motor swap or twin turbo if they can afford it.
What you are missing is that the SC430 was designed as a luxury "tourer" that was "sporty". Sure its about the same weight as the last Gen supra + 200 pounds but it wasn't designed to be a powerhouse sports car for the track be it cornering or drag. Keep in mind the supra came with Twin Turbos as a option to make up for the weight since it was designed as a sports car, but even at that it had trouble in the twisties due to weight. No such Twin Turbo option on the SC430 because thats not what it was designed as.
As much as I LOVE the SC430 I must realize that its not a sports car but a sporty touring car. Once you start trying to make "more" of a sports car you have to spend more and more and get so little bang for your buck. Enjoy your LEXUS and if you want to go fast or be sporty pick up a sport bike or a used MR-S or Miata because after you spend your 12K to make you SC430 into even a beginner "tuner sports car" you could otherwise have one hell of a sports car with all that same money invested in a used light "designed as" sports car.
Just my .02
08-24-07, 09:04 PM
#35
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JPI
True I too would take a SC430 with 700HP anyday if it wasnt my money I was spending. But the cost I would have to spend to get a reliable 700HP SC430 just to make it into a "sports car" is just not the best bang for the buck.
Like I said the SC430 was not designed as a Sports car, but more of a luxury touring car that was sporty. To dump a whole bunch of money into this fine luxury touring car just to turn it into a "sports car" to me is not worth the money to performance gain. Unless like I said you are just ballin and want to do it.
Why spend 2 to 3 times as much on the SC430 with your OWN hard earned money just to make it into a "Tuner sports car" when you could get MUCH better results on a decent car built from the ground up to be a sports car? The SC400 guys have that same problem now. Kids buy used 180sxs and spend 1/2 the money and out drift and corner them. So only the true "ballers" who can afford it tune the SC400.(even though they are getting pretty cheap now days) Just to fix the dash lights that blow out in the SC400 is cost prohibitive to "the tuner crowd". Why spend all that cash when you can get a new or newer ride designed from the start as a true sports car. At least then when you mod it it would probally be 1) Cheaper to mod and 2) More performance for your mods (car starts off lighter, more power, better chassis etc. from the factory)
The bottom line for me is I wouldnt mind if the SC430 was more of a "Sporty" car, but I also realize it wasnt designed as such and dont want to spend 2 to 3 times my buck for 1/3 or less of the bang I can get out of a light weight true sports car out of the box. You dont buy a SC430 to be a tuner or sporty you are buying a sporty looking LEXUS, not a Lexus's SPORTS CAR.
just my .02
True I too would take a SC430 with 700HP anyday if it wasnt my money I was spending. But the cost I would have to spend to get a reliable 700HP SC430 just to make it into a "sports car" is just not the best bang for the buck.
Like I said the SC430 was not designed as a Sports car, but more of a luxury touring car that was sporty. To dump a whole bunch of money into this fine luxury touring car just to turn it into a "sports car" to me is not worth the money to performance gain. Unless like I said you are just ballin and want to do it.
Why spend 2 to 3 times as much on the SC430 with your OWN hard earned money just to make it into a "Tuner sports car" when you could get MUCH better results on a decent car built from the ground up to be a sports car? The SC400 guys have that same problem now. Kids buy used 180sxs and spend 1/2 the money and out drift and corner them. So only the true "ballers" who can afford it tune the SC400.(even though they are getting pretty cheap now days) Just to fix the dash lights that blow out in the SC400 is cost prohibitive to "the tuner crowd". Why spend all that cash when you can get a new or newer ride designed from the start as a true sports car. At least then when you mod it it would probally be 1) Cheaper to mod and 2) More performance for your mods (car starts off lighter, more power, better chassis etc. from the factory)
The bottom line for me is I wouldnt mind if the SC430 was more of a "Sporty" car, but I also realize it wasnt designed as such and dont want to spend 2 to 3 times my buck for 1/3 or less of the bang I can get out of a light weight true sports car out of the box. You dont buy a SC430 to be a tuner or sporty you are buying a sporty looking LEXUS, not a Lexus's SPORTS CAR.
just my .02
08-29-07, 08:38 PM
#36
Lexus Champion
This is a 1uz with 8 psi of boost. Take a look at the dyno. There are room to grow on the SC430.
This is with stock compression and stock internals. Would you like to picture a build block,stroker kit and a better s/c(rotrex).
JPI
This is with stock compression and stock internals. Would you like to picture a build block,stroker kit and a better s/c(rotrex).
JPI
08-29-07, 11:32 PM
#37
Lexus Champion
I disagree with an earlier comment that the SC430 is too high a price compared to the Supra. The Supra Turbo started at $44k and looking at some inflation numbers from at least one site that would take it to just over $62k for today's value which is roughly equivalent to the SC430.
I think the cramped engine bay of the SC430 is a hindrance. The Supra had much more room to work with.
By the way, what year did the Supra engine mods go mainstream? While some did it since the Supra Turbo already had alot of good turbo hardware stock, I think it did take a while for the masses to start modding them.
I am mixed on the mods for the SC430. While I would like the power I just don't want my SC430 to be a police magnet if people start doing ghetto mods like carbon fiber panels that aren't made to look like the stock color or people just start driving them like Civic drivers.
I think the cramped engine bay of the SC430 is a hindrance. The Supra had much more room to work with.
By the way, what year did the Supra engine mods go mainstream? While some did it since the Supra Turbo already had alot of good turbo hardware stock, I think it did take a while for the masses to start modding them.
I am mixed on the mods for the SC430. While I would like the power I just don't want my SC430 to be a police magnet if people start doing ghetto mods like carbon fiber panels that aren't made to look like the stock color or people just start driving them like Civic drivers.
Last edited by Hermosa; 08-29-07 at 11:36 PM.
08-31-07, 03:07 PM
#38
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Thread Starter
I disagree with an earlier comment that the SC430 is too high a price compared to the Supra. The Supra Turbo started at $44k and looking at some inflation numbers from at least one site that would take it to just over $62k for today's value which is roughly equivalent to the SC430.
I think the cramped engine bay of the SC430 is a hindrance. The Supra had much more room to work with.
By the way, what year did the Supra engine mods go mainstream? While some did it since the Supra Turbo already had alot of good turbo hardware stock, I think it did take a while for the masses to start modding them.
I am mixed on the mods for the SC430. While I would like the power I just don't want my SC430 to be a police magnet if people start doing ghetto mods like carbon fiber panels that aren't made to look like the stock color or people just start driving them like Civic drivers.
I think the cramped engine bay of the SC430 is a hindrance. The Supra had much more room to work with.
By the way, what year did the Supra engine mods go mainstream? While some did it since the Supra Turbo already had alot of good turbo hardware stock, I think it did take a while for the masses to start modding them.
I am mixed on the mods for the SC430. While I would like the power I just don't want my SC430 to be a police magnet if people start doing ghetto mods like carbon fiber panels that aren't made to look like the stock color or people just start driving them like Civic drivers.
Fwiw, I can't see ghetto mods infecting the SC430 community. It's too "high end" for that.
Eric
08-31-07, 04:22 PM
#39
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Posts: n/a
I always looked at the SC430 taking the place of the MKIV Supra once the Supra was legislated out back in '98. It's certainly got the style, and tons of power potential. Up to date though, that hasn't been the case even with the introduction of affordable performance options. I guess I'm scratching my head as to why the SC430 hasn't become tuners choice.
Eric
Eric
1. Supra is a TT out the box vs a V-8 with minimal F/I support
2. 2 totally different demographics. The Supra was to be the ultimate performance car from the brand. the SC 430 is the ultimate Q coupe from the brand. Lexus always wanted the SC (including 1st gen) to be a drop top.
3. Look at the interiors. The Supra is aimed at the driver with black plastic all over. The SC 430 has one of the most beautiful and luxurious interiors you can find.
4. Look at the stock suspension differences.
5. Image. Tuners are not attracted to the SC 430, its a gentleman's car. The Supra is a bad boy of a car.
Even as the SC 430 has dropped in price, it simply is not a car that will attract tuners. That said the cars some of you guys own are simply fantastic examples of the potential of the SC 430.
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