Buying 2003 SC 430 - Good Deal?
10-27-09, 10:01 PM
#31
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scdroptop, called them and offered $15K for the same reasons you provided me, they declined. I guess $15K is a bit low? But $16K would be the most I'd pay for this vehicle since they could not provide me any records (I asked them) outside of Lexus' in the past 4 years. All they said was it's in great condition, yeah, even a 3 year-old kid knows how to say that...I need something concrete here.
I am a freakishly picky car buyer, which takes lots of work, but one thing I learned is $2-$3,000 is worth paying for a nicer version of any car because you sit in the thing everyday (well probably) and it offers no regrets. Auction wholesalers price their cars based on condition, if it seems like a really good deal, there will be non-mechanical issues with wear and tear.
Only private party sellers offer the hidden gems, because they are stuck trying to sell to Carmax and you can offer more than that.
My last black car was a used GS400, I looked at 18 black ones before I found a used one owner that had NO swirl marks at all, that is the main problem with used black cars, swirl marks, especially on off lease ones are crazy.
This particular Plano car is a good deal if you want a toy, but if it is your everyday driver, treat yourself to a better conditioned one for a little more money.
10-30-09, 12:04 PM
#32
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Thanks LexusinTex, I guess it 's not worth it for me to pursue it then. Especially they are firm with their $17K asking.
Few questions for everyone:
1. When you bought the SC, did you order an independent inspection? IF so, was it worth it? Cost around $100-$200 when I last checked, is that accurate?
2. Is it a red flag when a vehicle was sold at a dealer auction? According to LexusinTex, seems like Lexus didn't want to sell those cars in their used lots in afraid of tarnishing their image, that's why those vehicles ended up in the dealer auction.
3. In the current market, how accurate is KBB? Do any of you bought a vehicle recently below KBB value? If so, how much?
Thanks guys for a lot of helpful info here.
Few questions for everyone:
1. When you bought the SC, did you order an independent inspection? IF so, was it worth it? Cost around $100-$200 when I last checked, is that accurate?
2. Is it a red flag when a vehicle was sold at a dealer auction? According to LexusinTex, seems like Lexus didn't want to sell those cars in their used lots in afraid of tarnishing their image, that's why those vehicles ended up in the dealer auction.
3. In the current market, how accurate is KBB? Do any of you bought a vehicle recently below KBB value? If so, how much?
Thanks guys for a lot of helpful info here.
10-30-09, 02:02 PM
#33
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Would be interesting if someone knew (not guessed) how the lease return process works with Lexus. IE - with Mercedes when you return your lease it actually goes back to MBUSA and they offer it up at a lease auction. The dealer has to bid on it just like everyone else -- whereas BMW is different in that the dealer has first right of refusal on the vehicle. If they refuse (due to difference in residual and market) they let it go to the lease auction and will try to pick it up there for less. I quickly gave up on a SC430 so did not get the details but during my current search have heard the Mercedes and BMW story backed up by several sources.
10-31-09, 06:51 PM
#34
On the Minnesota car, I agree midwest cars are not as preferrable as sun belt cars. I bought an LS430 though with a Michigan title. The guy drove to his home in Palm Springs every winter so more than half the 55 k was straight highway miles and when I called him after I bought it he said it had never seen snow or salt. I benefitted from having all the Lexus maintanence in the glove box when I looked at the car also and half the service was from a dealer in Palm Desert, CA.
Is there any way to call the previous owner and check on various specifics you have in question? Then offer em 16 and keep looking.
Is there any way to call the previous owner and check on various specifics you have in question? Then offer em 16 and keep looking.
10-31-09, 07:13 PM
#35
Thanks LexusinTex, I guess it 's not worth it for me to pursue it then. Especially they are firm with their $17K asking.
Few questions for everyone:
1. When you bought the SC, did you order an independent inspection? IF so, was it worth it? Cost around $100-$200 when I last checked, is that accurate?
Yes, it's accurate...closer to $120-$150 around here. Don't expect them to find gold though...
2. Is it a red flag when a vehicle was sold at a dealer auction? According to LexusinTex, seems like Lexus didn't want to sell those cars in their used lots in afraid of tarnishing their image, that's why those vehicles ended up in the dealer auction.
Not necessarily. Bid low though. There is a reason why a dealer passed on that car. If it was pristine it would be at a Lexus dealer. Ideally you should get a wholesale car 25%-30% less than lexus dealer car. By an extended warranty or set aside some money to replace ML speakers, motor mounts, cd changer or navigation door.
3. In the current market, how accurate is KBB? Do any of you bought a vehicle recently below KBB value? If so, how much?
I never have found validity in KBB. When you are trading in, the dealer is MUCH lower than that. When you are selling as an individual, it is too low. When you are buying from an individual, the price is too high. I think the best comparison is a META-ANALYSIS of market value, what dealers are paying for trades and ebay, cars.com, autotrader asking prices. I even look at (you have to log in to see this) what cars finish the auction at on eBay.
Thanks guys for a lot of helpful info here.
Few questions for everyone:
1. When you bought the SC, did you order an independent inspection? IF so, was it worth it? Cost around $100-$200 when I last checked, is that accurate?
Yes, it's accurate...closer to $120-$150 around here. Don't expect them to find gold though...
2. Is it a red flag when a vehicle was sold at a dealer auction? According to LexusinTex, seems like Lexus didn't want to sell those cars in their used lots in afraid of tarnishing their image, that's why those vehicles ended up in the dealer auction.
Not necessarily. Bid low though. There is a reason why a dealer passed on that car. If it was pristine it would be at a Lexus dealer. Ideally you should get a wholesale car 25%-30% less than lexus dealer car. By an extended warranty or set aside some money to replace ML speakers, motor mounts, cd changer or navigation door.
3. In the current market, how accurate is KBB? Do any of you bought a vehicle recently below KBB value? If so, how much?
I never have found validity in KBB. When you are trading in, the dealer is MUCH lower than that. When you are selling as an individual, it is too low. When you are buying from an individual, the price is too high. I think the best comparison is a META-ANALYSIS of market value, what dealers are paying for trades and ebay, cars.com, autotrader asking prices. I even look at (you have to log in to see this) what cars finish the auction at on eBay.
Thanks guys for a lot of helpful info here.
10-31-09, 10:56 PM
#36
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Do any of you know how much is the extended warranty for 2002/2003 SC? Around $1.-1.5K would be fair? Is that to 100,000 miles or 3-year?
When 2003 SC hits around 60-70K, what usually needed to replace most often? According to scdroptop, sounds like ML speakers, motor mounts, cd changer or navigation door tend to be the problem?
When 2003 SC hits around 60-70K, what usually needed to replace most often? According to scdroptop, sounds like ML speakers, motor mounts, cd changer or navigation door tend to be the problem?
11-01-09, 07:12 AM
#37
Do any of you know how much is the extended warranty for 2002/2003 SC? Around $1.-1.5K would be fair? Is that to 100,000 miles or 3-year?
When 2003 SC hits around 60-70K, what usually needed to replace most often? According to scdroptop, sounds like ML speakers, motor mounts, cd changer or navigation door tend to be the problem?
When 2003 SC hits around 60-70K, what usually needed to replace most often? According to scdroptop, sounds like ML speakers, motor mounts, cd changer or navigation door tend to be the problem?
11-01-09, 07:37 AM
#38
I had a long sit down with my Lexus dealer, who has moved quite a few of these, Florida is the sunshine state. He had never had a car come in for motor mounts, or the NAV door. Most complaints were trim. My car now seven years old has had one repair, passenger side mirror motor. If something seriously goes wrong with a third party insurer, they will probably not pay. I had a warranty Gold contract, which was considered to be one of the best on an Expedition. When a $1500 repair bill came in, they said it was due to my use, and then they went belly up later that year after 10 years in the buis. If a warranty is important get a CPO. If you get an 03 and expect to drive it for a while (I am hoping to go 10 years) get friendly with a good honest mechanic. I am estimating that I will have to put 1000K a year on average into this car, at least. Guessing you paid around what I did, 23K or less, your cost of ownership is still reasonably low.
Our LS is a CPO, and after replacing the rear sun shade and a defective proximity key, insurance has paid out $1300. If it was out of pocket, I would not have made either repair. Think about self insuring. If you can't do it on what is considered to be the most reliable car made, than you should never go to Vegas.
Our LS is a CPO, and after replacing the rear sun shade and a defective proximity key, insurance has paid out $1300. If it was out of pocket, I would not have made either repair. Think about self insuring. If you can't do it on what is considered to be the most reliable car made, than you should never go to Vegas.
11-01-09, 08:02 AM
#39
I'm with SCDROPTOP in his analysis of KBB prices. Here's what I do. First I get a compilation of values from Edmunds, NADA, and KBB. Then I watch Ebay auctions for a minimum of thirty days regarding the car I'm interested in, noting the winning bids. Usually the winning bidder has purchased the car for thousands less than the three used car books' suggest. I always demand the service history and a Carfax. I want the service to have performed at a Lexus dealer.When buying on Ebay I demand 36 pics, I have my own schematic on what I want to see in those pics. I should also tell you that no reserve auctions are my favorite ! I then phone the owner/dealer and he does a walk around with me with his cell phone. I ask the questions, he provides the answers. If I get a sense there is any BS or hesitation , I tell the seller to have a nice day. There's too many creampuffs out there to waste my time with any shady seller. Oh by the way, if a seller doesn't have 99% or above feedback I look elsewhere. Feedback says so much about a seller. Good luck with your search.
11-01-09, 08:06 AM
#40
Of course dealers are going to say they "never" see stuff like that come in...lol
They also tried to tell me that the ML speakers rarely malfunction and they had to replace five of them on my 2002. They've also told me that wind noise is going to occur in all convertibles, including the SC--when others have none and many have this annoying problem. I've driven SC's at the same dealer that have it and don't.
It's all relevant.
lexus!!!-Your best bet is to find the best conditioned, newest year SC in the colors you want for the best price and do some researching on third party warranty companies. My friend just bought a 2004 Range Rover and exhausted our research to find him a good warranty from a 3rd party and the best we could do was $3700 for 3 years or 75k miles (he has 50 on it now) and he decided to "self insure" by putting the money he was going to spend on the warranty in a money market and some other smaller liquid investments in order to prepare for a "rainy day". RR's can be very expensive to repair-and he knew this going into it. He got a $75k SUV that's five years old for $19k and it's in perfect condition and looks great, drives great and he couldn't be happier!
Some of us have happily repaired stuff on our cars because we love them so much and understand it's the nature of the beast. KaiserSeal summed it up well--if you have the CPO you take it in for everything and hope to get the bang for your buck. If you didn't have a warranty, would you REALLY care about the rear shade or the motor mounts if perhaps the dealer was just "motor mount replacement happy"? Would you replace the ML speakers with JL Audio or Boston Acoustic and call it a day?
At the end of the day, it's up to you. Several of the cars you have presented looked like great deals. The Plano one to me is a slam dunk for $17k or whatever the final price was. You are getting a $65k six year old car that is impeccable that you may have to do some fluids and filters on to get it up to speed in the color you want that is a southern car. Who knows...you could buy that car and never have a problem. I bought a 1991 300Z Twin Turbo in 1999 with 100k miles on it and had ZERO problems and drove the hell out of it, added a chip and boost jets and drove it like I stole it. You are doing the right thing by researching them thoroughly. Just be patient and when you decide on one, just know that you did your due diligence and pray/hope that it will be ok. After all, we are not in control---the cars are!
Some folks on here have claimed they have had NO issues with their SC's, which is just amazing to me. With my 02 a few years back I had posted about all the ML speaker problems I had and the motor mounts and got mixed reviews. You saw the consumer reports and JD Powers reports. Maybe I have been the unlucky one...or maybe it's because I don't drive my cars very much? Who knows. Perhaps if I didn't have the warranties I've had, I wouldn't have had any issues either?
They also tried to tell me that the ML speakers rarely malfunction and they had to replace five of them on my 2002. They've also told me that wind noise is going to occur in all convertibles, including the SC--when others have none and many have this annoying problem. I've driven SC's at the same dealer that have it and don't.
It's all relevant.
lexus!!!-Your best bet is to find the best conditioned, newest year SC in the colors you want for the best price and do some researching on third party warranty companies. My friend just bought a 2004 Range Rover and exhausted our research to find him a good warranty from a 3rd party and the best we could do was $3700 for 3 years or 75k miles (he has 50 on it now) and he decided to "self insure" by putting the money he was going to spend on the warranty in a money market and some other smaller liquid investments in order to prepare for a "rainy day". RR's can be very expensive to repair-and he knew this going into it. He got a $75k SUV that's five years old for $19k and it's in perfect condition and looks great, drives great and he couldn't be happier!
Some of us have happily repaired stuff on our cars because we love them so much and understand it's the nature of the beast. KaiserSeal summed it up well--if you have the CPO you take it in for everything and hope to get the bang for your buck. If you didn't have a warranty, would you REALLY care about the rear shade or the motor mounts if perhaps the dealer was just "motor mount replacement happy"? Would you replace the ML speakers with JL Audio or Boston Acoustic and call it a day?
At the end of the day, it's up to you. Several of the cars you have presented looked like great deals. The Plano one to me is a slam dunk for $17k or whatever the final price was. You are getting a $65k six year old car that is impeccable that you may have to do some fluids and filters on to get it up to speed in the color you want that is a southern car. Who knows...you could buy that car and never have a problem. I bought a 1991 300Z Twin Turbo in 1999 with 100k miles on it and had ZERO problems and drove the hell out of it, added a chip and boost jets and drove it like I stole it. You are doing the right thing by researching them thoroughly. Just be patient and when you decide on one, just know that you did your due diligence and pray/hope that it will be ok. After all, we are not in control---the cars are!
Some folks on here have claimed they have had NO issues with their SC's, which is just amazing to me. With my 02 a few years back I had posted about all the ML speaker problems I had and the motor mounts and got mixed reviews. You saw the consumer reports and JD Powers reports. Maybe I have been the unlucky one...or maybe it's because I don't drive my cars very much? Who knows. Perhaps if I didn't have the warranties I've had, I wouldn't have had any issues either?
11-01-09, 08:21 AM
#41
Luck with credit unions
I feel very fortunate in my dealings on my 02 sc that I bought 1 1/2 yrs ago. It was advertised on autotrader.com at an exotics dealer. It was $27K with 23K miles on it. The dealer was about a 45 minute drive from my home, so I knew nothing about the dealer. I noticed signs in his office that they allow you to check out their cars, so you can take it to a mechanic. I took it to the nearest lexus dealer and paid $200 for a 2 hour inspection. They also showed me that the sc was serviced regularly at the lexus dealer and that the milage was legitimate. The only problem that they could find was the trunk struts needed to be replaced. They went so far as to recommend its purchase, Knowing it wouldn't be serviced there being quite the distance from my home. The dealer dropped his price to $26K so I could fix the struts.
The second issue worked out just as well. I had to take a $10k note to buy the car from my local teachers credit union. When I went in to sign the papers there they asked if the car had a warranty-when I said no, they offered me a 3rd party policy. I then checked with my insurance man, who then checked and said they were rated very well. He was shocked that they offered 7 years/75K miles with zero deductable for $1230. That was 1 1/2 years ago-so far they replaced the ML system when it quit ejecting cds and a blown speaker and the tranny pan gasket to the tune of $2200. Incidently, I paid off the credit union 2 weeks after buying the sc. That part was important because at the time you could not buy the warranty unless you financed with them. They have since dropped that requirement.
In conclusion, I have a 8 year old sc that will be under warranty until 2015 with zero deductable and so far I love the 3rd party warranty and my lexus dealer has had no authorization or payment problems. Sometimes you have to be resourceful and then there is downright luck with being in the right place at the right time. Moral of the lesson-If you have access to a credit union-check them out. Now I have a dependable SC with the peace of mind that just in case.....I am covered until 2015!!
John
The second issue worked out just as well. I had to take a $10k note to buy the car from my local teachers credit union. When I went in to sign the papers there they asked if the car had a warranty-when I said no, they offered me a 3rd party policy. I then checked with my insurance man, who then checked and said they were rated very well. He was shocked that they offered 7 years/75K miles with zero deductable for $1230. That was 1 1/2 years ago-so far they replaced the ML system when it quit ejecting cds and a blown speaker and the tranny pan gasket to the tune of $2200. Incidently, I paid off the credit union 2 weeks after buying the sc. That part was important because at the time you could not buy the warranty unless you financed with them. They have since dropped that requirement.
In conclusion, I have a 8 year old sc that will be under warranty until 2015 with zero deductable and so far I love the 3rd party warranty and my lexus dealer has had no authorization or payment problems. Sometimes you have to be resourceful and then there is downright luck with being in the right place at the right time. Moral of the lesson-If you have access to a credit union-check them out. Now I have a dependable SC with the peace of mind that just in case.....I am covered until 2015!!
John
11-01-09, 12:06 PM
#42
^^^ +1 Great write up Solman! Someone recently posted a govt/military site that is offering 3.9% financing up to 72 months on any year car...much better than any CU or bank deal I have found. Bank of America was the best deal I found at 4.59 up to 72 months but with restrictions.
Anyone that has great experiences with 3rd party warranty companies should share names and tips...that sounds like an outstanding value, Solman!!! One of the best I've heard of. I thought my $1850 3 year/75 Lexus ESP Platinum Warranty was good...MAN!
Surely there are some other great ones out there?
Anyone that has great experiences with 3rd party warranty companies should share names and tips...that sounds like an outstanding value, Solman!!! One of the best I've heard of. I thought my $1850 3 year/75 Lexus ESP Platinum Warranty was good...MAN!
Surely there are some other great ones out there?
11-01-09, 12:17 PM
#43
Loved reading the post on your buying experience Solman. Hell of a deal all around, can't believe how fortunate you were to find that warranty value and loan apr!! Great job !
11-01-09, 01:07 PM
#44
That bank is pentagon federal credit union, I used them to finance my SC, 7 years old, and got the 3.9 rate. I think you have to be former military, a fed, or get a referral from one. I am both former military, and currently a fed, if someone needs the referral PM me.
11-01-09, 03:41 PM
#45
Lead Lap
Can a non-member with a referral buy just the warranty?