GabrielleG

Of course brakes can go out in any make and model, however, when it is a common problem amongst a certain make and model within specific years, they should be recalled.
I have a 2002 Lexus SC430 with 176K miles. This is my “Forever” car so I keep up with the maintenance, regular oil changes, only use premium gas, etc. I had the frightening experience of complete brake failure last night. Thank God, a was not on the freeway!
My beautiful car is in the service department now at a nearby dealership. I am awaiting a phone call in the morning to let me know exactly how much it will be to repair the problem. I know it will be somewhere in the neighborhood of $2K.

JTho

Glad you ae alive to tell the tale, GabrielleG! That sounds absolutely terrifying. Let us know how it goes, and again, glad you are still here!!

Seattle SCone

GabrielleG, what did the brake pedal feel like during the failure. Did it drop all the way to the floor and not come up or was there brake pedal resistance present, but no brake effect?

GmanSC

We just had this incident recently, now another one. What’s going on? Lexus definitely should get involve with the investigation of this failure.

jonas's RX

Seems to be affecting any SC with 100K + or more .
im thinking the ABS pump loses pressure at the higher
mileage and once it does , all brakes system fail

Seattle SCone

At over 226,000 miles, I have an interest in this. Thus far, nothing unusual other than the brakes feeling better than ever post redoing all my rotors, pads and flushing the brake fluid. ABS reserve pump sounds normal upon putting key in on position (without starting engine). Before the brake fluid flush, pedal was getting some softness, though never wooden.

I still can't get my head around a total failure unless the master cylinder also loses all fluid. That should drop the pedal to floor. Waiting to read what the pedal was like in this latest event. Was it a drop to the floor (no brake fluid pressure) or loss of effect (reduced brake power assist)? Makes a huge difference in figuring how the failure is happening.

The scariest incident I had (in another car) was due to wearing shoes with wider soles than usual. Unnoticed, the right edge of its sole pushed down on the accelerator as the main portion of my foot depressed the brake pedal. The harder I pushed down on the brake to stop, the more engine power pushed my car forward into the intersection. Brakes can barely hold back an angry revving V12. It was loud and I was reaching to cut the ignition when I realized what was happening. Not exactly, like a total brake failure, but was a nice example of something going awry and how difficult it is to accurately react quickly. I got rid of those shoes BTW.

degmla

iTrader: (1)

Collectively, I feel as if this thread has a tad too much conjecture? Let's be careful, guys. I tend to resist unfounded Lexus bashing, so I know this post already appears harsh to some. Sorry that I don't know how to do it softer.

As a long time Lexus/Toyota owner, and I do 90% of the maintenance/repairs on them, I have probably replaced 3 master cylinder assemblies. Eventually, the electric motor squeals and/or quits working. Yes, lots of ugly colored lights come on. You replace the part. It's not cheap. But then you can expect another 15-20 years and 150+k miles. If you are driving a ~15 year old car and expect no scary failures ever, I think you might need to lower your expectations some? Lexus builds awesome, reliable vehicles...but they are still just machines that wear out and are eventually scrapped.

And, as others have said, 100% brake failure is extremely rare, and I do not yet see any examples in this thread. Even if there is potentially 1, okay, then let's start counting? 2? Eyes on you GabrielleG -- please clarify "complete brake failure" when you get a sec. I'm speculating you still had a hard brake?

Contrast, 100% ABS failure is NOT rare (nor is it a brake failure). Lest we forget, the SC has ABS (anti-lock brakes) and VSC (vehicle skid control) -- two systems which require an ECU to be able to manipulate the brake system without your input. That enhanced system is what could fail (after several years and/or several miles). You'll still have brakes, even though they'll be extremely hard and won't stop you very quickly at all.

If you want to be scared, go see my video of gasoline leaking at the back of my hot engine Monday evening due to a failed fuel pulsation damper!!

Harold57

Welcome to the forum Gabrielle. Let us know what you find out. Also, please provide further details around the failure.

GmanSC

Since I’ve been here at this forum, there were three incidents of total brake failure to the SC.
First, happened to MJN331 on 07/12/2018, then happened to DBryan on 12/31/2020 and now happened to GarbrrilleG, yesterday. Prior to 2015, it happened to Omala on 07/15/2011.
The real danger is it’s happened with no or very little warning. That’s scary.

jonas's RX

HI GMAN

I have owned 4 SC430 in the past 8 years and I have not had any of my SC430 with total brake failure. But then again, all. my SCs has between 30-75K
I seemed to remember all the SC that had brake failure had over 100K-150K+ but that is still pretty scary to have complete brake failure.

I recall the ABS pump was also an area of concern with the Forerunner and THE OLDER GS350.They all use the same ABS pump and also
all fail at similar higher miles

Seattle SCone

Look here regarding brake boost pump failures on Toyota/Lexus. Lots of details, but no mention of total brake failure.

http://www.diy-time.com/automotive/t...ta-lexus-cars/

GmanSC

Even though only few incidents in thousands of SC produced, one is too many in my opinion. At least, the car should have adequate warning system to alert driver of brake failure.

Bgw70

They said it is a failure of the seals in high mileage cars...
what makes a seal prematurely fail?

degmla

iTrader: (1)

One is too many? Again, this seems like an extreme expectation to have? What other machines in your life do you have that sort of expectation on? And consider this: EVERY SINGLE LEXUS ON THE PLANET WILL EVENTUALLY HAVE A COMPLETE BRAKE FAILURE if driven long enough. How many miles are enough? How many years are enough?

And, again, what brake warning system didn't warn? I have a red BRAKE light on my cluster. When it comes on, I know something is wrong. My brake failures had this happen. Are some having COMPLETE brake failures with NO warning? Seems to be what you have implied? I've yet to see that. The SC brake system is not unique. Essentially every Lexus/Toyota had the same design.

Lexus quit making SCs several years ago (2010ish?). Most are going to be 2007 or older. In my opinion, any type of failure on a car that old with that many miles is fair game. Not worthy of a recall. Not worthy of Lexus investigating.

I agree with all: it's scary. And severe consequences could occur. If that inherent risk is not already acknowledged and understood, then I would encourage one to get a newer car to have a more reliable, less worrisome experience.

degmla

iTrader: (1)

This is how the article reads on my screen:

The cause of this issue

Thus, improper sealing, not a prematurely failing seal. The premature failure will be the electric brake motor, because it runs too often, and eventually fails sooner than expected.

I'd be curious where the fluid leaks? I don't know if it is just an internal bypass, thus maintaining total volume, or if fluid was actually added over time (which indicates a problem). Ideally, you should never have to add brake fluid. If it gets low, then your brake pads are probably thin. Replace brake pads and your fluid should be back to normal.