kobebeef

Hmmm... I've known very very few people not happy with a Lexus of any model (except maybe the ES). I believe that's because most of the people who go buy a Lexus know what they are in for. I always believed that the Lexus meant Luxury and Reliability more so than performance and handling (although the Lexus does not compare to BMW and Porsche - both known more so for performance and handling). Never having the biggest and most powerful engines, Lexus usually provides a better than normal engine in terms of power but it also is a superb engine over others in terms or reliability.

I never buy brand new anymore because of the depreciation hit a brand new car takes (My Range Rover is the worst!) right when you leave the dealership. Back when the economy was stil alright, I've bought a brand new E-Class, C-Class, Range Rover, 3-Series and the selling price finally made me realize a 2nd hand car is much more practical. For my first Lexus, I bought it from a friend and have enjoyed it tremendously. The SC430 is my next goal. I've always been a sucker for luxury interior, hence my love for Lexus.

ceboyd

yes, this expience has taught me to be patient in the future and wait for a proper test drive of a used car instead of brand new... ..and yes, I bought my Boxster S very slight used with only 3k miles and saved over $11K that way ..in the end, the trade was neutral... I don't owe anything now

I knew the Lexus was more emphasis on lux than performance/handling... I guess I just outgrew it very quickly and craved that performance and handling again.. LOL Don't get me wrong, the Lexus SC430 is a wonderful car for what it is... ..it just wasn't for me any more... and like I said, If I had unlimited funds, I would still have it for those days I'd want a relaxing easy-going ride instead of performance minded

mmarshall

I symphathise with you having to pay more than 60K for an SC430 and taking a big depreciation hit, but part of that is a Lexus marketing problem in that the company simply refuses to produce a new SC300 that would sell probably in the 40's, or maybe 50K at most. While the previous SC400 was redesigned a couple of years ago as the drop metal-top SC430, the SC300 unfortunately was not replaced...it was simply dropped....a BIG mistake.
In fact, the company should probably have left the previous cars alone, period.....they were some of the most beautiful cars on the road. The new SC's are just trick-top Audi TT's, albeit with a nice interior.

Leslie Cra

This is in reply to mmarshall's comment about the SC430 being nothing more than a tricked-up Audi TT (albeit with a nicer interior/sound system). I don't mean to presume their experience with either automobiles, but to me it's like comparing a tiger with a cheetah - they're both lethal cats, but that's where the comparison ends. The Lexus SC430 is a high-performance engined luxury car that is also a sports coupe. It is not a track or race car and it is not advertised or promoted by Lexus as such. The SC430 is designed for individuals who are not concerned about driving the fastest car on the road. The SC430 makes a statement, without being disingenuous regarding it's true intentions - to be comfortable, luxurious, and fast enough while performing either as a coupe or a convertable.

With all that said about the SC430, let me also say that I very much like the Audi TT. Actually, I think the TT convertable is the more attractive version of that car. Before I turned to Lexus as my automoble of choice (before my `02 SC430, I owned a `94 SC400 and a `99 GS300), I had owned 4 Audis - an `84 5000S, an `86 5000 Turbo, a `90 200, and a `92 100CS - and none of them left me with any regrets. In my opinion, Audi leads the automotive industry in technology and innovation. The company's quattro-equiped automobiles generally are leaders in their respective classes. The TT is no exception to this leadership status, but I would not consider the TT in the same class as the SC430. The fact that the SC430 and the TT are 2+2 coupes is not the basis for a comparison - it would not be fair in any respect. Audi's intention for the TT is for it to be a performer, to be competitive with the Toyota MR2, the Honda 2002, the Nissan Z, and automobiles of that class. The TT is well balanced, not too heavy, should be driven hard, and handles like it's on rails. The SC430 is heavy, has good balance, can be driven hard (if need be), but reaches its peak of enjoyment at slightly better than highway speed when driven with the top down.

alfa2600

Leslie's last sentence says it. I am a gun collector, based in NYC (hardly the best place for it), and drive to gun shows all over the northeast, west to Ohio, North to new Hampshire, south to Virginia. Most of the mileage is on the interstates, the car is brilliant red and a cop magnet, so I am basically restricted to 10 maybe 15 over the limit even with both an Escort and a Valentine I. My prior car was a little black Honda Del Sol Vtec (a true baby stealth supercar) and I was never stopped altho driving much faster. For a while I was able to talk my way out of SC tickets by saying truthfully enough that the car was my 70th birthday present from my wife. But if I get stopped on Route 80 again by the same officer I will be in trouble.

With the top down in the SC I can drive 200-300 miles with the heater on full blast even in 55-60F in comfort. Even can keep the top down in light rain, the water blows right over. For this kind of driving the car is ideal, I am up to 27,000 miles in 3 years, now on the excellent Michelin Pilot Sports, no more horrible run flats, carry a compact spare in the back seat so there is room in the trunk for rifles. End of November the car goes into hibernation and I run a Subaru until Spring. I am not going to weep about the depreciation, there is no way to avoid it on any expensive car and I will most likely keep it for another two years at least. And then we will see what else may be on the market.

dmora

I guess the thread starter doesnt understand that cars are not purchased as investment pieces with expected apprieciation.

If you want to save the most money on a purchase:
NEVER buy new.

bblueser

The only thing Lexus may be responsible for is pricing the SC430 so high, but the MSRP usually has little correlation with the actual market value of a vehicle.. Anyone who is shopping for a car should thoroughly study the residual value, before signing on the dotted line.

And, a car should never be purchased while they're new and in short supply, unless you're prepared to pay a premium. In other words, pay what the car is worth and the depreciation won't be so bad.

mmarshall

Your comments about my post are partly true...there are indeed significant differences mechanically between a TT and an SC430 (especially the folding metal top)....and they obviously were marketed for two different customer groups. But they do in fact look very similiar with the top up. The main point I was trying to make was not necessarily a direct TT-SC430 comparison, but the fact that Lexus screwed up by dropping the old SC300 and not offering a new version of it. This forces buyers who want a new SC to either buy the overpriced SC430 ( like the poor guy who started this forum line in the first place...I honestly feel for him ) or look for a used previous-generation SC300. Let's face it, the average car buyer is not going to be able to just whip out his/her checkbook and fork over 60K-plus for a brand-new SC430. A new SC300 at maybe 45-50K would be a little more reasonable...but Lexus doesn't offer it. My question.....again....is why not?

Doc C

First of all the SC430 is not for the "average" car buyer. It is NOT overpriced. In every comparison it's in it is considered a very good value. When you want to have the newest and latest car on the block, you pay a premium for it. This car was in the list of top cars as far as holding its value. That list was in this thread. The thread starter said in one post he lost 20K and in another that he lost 25K. I don't know which is correct. I'm sure there was a better deal that would have not allowed that kind of hit. We all know that deals are difficult to analyze as far as what the dealer had in the other car vs. what he needed to make on the SC etc. No one else here has expressed disappointment in the resale on their SC. The older model SCs do very well from what I understand. I can't believe this thread keeps coming up. I'm tired of reading the diatribe of very few people who feel the need to run our car down without any facts. When one person gets screwed, you can't extrapolate that to everyone else. Oh well.

Doc C

JCtx

Hopefully this will finish off this thread.
First of all, if the SC is overpriced, how would you characterize the SL500, which is 50% more expensive? We're talking rare V8 hardtop convertibles here.
Second of all, you'll probably NEVER see an SC300... or an LS300. It's a very expensive car to build, and very heavy as well, to justify a 6-cyl version. Just because this car has the same 'SC' nomenclature doesn't mean it's the same car, or an evolution of it; it's a completely different car, with a more upscale market. I hope it's NEVER built; that would REALLY bring down the prices of our 430s.
Finally, the first SCs have been selling above the $50K mark in the majority of low-mile cases, which is a pretty darn good price on an original fully-optioned sticker of $58K. You can't count taxes on any such transaction, nor a trade-in price. If you want to trade a high dollar car on a bad economy, like I've done with all my cars ( you actually get less than wholesale in many cases), it's an extra hit because you're not selling to a CONSUMER, but can't blame the car for that. When that car is sold, it'll be sold at what the car is really worth (>$50K if in good shape and low mileage). Selling dealer pockets the attractive difference. The same goes when you pay over sticker (or above what you should) to be the first kid on the block with a new car; your loss, because you paid OVER what the car is worth for the 'privilege'. Again, that extra dealer profit can't be blamed on the car.
Bottom line? Buying a new car is really a privilege, but you have to pay for it in the form of a big initial depreciation. Even if a car has better resale value than another, who the heck cares if one loses 1% (or even 2%) more over the other? Irrelevant IMHO. I wish I could be happy with a used car, because I HATE to lose money like that, but I've always done (except 1 time) it and will always do it, regardless of what I can afford. I tried it once with a convertible BMW (from my own brother), and just couldn't live with the 'normal' wear & tear on the car. My 'toy' cars look like new even after 5 years, but admittedly don't put many miles on them. And yes, always lose my a$$ on them, but it's EXPECTED.

Good day gentlemen.

JC

Doc C

JC,

Absolutely correct. I thought this thread would be dead already. Maybe now it will die. Too many pages on an invalid and fictional subject. Take care.

Doc C

turnne1

at is driving the p
After recently looking at vehicles...I can tell you that is NOT true across the board....I have been looking certified preowned 99-00 LS400's...a car that the saleman tell me compares to the MB S class...but thousands less....hmmm....well in looking at prices..it seems than an LS400 new was quite a bit less expensive than an S class..true....but it was also significantly more exoensive than an E class....that same e class 3-4 years later is worth more money...and the S class is worth at least the differnece in the sticker prices of the two cars when they were new.....since resale is set by what people are willing to pay...does that mean that people think the MB's are worth more or that the prestige of the make is what is driving the resale....and should that influence your decision as you know from the beginning what to expect for the value of your vehicle.


???

Warren
1992 300SD
Columbus Ohio

dseag2

Turnne1-

I believe if you read the previous two posts you'll see that this is a dead subject and the SC430 owners are tired of discussing it. Goodbye.

bjoraker

I liked this thread...

ceboyd

WOW! I can't believe this thread is still going strong after my initial start of it so long ago... ...go figure...


I'm starting to see more and more SC430s on the road... I am seeing at least 10+ per day now.. go figure...

I actually see less Boxster S Porsche's than SC430s... BUT I'm sure a lot of that has to do with the fact that it is winter here and most folks with Porsche's have something else for winter... I know mine is in the garage waiting for spring....

Obviously theSC430 is getting pretty darn popular considering how many I see now. I still do miss that stereo.. best I ever had in a car... BUT ALAS, I craved performance MORE than lux......

Interestingly, I saw an ad for a local 2003 SC430 with ONLY 3K miles being advertised for $50K at a local dealer in the Sunday paper... it makes me wonder what that poor guy got for trade in? ..and what they will actually sell it for..... ....of course winter is the worst time to sell and best time to buy in chicagoland when it comes to convertible cars