ceboyd

Boy was I stupid for paying not only for a new SC430, but paying sticker.... the HIGH resale value was obviously very short lived..

It looks like I'll have to take about a $20K loss for 2 years... so $10K per year depreciation... YIKES.....

My Porsche never depreciated that fast much less my BMW or other cars...

NEVER again will I buy a Lexus..

The fit and finish is great... reliability is great.. but for that wonderful fit-finish/quality, you get super stinky residual value.... ..and a BLAH ride quality... sorry, but I started to really DREAD having to drive the car on this road trip... too easy to get sleepy, bored, etc... SO little responsiveness and feel... total MUSH... made me feel like I was driving a Japanese version of a Caddy...

My Lexus experience stared out well enough... back when I was so enamored with the Mark Levinsten and the many compliments and playing with the hard top easy up and down...

BUT that is all over now...

Had I known this ahead of time, I would have just done a 2 year lease and paid less.. go figure.. Oh well, I learned a valuable EXPENSIVE lesson...





Sorry guys, no new Lexus for me... back to Porsche I go... o.k. the fit/finish/quality are not the same BUT the driving excitment/fun factor doesn't even come close!!!!!!!


Perhaps I am just too young to appreciate the SC430 at this point of time in my life... I could only handle it for so long and now I am going stir crazy....


Here is the sad truth of value comparison:

BRAND NEW Lexus 2002 SC430: COST = $63K ($66K with taxes and all that crap)
BRAND NEW Boxster S 2002: COST = $51K (sticker was $56K)

TODAY Resale value for Boxster S = $47K
TODAY Resale Value for SC430 = $47K


...see my issue??????


My thinking is that the SC430 falls into that same catagory as the Q45.. very expensive at first but practically worthless after a year or 2 old....

Also, now that all the magazines have rated the SC430 so badly or not at all, folks don't seem to want it any more....

Try and find a BAD review on a Porsche which won over Corvette for best sports car...

Sorry to say this is proving to be a bad experience with Lexus.... and I won't be back with ANY other Japanese car at this point.... UNLESS they figure out how to put in better suspension to match that lux interior/sound system....

I guess in the end, the pretty interior, superior sound system, quality service, etc. only went so far....

mikey94025

I won't argue with the fun-to-drive comparison (you probably will be more happy with a Porsche), but your resale numbers seem a little low for the Lexus/a little high for the Boxster:

Edmunds SC430, 48.7K trade-in: http://www.edmunds.com/used/2002/lex....num1.2.lexus*

Edmunds Boxster S, 40.3L trade-in: http://www.edmunds.com/used/2002/por...um2.2.porsche*

Kelly Blue Book SC430, 46K good private-party: http://www.kbb.com/kb/ki.dll/kw.kc.u...p&748&2;LE;A4&

Kelly Blue Book Boxster S, 37.5K good private-party: http://www.kbb.com/kb/ki.dll/kw.kc.u...p&748&2;PS;B2&

- M

DropTop430

Thanks for all of your honest opinions on the car. I agree with some of the things that you said, but not all. You make the car out to be several things that it isn't, never was or never was intended to be.

I guess what it comes down to is that I bought the car with my eyes wide open, meaning I knew what I wanted and knew that is what I was getting. 2 1/2 years later I couldn't be happier with my summer car.

Good luck with you hunting....

ceboyd

The Boxster S has extras bought AFTER purchase like H&R coilovers, Dansk exhaust (stainless steel), rear strut bar, aluminum pedals, OEM carbon fiber dash and center console, speedster humps, B&
M short shifter, Cold Air Intake (cone filter) and 03 18" lightweight wheels with newer tires... AND only 3047 miles on it..

yup... looking to buy a used Boxster S PRIVATE Party... extra stuff is all goodies I want and worth another $5K easily retail without even considering installation costs..


Those resale values may be in your area BUT no dealer EVER honors KBB or Edmunds when you trade in.. I have NEVER EVER gotten KBB or Edmunds on a trade in much less a private sale on ANY car.. EVER!

Doc C

Wait a second here...

You are comparing a Porsche with a ton of aftermarket add ons in your depreciation figures, but not considering adding those, or at least the cost of those, to the Lexus depreciation figures?? That's not a fair comparison. I hope you enjoy the Porsche. I see a LOT of Boxters on used car lots everywhere. I never understood why Porsche has the 911 which is a $70K+ car and you have to order leather as an option?? That's crazy!! If anyone is paying 47K for a used 2002 Boxster S with no mods, they are nuts. mikey94025 is right with his figures and they may even be high. Boxster S are everywhere. I think the japanese are making good progress in suspension/luxury. The Infiniti G35 coupe proves that. The NSX, while dated, still has a great suspension/luxury combination. We're all sorry you don't like the SC, but when I first came on here, all I heard from you was how great it was. You've changed your mind, but we haven't. We still love our cars and so go get your Porsche and let someone have your SC that WILL like it. Good luck to you.

Doc C

RNM GS3

ceboyd,

The SC430 is NOT a sports car, its a luxury cruiser. You should of known this before u bought it. A Porsche on the other hand is a sports car, but its not very luxurious. They are totally different cars. My advice to u would be to mod ur SC with coilovers and other suspension stuff to make it more sporty, if thats the only aspect of the car u dont like.

As far as resale value, Lexus is up there with MB and BMW for having great resale value on all their cars. So for u to say that u wont buy another Lexus because of its resale value makes no sense.

danynijm

This guy is comparing Apples to Oranges. Porsche, thats a VW Beetle on steroids. I've had them all, from Mercedes to BMW to Lexus. You know what, nothing compares to Lexus and nothing compares to the SC430 or the SC400.

If you are looking for speed, why don't you save some money and buy a Mustang GT. The resale value you state regarding the Porsche is way to high. The trade in on that car is $33,155. It seems that it lost lots of money there. You modifications mean nothing, if any thing they depriciate the value of the car.

You would be lucky to get Kelly Blue Book on your car, her in the New York area they use Galves which makes Kelly seem like Santa Clause.

My friend, if your looking for a dated me too car that has a terrible sound system, donkey leather and sounds like the old VW bug but can go fast and get you lots of tickets and is unreliable, the Lexus is not for you. Now, if your looking for class, luxury and something special stick with the Lexus.

Always remember, no matter what car you get, it will depriciate and those guys from the magazines to be honest do know what the heck they are talking about. Remember, when looking at a car, its not just speed and handling, its the total package.

ceboyd

NEWSFLASH!!!! I knew from the start that they are different types of cars, I even said so in many of the threads here. At the time, I wanted the LUX and Japanese opulance. Obviously, after time, I've come to realize it isn't for me. At least not at this time in my life. Perhaps in 20 or 30 years when I am older, I will come back to Lexus and appreciate it for what is is.

Saying that Lexus ranks with BMW and MB on resale sounds about right actually. They also are terrible. A 2 year old 7 serious BMW depreciates the most going down to about half value so it loses even more! (from about $80K to $40K) I won't be owning a BMW any time soon.. not after the problems I had with my Z3 and how the new cars look much less the horror stories I've heard from friends and co-workers on engine failures, etc.

After driving a MB and researching their resale value, I decided I'd never own one of them either.

Sorry, but a modern day mustang reminds me too much of cheap GM crap and I just don't want one. If I had to own an american car, I'd get a Corvette. At least it has some history behind it and some performance fun.

ceboyd

Nice Try but I own a New Beetle with H&R coilovers and plenty of other mods as my winter beater and it still doesn't even come close to a Boxster S or 911. For it's cheap price, it is a fun to drive car but just not even in the same ball park!


I also have mods on my SC430. I have close to $1000 invested on the Sirius Satellite install and close to another $1000 on the Xpel front end protection including the headlight and foglight covers. Yes, I realize now that I overpaid on the XPel but I wanted it within days of buying the car and didn't have time to do the right research on pricing and paid the dealer pricing on it. I also paid extra for that stupid 'Protector Package' and it has the Injen Intake.... needless to say, those mods mean basically NOTHING for resale value on my SC430.


My local market is littered with used SC430's and they range in price in the paper from $42K to a high of $53K with mileage as low as 4K being advertised for $48k with NAV and all options..... so that about says it all for me...

D2-AUTOSPORT

Perhaps a small point of clarity. My brother is in car sales (Toyota) and he is always telling me he can't wait to go to a highline dealership (M/B, BMW, Lexus, etc) reason? The markup on a 25k Camry is 3-5k max, yet the markup on a 47k Sequoia is 6-8k.

With those figures in mind, imagine what the markup is on a 66k Lexus!! Also keep in mind, when you drive off the lot, you lose that markup instantly. So using your figures, if you paid 66k with a 8-10k mark up, your car really only depreciated 8-10k in 2yrs, which is really good.

I hope you like your new car, and like you say maybe try a different Lexus with suspension mods later down the road!

Drive safe, and enjoy!

Larry

I agree with Chris on several points about the SC. It boils down to what you enjoy driving. I'm into performance and handling as well (had an NSX prior to the SC).

Now I'm actually thinking of selling my Lexus and buying a 350Z from an authorized "Stillen" dealer. I'm meeting with Mr. "Z" tonight (he's the number one guy in the US that deals ONLY with Z sales for vehicles with perfornmance mods. I'm looking at a Z "Track" model with supercharger, intake, exhaust, suspension, under pulley and grounding wires and high flow cats. With all these mods plus factory bgells and whistles may run me about $45 to $47 grand. If I can sell my Lexus for the same price, i just may do it.

I want speed, performance and dependability PLUS reliability.

All work and mods are covered under the factory warranty.

There may be a Porsche killer in my future.

Sorry guys........I like the Lex and it's a GREAT car ! Maybe just not for Chris and I...........

OK, feel free to slam away ! Opinions are welcome, pro and con.

1NICESC430

As has been written here so many times, "to each his own". I've had my performance cars and still can't understand why I never killed myself the way I drove them. But here I am, older but wiser, more careful (but still *****ing about those old f*rts driving only 10 mph above the limit) So I'm a "been there done that" guy who is enjoying his SC430 immensely and will never go back.

You guys enjoy yourselves doing your thing. I will miss you in this forum, though, especially my bud, Larry. (No one else laughs at my jokes)

BigHat

So as I understand from a compliation ceboyd's threads:

BMW, MB, Lexus and Imfiniti resale sucks. Not much left in mass market luxury cars is there.
It's clear to me, and other's posting, that Porsche resale is nothing to write home about either. I couldn't agree more that the Porsche business model in regard to options is just up beyond belief.

Could this be a more complex issue than it appears on the surface? I'll throw in my two cents.

First of all, depreciation is determined by a number of issues aside from the marque. The first is the model. For example, my CLK 430 lost almost NO money the first year. It stayed in the 80% range of list price for a next year and a half and finally dropped off to about 54% of purchase price as I approach the 5 year mark. That's about $25K or 46% in 5 years. No way did a C or E class car fare as well. So it's MODEL and make. Don't forget that many 1st year SC430s are coming off lease too. More supply and demand forces at work.

Second, have we forgotten about the economy??? Could there be a worse time to trade a car in the last 20 years than now??? New car incentives and downturn in demand make new car deals MUCH more appealing. Of course, used car prices and trade-in values are affected. Could that be a clue why EVERY brand is doing less well? Could this trend change in the future? Of course.

The third point I wanna make is a blinding flash of the obvious but it seems to have been missed by some. It's more painful to lose 30% to depreciation on a $60,000 ($18K) than on $20,000 car ($6K) but the ratios remain uniform and are simply yet another cost of driving an expensive car. Otherwise, everyone would be doing it.

Larry

Hey Ed, I'm "buyin"', not "dyin''...........

I'll be here for at least a few more months. Then again, when I tell my wife tonight about my hairbrained-Ralph Kramden 350Z/G35 plan, I may be here for good !

JCtx

My take on 'resale'.

You'll lose you a$$ on any car, especially the first year or two. You usually lose the dealer profit right off the bat, which is over $8K on the SC right now. The more expensive the car, the harder the hit. I'm bound to lose $10K+ on my 6-month-old vette, with $2K in extras and in immaculate condition with only 1,800 miles; that's a hit!!

As for those 'books', they're all crap. How come KKB on an '02 SC is $57K retail when I'm buying a brand new '03 with all options with 7 miles for that much?? On the other hand, trade-in says $48K but dealers only give you $42K. Throw in local market variations plus a depressed economy, and numbers will be all over the place. It's especially bad for expensive cars right now, for obvious reasons.

Many of us have made, and will continue to make 'car mistakes', just because we can't test drive a car for 1,000 miles. When we can afford something else is when we start getting tired of it, otherwise we'd keep it for a long time. Just see how many people are content driving theirs corollas and civics for years and years. There's nothing inherently wrong with our cars; it's just that we're spoiled and want a new one again.
Would I give up my corvette for a civic? Hell no. But for an SC? Oh yeah! Since most of us can't afford all the cars we'd like to have, we need to find a 'fine' compromise, and for me is the SC. If I don't have mechanical problems with it (I doubt it), hopefully the depreciation will force me not to give it up in a long time. I'm really tired of throwing my money away like that, so I really want this car to be 'it', and I think it will: not a sports car, but sporty enough. Not too fast, but fast enough, and with a proper V8. Silent as most coupes only dream of, and open-top motoring at the touch of a button. Excellent sound system and creature comforts. AND space for 4 (in emergencies <he he>). Folks, it can't get much better than this; we should be grateful we can afford this car.

JC