Brake failure. Trying to figure out what happened.
01-10-21, 05:46 PM
#46
Rookie
Thread Starter
Being the car is now over a decade old, it is well documented Lexus in
the past sadly has not honor repair even after a failure.
That said, I think the only way Lexus will repair if there is a class action
lawsuit and someone gets seriously hurt. It would be very
unfortunate if this happen.
good luck DB!
the past sadly has not honor repair even after a failure.
That said, I think the only way Lexus will repair if there is a class action
lawsuit and someone gets seriously hurt. It would be very
unfortunate if this happen.
good luck DB!
01-10-21, 09:28 PM
#47
Instructor
Guys
Be clear this ABS MC failure has nothing to do
with Bleeding the brakes. The entire ABS unit
is electronic and where the failure happens is the
pump loses pressure. Every few minutes the pump
would pressurized the ABS unit. Failure happens
when the round Gold pump no longer pressurized the
system.
I have owned 4 SC’s in the last 7 years and each of them
up to 2006 ( the last year I owned) would do the same
and you can hear every few minutes the system is pressurized.
I don’t know if 07-10 does the same but my hunch is it also
would do the same
Be clear this ABS MC failure has nothing to do
with Bleeding the brakes. The entire ABS unit
is electronic and where the failure happens is the
pump loses pressure. Every few minutes the pump
would pressurized the ABS unit. Failure happens
when the round Gold pump no longer pressurized the
system.
I have owned 4 SC’s in the last 7 years and each of them
up to 2006 ( the last year I owned) would do the same
and you can hear every few minutes the system is pressurized.
I don’t know if 07-10 does the same but my hunch is it also
would do the same
01-11-21, 06:41 AM
#48
Rookie
Thread Starter
Guys
Be clear this ABS MC failure has nothing to do
with Bleeding the brakes. The entire ABS unit
is electronic and where the failure happens is the
pump loses pressure. Every few minutes the pump
would pressurized the ABS unit. Failure happens
when the round Gold pump no longer pressurized the
system.
I have owned 4 SC’s in the last 7 years and each of them
up to 2006 ( the last year I owned) would do the same
and you can hear every few minutes the system is pressurized.
I don’t know if 07-10 does the same but my hunch is it also
would do the same
Be clear this ABS MC failure has nothing to do
with Bleeding the brakes. The entire ABS unit
is electronic and where the failure happens is the
pump loses pressure. Every few minutes the pump
would pressurized the ABS unit. Failure happens
when the round Gold pump no longer pressurized the
system.
I have owned 4 SC’s in the last 7 years and each of them
up to 2006 ( the last year I owned) would do the same
and you can hear every few minutes the system is pressurized.
I don’t know if 07-10 does the same but my hunch is it also
would do the same
This explains a lot. It's frightening that Lexus would design such a system and not have a warning to come in, have it inspected and replaced. The failure of an alarm on top of this is just crazy. This is my second SC430. I drove my first one till 190,000 miles before trading it in and never had an ounce of problems.
01-13-21, 11:47 AM
#49
Rookie
Thread Starter
I just wanted to update everyone:
Lexus is going to send someone down to analyze the car to determine what went wrong. Apparently Bosch is sending someone to do this. It may take a couple of weeks, but we should get an answer.
Lexus is going to send someone down to analyze the car to determine what went wrong. Apparently Bosch is sending someone to do this. It may take a couple of weeks, but we should get an answer.
01-13-21, 12:01 PM
#50
Rookie
Thread Starter
Guys
The problem you are describing
have to do with the ABS brake accumulator MS unit
in all the SC 430
Our SC430 like the Older GS300-350 and some of the
older Toyota 4 runner use the same ABS MC and all have
the issue where when the unit gets old, the pump might leak
and generally when they do, a loud sound warning would be heard before total breakdown
I have owned 4 SC 430s and they all make an intermediate noise
with the ABS pump . Each time I bring the car in and asked the
Lexus mechanic to look, they would say it is normal operation
That said, this would be the first time I heard where an owner have
not heard any warnings and had total brake failure.
This is concerning. I am wondering if it due to age of the ABS pump
All 4 of my SC had low mileage (30-75K) and this might be why The pump
never went completely out. If you look under my name here, you will see
this has been a topic I brought up a few times.
Hope no one ever gets hurt but maybe it is time Lexus recall all the ABS pump
in the SC 430 before there is someone getting seriously hurt.
BTW, the entire ABS MC is about $3,500 not counting labor
so this might be another reason Lexus IS ignoring this
issue.
The problem you are describing
have to do with the ABS brake accumulator MS unit
in all the SC 430
Our SC430 like the Older GS300-350 and some of the
older Toyota 4 runner use the same ABS MC and all have
the issue where when the unit gets old, the pump might leak
and generally when they do, a loud sound warning would be heard before total breakdown
I have owned 4 SC 430s and they all make an intermediate noise
with the ABS pump . Each time I bring the car in and asked the
Lexus mechanic to look, they would say it is normal operation
That said, this would be the first time I heard where an owner have
not heard any warnings and had total brake failure.
This is concerning. I am wondering if it due to age of the ABS pump
All 4 of my SC had low mileage (30-75K) and this might be why The pump
never went completely out. If you look under my name here, you will see
this has been a topic I brought up a few times.
Hope no one ever gets hurt but maybe it is time Lexus recall all the ABS pump
in the SC 430 before there is someone getting seriously hurt.
BTW, the entire ABS MC is about $3,500 not counting labor
so this might be another reason Lexus IS ignoring this
issue.
01-13-21, 04:28 PM
#51
Instructor
The pump is the problem as it loses pressure over time.
I doubt Lexus would just offer a rebuilt kit as the manufacture typically
will change the whole unit but with 70K SC, are they willing to pay
$5,000 for parts and labor to change them after all these years?
I doubt Lexus would just offer a rebuilt kit as the manufacture typically
will change the whole unit but with 70K SC, are they willing to pay
$5,000 for parts and labor to change them after all these years?
01-13-21, 05:55 PM
#52
Rookie
Thread Starter
I don't think the issue is that pumps fail. The issue is how the pump fails and how dangerous it is. when it does In addition after getting back in the car, the brakes were working fine and there still was no warning light and alarm. This does not sound like a simple brake failure. a loss of pressure would have been picked up a long time ago and displayed on the dash if the system was working correctly. It isn't and that's what makes the situation deadly.
01-13-21, 06:47 PM
#53
Instructor
Absolutely agree db!
What is crazy is the “ screeching sound”
you hear is not truly a warning but rather
over time , the pump most of the time will
be very loud almost like a screaming bird.
In your case, it becomes a totally different ball game
if there is no warning and you are saying driving at 85
mphs an hour with complete brake failure.
If you Google the site, you will find there has been
” A few “ not many but it has happened where the
SC430 owner had complete brake failure. I think In
all the reports on the site, it has been while the car was
in a parking lot or coming to a close stop
However One day I think it may happen where there is
an SC owner driving at highway speed with sudden brake
failure
What is crazy is the “ screeching sound”
you hear is not truly a warning but rather
over time , the pump most of the time will
be very loud almost like a screaming bird.
In your case, it becomes a totally different ball game
if there is no warning and you are saying driving at 85
mphs an hour with complete brake failure.
If you Google the site, you will find there has been
” A few “ not many but it has happened where the
SC430 owner had complete brake failure. I think In
all the reports on the site, it has been while the car was
in a parking lot or coming to a close stop
However One day I think it may happen where there is
an SC owner driving at highway speed with sudden brake
failure
01-13-21, 07:10 PM
#54
Lexus Test Driver
can you please share a link or two of the pump failure issue?
you recommend we Google it, but it would be much better to read what you read.
you recommend we Google it, but it would be much better to read what you read.
01-14-21, 07:57 AM
#56
Rookie
Thread Starter
Absolutely agree db!
What is crazy is the “ screeching sound”
you hear is not truly a warning but rather
over time , the pump most of the time will
be very loud almost like a screaming bird.
In your case, it becomes a totally different ball game
if there is no warning and you are saying driving at 85
mphs an hour with complete brake failure.
If you Google the site, you will find there has been
” A few “ not many but it has happened where the
SC430 owner had complete brake failure. I think In
all the reports on the site, it has been while the car was
in a parking lot or coming to a close stop
However One day I think it may happen where there is
an SC owner driving at highway speed with sudden brake
failure
What is crazy is the “ screeching sound”
you hear is not truly a warning but rather
over time , the pump most of the time will
be very loud almost like a screaming bird.
In your case, it becomes a totally different ball game
if there is no warning and you are saying driving at 85
mphs an hour with complete brake failure.
If you Google the site, you will find there has been
” A few “ not many but it has happened where the
SC430 owner had complete brake failure. I think In
all the reports on the site, it has been while the car was
in a parking lot or coming to a close stop
However One day I think it may happen where there is
an SC owner driving at highway speed with sudden brake
failure
01-15-21, 12:24 AM
#57
Wow... I dont drive my 2006 too often since I use a different car for a daily driver now. But I will be thinking about this every time I get behind the wheel of it now.
I hope that this may come to a conclusion.. That way we at least know what to change out ahead of time if the car has racked up a lot of miles. I have had a powerbooster fail in an old Prelude I had.. I had to press the brakes a lot harder and used the manual trans as well to slow down, but at least the brakes on their own would stop the car. I also had a master cylinder fail on a Taurus, and foot went to the floor and it stopped only a little. I pumped the brakes and it slowed down more as my foot went all the way down, and then when the car got down to about 15-20 mph the wheels started locking up and tires were screeching. On a Tbird, I was moving at 40mph and moving into left hand turn lane and the car would no stop at all but I was very lucky with nobody coming and no pedestrians and I was able to make a left and slow the car down right after.
I am very surprised this is happening to any Toyota products at all to be honest!
I hope that this may come to a conclusion.. That way we at least know what to change out ahead of time if the car has racked up a lot of miles. I have had a powerbooster fail in an old Prelude I had.. I had to press the brakes a lot harder and used the manual trans as well to slow down, but at least the brakes on their own would stop the car. I also had a master cylinder fail on a Taurus, and foot went to the floor and it stopped only a little. I pumped the brakes and it slowed down more as my foot went all the way down, and then when the car got down to about 15-20 mph the wheels started locking up and tires were screeching. On a Tbird, I was moving at 40mph and moving into left hand turn lane and the car would no stop at all but I was very lucky with nobody coming and no pedestrians and I was able to make a left and slow the car down right after.
I am very surprised this is happening to any Toyota products at all to be honest!
01-15-21, 06:54 AM
#58
Rookie
Thread Starter
01-15-21, 07:01 AM
#59
Instructor
Guys
By all means I’m not suggesting this is what is normal in cars but for brake failure, you must downshift the car from 6 or the 5th gear to the lower gear and after the car slows down use your parking brake.
The immediate response is to step on the brakes in a panic mode but you must
not panic. The SC has airbags and the worse it can happen you lose the car in
an accident but you are ok. You guys can test the downshift approach when you are
driving so you know how to downshift but it is not hard. The SC has the Z gate shifter
which makes downshifting easy.
By all means, I’m not suggesting this is ideal but downshifting will slow the car down and
the car will stop. Keep your area around the shift clear of crap. I know drivers have all kinds
of crap around their gear area.
This is the first time the pump did not make the loud noise. In all the other instances that i
remember hearing about this issue, the Pump went into a loud screeching mode before intermediate failure.
I had 4 SC with low miles and what I have seen so far are the higher mileage SC with 75-100K+ miles having reported failure. The other option is to replace the ABS MC pump. I have a mechanic that could replace the part but if you plan to keep the car, might be a good idea to
replace just the pump or the entire unit.
The SC is solid from engine to drivetrain to the electronic and the top. This is probably the only gremlin on the SC. All cars will have issues as they age. This issue is obviously more
troubling.
If you listen to your SC at idle,I guaranteed you will hear the ABS pump pressurizing every few minutes which is normal operation. All my 4 SC’s did this. If you don’t hear the pump
pressurizing every few minutes, that also could be a warning and to immediately go to the
dealer to have your ABS MC looked at before problems including failure.
By all means I’m not suggesting this is what is normal in cars but for brake failure, you must downshift the car from 6 or the 5th gear to the lower gear and after the car slows down use your parking brake.
The immediate response is to step on the brakes in a panic mode but you must
not panic. The SC has airbags and the worse it can happen you lose the car in
an accident but you are ok. You guys can test the downshift approach when you are
driving so you know how to downshift but it is not hard. The SC has the Z gate shifter
which makes downshifting easy.
By all means, I’m not suggesting this is ideal but downshifting will slow the car down and
the car will stop. Keep your area around the shift clear of crap. I know drivers have all kinds
of crap around their gear area.
This is the first time the pump did not make the loud noise. In all the other instances that i
remember hearing about this issue, the Pump went into a loud screeching mode before intermediate failure.
I had 4 SC with low miles and what I have seen so far are the higher mileage SC with 75-100K+ miles having reported failure. The other option is to replace the ABS MC pump. I have a mechanic that could replace the part but if you plan to keep the car, might be a good idea to
replace just the pump or the entire unit.
The SC is solid from engine to drivetrain to the electronic and the top. This is probably the only gremlin on the SC. All cars will have issues as they age. This issue is obviously more
troubling.
If you listen to your SC at idle,I guaranteed you will hear the ABS pump pressurizing every few minutes which is normal operation. All my 4 SC’s did this. If you don’t hear the pump
pressurizing every few minutes, that also could be a warning and to immediately go to the
dealer to have your ABS MC looked at before problems including failure.
Last edited by jonas's RX; 01-15-21 at 07:21 AM.
01-15-21, 07:16 AM
#60
Rookie
Thread Starter
Guys
By all means I’m not suggesting this is what is normal in cars but for brake failure, you must downshift the car from 6 or the 5th gear to the lower gear and after the car slows down use your parking brake.
The immediate response is to step on the brakes in a panic mode but you must
not panic. The SC has airbags and the worse it can happen you lose the car in
an accident but you are ok. You guys can test the downshift approach when you are
driving so you know how to downshift but it is not hard. The SC has the Z gate shifter
which makes downshifting easy.
By all means, I’m not suggesting this is ideal but downshifting will slow the car down and
the car will stop. Keep your area around the shift clear of crap. I know drivers have all kinds
of crap around their gear area.
This is the first time the pump did not make the loud noise. In all the other instances that i
remember hearing about this issue, the Pump went into a loud screeching mode before intermediate failure.
By all means I’m not suggesting this is what is normal in cars but for brake failure, you must downshift the car from 6 or the 5th gear to the lower gear and after the car slows down use your parking brake.
The immediate response is to step on the brakes in a panic mode but you must
not panic. The SC has airbags and the worse it can happen you lose the car in
an accident but you are ok. You guys can test the downshift approach when you are
driving so you know how to downshift but it is not hard. The SC has the Z gate shifter
which makes downshifting easy.
By all means, I’m not suggesting this is ideal but downshifting will slow the car down and
the car will stop. Keep your area around the shift clear of crap. I know drivers have all kinds
of crap around their gear area.
This is the first time the pump did not make the loud noise. In all the other instances that i
remember hearing about this issue, the Pump went into a loud screeching mode before intermediate failure.
Why mine had no warning is unclear. Why it started working again is also unclear. We should learn more after Lexus pulls the ER data and inspects the vehicle.
Last edited by dbryan; 01-15-21 at 07:19 AM.