dbryan

and another

https://www.carproblemzoo.com/lexus/...d-problems.php

dbryan

Well I got the data from the EDR today and I can't tell heads or tails from it. It doesn't give any errors codes and it says the brake was engaged for a while and ten finishes with that it wasn't engaged. It doesn't look like any error codes were showing just that the brakes stopped engaging. Here's the data if anyone knows how to read it.

DATA LIMITATIONS





Refer to the CDR report for data limitations












SYSTEM STATUS AT TIME OF RETRIEVAL





ECU Part Number 89170-24060



ECU Generation 00EDR




Freeze Signal OFF











FRONT/REAR EVENT RECORD SUMMARY AT RETRIEVAL




Most Recent Frontal/Rear Event 2




1st Prior Frontal/Rear Event 1




Prior Frontal/Rear Event 0











SIDE/ROLLOVER EVENT RECORD SUMMARY AT RETRIEVAL











SYSTEM STATUS AT FRONT AIRBAG DEPLOYMENT





Time to Deployment Command, Front Airbag, Driver (msec) Not Commanded



Time to Deployment Command, Front Airbag, Passenger (msec) Not Commanded



Event Severity Status, Driver N/A




Event Severity Status, Passenger N/A




Diagnostic Trouble Codes Exist No




Buckle Switch, Driver Unbuckled



Buckle Switch, Passenger Unbuckled



Ignition Cycle Since DTC was Set (times) 0




Airbag Warning Lamp ON Time Since DTC was Set (min) 0











SYSTEM STATUS AT EVENT (MOST RECENT FRONTAL/REAR EVENT, TRG 2)



TRG Count 2




Time From Previous TRG (msec) 5,100




Time from Pre-Crash to TRG (msec) 300




Shift Position Drive











LONGITUDINAL CRASH PULSE (MOST RECENT FRONTAL/REAR EVENT, TRG 2 - TABLE 1 OF 2)

Max Longitudinal Delta-V (MPH) -5.1




Max Longitudinal Delta-V (km/h) -8.3











LONGITUDINAL CRASH PULSE (MOST RECENT FRONTAL/REAR EVENT, TRG 2 - TABLE 2 OF 2)

Time (msec) Longitudinal Delta-V (MPH) Longitudinal Delta-V (km/h)

10 0 0



20 0 0



30 0 0



40 0 0



50 -1.7 -2.8



60 -1.7 -2.8



70 -1.7 -2.8



80 -3.4 -5.5



90 -3.4 -5.5



100 -3.4 -5.5



110 -3.4 -5.5



120 -5.1 -8.3



130 -5.1 -8.3



140 -5.1 -8.3



150 -5.1 -8.3










PRE-CRASH DATA, -5 TO 0 SECONDS (MOST RECENT FRONTAL/REAR EVENT, TRG 2)


Time (sec) -4.3 -3.3 -2.3 -1.3 -0.3 0 (TRG) Vehicle Speed (MPH) 17 16 15 10 9 9 Vehicle Speed (km/h) 27.4 25.7 24.1 16.1 14.5 14.5 Brake Switch ON ON OFF OFF OFF OFF Accelerator Rate OFF OFF OFF OFF OFF OFF Engine RPM (RPM) 400 800 400 400 800 800 Pre-Crash Data Status * Valid Valid Valid Valid Valid Valid






SYSTEM STATUS AT EVENT (1ST PRIOR FRONTAL/REAR EVENT, TRG 1)



TRG Count 1




Time From Previous TRG (msec) 5,100




Time from Pre-Crash to TRG (msec) 100




Shift Position Drive











LONGITUDINAL CRASH PULSE (1ST PRIOR FRONTAL/REAR EVENT, TRG 1 - TABLE 1 OF 2)

Max Longitudinal Delta-V (MPH) 0




Max Longitudinal Delta-V (km/h) 0











LONGITUDINAL CRASH PULSE (1ST PRIOR FRONTAL/REAR EVENT, TRG 1 - TABLE 2 OF 2)

Time (msec) Longitudinal Delta-V (MPH) Longitudinal Delta-V (km/h)

10 0 0



20 0 0



30 0 0



40 0 0



50 0 0



60 0 0



70 0 0



80 0 0



90 0 0



100 0 0



110 0 0



120 0 0



130 0 0



140 0 0



150 0 0










PRE-CRASH DATA, -5 TO 0 SECONDS (1ST PRIOR FRONTAL/REAR EVENT, TRG 1)


Time (sec) -4.1 -3.1 -2.1 -1.1 -0.1 0 (TRG) Vehicle Speed (MPH) 4 6 9 7 6 6 Vehicle Speed (km/h) 6.4 9.7 14.5 11.3 9.7 9.7 Brake Switch OFF OFF OFF ON OFF OFF Accelerator Rate OFF OFF OFF OFF OFF OFF Engine RPM (RPM) 800 800 1,200 800 800 800 Pre-Crash Data Status * Valid Valid Valid Valid Valid Valid






SYSTEM STATUS AT EVENT (PRIOR FRONTAL/REAR EVENT, TRG 0)



TRG Count 0




Time From Previous TRG (msec) 5,100




Time from Pre-Crash to TRG (msec) 300




Shift Position N











LONGITUDINAL CRASH PULSE (PRIOR FRONTAL/REAR EVENT, TRG 0 - TABLE 1 OF 2)


Max Longitudinal Delta-V (MPH) -34.3




Max Longitudinal Delta-V (km/h) -55.2











LONGITUDINAL CRASH PULSE (PRIOR FRONTAL/REAR EVENT, TRG 0 - TABLE 2 OF 2)


Time (msec) Longitudinal Delta-V (MPH) Longitudinal Delta-V (km/h)

10 0 0



20 -8.6 -13.8



30 -17.1 -27.6



40 -25.7 -41.4



50 -32.6 -52.4



60 -34.3 -55.2



70 -34.3 -55.2



80 -34.3 -55.2



90 -34.3 -55.2



100 -34.3 -55.2



110 -34.3 -55.2



120 -34.3 -55.2



130 -34.3 -55.2



140 -34.3 -55.2



150 -34.3 -55.2










PRE-CRASH DATA, -5 TO 0 SECONDS (PRIOR FRONTAL/REAR EVENT, TRG 0)



Time (sec) -4.3 -3.3 -2.3 -1.3 -0.3 0 (TRG) Vehicle Speed (MPH) 0 0 0 0 0 0 Vehicle Speed (km/h) 0 0 0 0 0 0 Brake Switch OFF OFF OFF OFF OFF OFF Accelerator Rate OFF OFF OFF OFF OFF OFF Engine RPM (RPM) 0 0 0 0 0 0 Pre-Crash Data Status * Invalid Invalid Invalid Invalid Invalid Invalid






PIDsStart





0 A0 FE 0 0

1 0




3 0




9 30 30 30 30 30
0A 30 30 30 30 30
0B 30 57 30 39 30
0C 30 57 30 39 30
0D 32 34 30 36 30
0E 32 34 30 31 30
0F 32 34 30 31 30
11 44 4E



12 32 34 30 36 30
13 1




14 8




15 0 74



16 FF FF FF FF FF FF 17 FF 0 0 0 FF FF 18 0 FF FF FF 0 0 19 FF FF FF FF FF FF 1A FF FF FF 0 0B 24 1B 37 42 48 4A 4C 4D 1C 4D 4D 4D 4D 4D 4D 1D 4D 4D 4D 4D 4D 4D 1E 4D 42 28 16 0B 5 1F 2 0 0 0 0 FF 20 0 0 0 0 0 0 21 0 0 0 0 0 0 22 0 0 0 0 0 0 23 0 0 0 0 0 0 24 0 0 0 0 0 0 25 7F 0 7F 0 7F 0 26 0 0 0 0 0 0 27 7F 7F 7F 7F FE AF 28 0 0 FF FF FF FF 29 0 92



2A FF




2B 44 45 44 45

2C 30 57 30 39 30
31 44 4E



32 32 34 30 31 30
33 1




34 1




35 0 6A



36 37 42 48 4A 4C 4D 37 4D 4D 4D 4D 4D 4D 38 4D 4D 4D 4D 4D 4D 39 4D 42 28 16 0B 5 3A 2 0 0 0 0 FF 3B 0 0 0 0 0 0 3C 0 0 0 0 0 0 3D 0 0 0 0 0 0 3E 0 0 0 0 0 0 3F 0 0 0 0 0 0 40 FF FF FF FF FF FF 41 FF 0 0 0 FF FF 42 0 FF FF FF 0 0 43 FF FF FF FF FF FF 44 FF FF FF 0 0B 24 45 FF FF FF FF FF FF 46 FF FF FF FF FF FF 47 7F




48 7F




49 7F




4A 92




4B FF




51 44 4E



52 32 34 30 31 30
53 1




54 1




55 0 6A



56 37 42 48 4A 4C 4D 57 4D 4D 4D 4D 4D 4D 58 4D 4D 4D 4D 4D 4D 59 4D 42 28 16 0B 5 5A 2 0 0 0 0 FF 5B 0 0 0 0 0 0 5C 0 0 0 0 0 0 5D 0 0 0 0 0 0 5E 0 0 0 0 0 0 5F 0 0 0 0 0 0 60 FF FF FF FF FF FF 61 FF 0 0 0 FF FF 62 0 FF FF FF 0 0 63 FF FF FF FF FF FF 64 FF FF FF 0 0B 24 65 FF FF FF FF FF FF 66 FF FF FF FF FF FF 67 7F




68 7F




69 7F




6A 92




6B FF




6C 30 30



BE 0 0 0 0 1 1 BF 1 2 2 2 2 3 C0 3 3 3 FF 2 3 C1 0 0 0C 0 1
C2 7 7 8 0C 0D 0E C3 2 2 1 1 2 1 C4 0 0 0 0 0 0 C5 0 0 0 0 0 0 C6 0 0 0 FF 1 1 C7 0 0 20 0 1
C8 5 5 6 7 5 3 C9 2 2 2 3 2 2 CA 0 5 0A 0F 13 14 CB 14 14 14 14 14 14 CC 14 14 14 FF 0 3 CD 0 0 0 FC 0
CE 0 0 0 0 0 0 CF 0 0 0 0 0 0 D0 AA AA AA


D1 0




D2 0 0 0 0

D3 0 0 0 0

E0 C0 10 0 0

E1 0 0



E2 0 0



EC 0




PIDsEnd

Bgw70

My first question...hope it is not a dumb question.
what is an EDR?

is this data from the Lexus or Bosch engineer?

dbryan

Sorry. Its the Electronic Data Recorder. It records everything from speed direction what pedals were pushed and what gear it is in. It seems to back up the brakes failed because it shows me braking for the first 2 intervals yet shows nothing for the last 3 although the car was still slowing down. What it doesn't seem to appear is the why? I'm surprised the technician didn't record any error codes out of the other box that mechanics always read because I could swear he said he pulled it and it said ABS failure and that is probably why the brakes failed because these cars disable the brakes when that happens.

It was pulled from my Lexus by the Bosch engineer on behalf of Lexus.

dbryan

I think this is the pertinent section. Apparently it didn't cover more than the last 5 seconds

PRE-CRASH DATA, -5 TO 0 SECONDS (MOST RECENT FRONTAL/REAR EVENT, TRG 2)

Time (sec) -4.3 -3.3 -2.3 -1.3 -0.3 0 (TRG)
Vehicle Speed (MPH) 17 16 15 10 9 9
Vehicle Speed (km/h) 27.4 25.7 24.1 16.1 14.5 14.5
Brake Switch ON ON OFF OFF OFF OFF
Accelerator Rate OFF OFF OFF OFF OFF OFF
Engine RPM (RPM) 400 800 400 400 800 800
Pre-Crash Data Status * Valid Valid Valid Valid Valid Valid

Bgw70

The big question, now what?

RichardMor

One would hope there is a report coming with some type of analysis. Have you been told anything along those lines?

Rich
Maple Valley, WA
2006 SC430 Red Mica Metallic/Camel

dbryan

I was told that Lexus was getting a copy and I was getting a copy and that they would be in touch. Of course that was mailed out Friday from my area so I got it yesterday. I imagine it will be a few days for them.

dbryan

I'll give them a few days and then call if I don't hear from them.

jonas's RX

Guys, I think since we are not engineers , the bottom line is
did the brakes had 100% failure due to lack of service or
Maintenance or did it fail due to an engineering issue ?

The argument the car is X years old is flawed because unless
The car was never serviced in 100K+ miles , I have never
heard of any modern brakes loosing complete brake failure

dbryan

There are multiple postings on the internet about the SC430 brakes failing. There are even some on this forum. I think the last 5 seconds (I wish it was 10) from the EDR is very telling. I lost the brakes about 10 seconds before the crash. At about 5 seconds before the crash the brakes engaged for a second before failing again. This lines up with the brief locking of the brakes I mentioned. It slowed the car down about 7mph because of it. After the crash the brakes were working again. I've never heard of brakes failing, working, failing again and then working again and still without a sensor going off. For all I know my incident can be the perfect storm that caused this. I'm very frustrated right now because Lexus is moving very slowly to me but I guess we need to be thorough.

jonas's RX

Exactly! Unless Lexus can show you abuse the brakes and never ever serviced them
in 100K ( black fluids , brakes down to 1MM, rotors all groved out etc)
I would try to seek legal damages if they won’t repair your SC.
Thanjfully you were not hurt but at minimum, they should
repair and repaint your SC. Bodily injury is the most costly
in a lawsuit. The manufacturer would quick pay for repairs
if you can show the ABS system was not abused in any way
for the full failure.

dbryan

So here is an update. I had to call Lexus headquarters to find out they had closed the file. They said they weren't going to to discuss it with me BUT they may want to buy it back under the lemon law. That will take 4 weeks. I took the car to my Lexus dealer, whom I trust and they examined the brake system. They couldn't find anything wrong except for one ABS sensor being disconnected. Everything else was perfect. They checked everything and even the pads were in great shape.

So now the question is could a loose fitting to an ABS sensor cause the car to turn off the brakes. Is it safe to drive? I don't know.

Wilson2000

A lose or disconnected ABS sensor should have generated a warning light or at least stored a code for it. I wouldn't drive it. Rent a vehicle and charge the cost to the settlement.

Bgw70

I agree with you Wilson...
If Toyota wants to buy it back, they probably found something very wrong and know they have another recall on their hands.

dbryan, did you happen to let Toyota know what you do for a living?
do they smell litigation coming their way ;-)