Lexus LS500/LS500h
#646
drives cars
The way I look at it is this, would I pay LS money for the G90? No. Would I pay S Class money for the LS? No. The 7 and A8 fall in there for me somewhere in between the LS and S Class. Its just varying degrees. I 100% agree that the interior of the LS500 looks more interesting, and more "special" than that of the G90. However, I really want the car to ride and drive the way I want a car to ride and drive. I spent a lot of time in cars that didn't really feel the way I wanted them to feel on the road, but that I otherwise really liked. The GS is a great example of that.
And the pricing supports my position. The G90 is a great deal at $72k loaded AWD for the V6 car, optioned like a ~ $95,000 LS500. A $95,000 LS500 is optioned like a ~ $120,000 S Class. The manufacturers clearly understand the value proposition of their offerings here.
Does my LS460 make me feel "special" when I sit in it? Not really, as I've said before many of the materials inside let me down. However, it does make me feel special when I drive it because its so quiet and it rides so smooth and nicely. I'm not going to be happy in an LS500 if it doesn't ride and drive the way I want it to, no matter how nice the interior is.
I likely would not go to the G90 over the LS500 simply because of cost. However, if its a much softer and better riding car and is less "sporty" the way the reviews make it out to be, then I very well may and accept the lower cost as a bonus. Or I just go for it and get an A8, 7 or S Class.
And the pricing supports my position. The G90 is a great deal at $72k loaded AWD for the V6 car, optioned like a ~ $95,000 LS500. A $95,000 LS500 is optioned like a ~ $120,000 S Class. The manufacturers clearly understand the value proposition of their offerings here.
Does my LS460 make me feel "special" when I sit in it? Not really, as I've said before many of the materials inside let me down. However, it does make me feel special when I drive it because its so quiet and it rides so smooth and nicely. I'm not going to be happy in an LS500 if it doesn't ride and drive the way I want it to, no matter how nice the interior is.
I likely would not go to the G90 over the LS500 simply because of cost. However, if its a much softer and better riding car and is less "sporty" the way the reviews make it out to be, then I very well may and accept the lower cost as a bonus. Or I just go for it and get an A8, 7 or S Class.
#647
Pole Position
Do we even know the pricing on the LS500 at this point?
With SUVs being much more in demand, all of Toyco (Lexus included) is shifting to more emotional/sportiness in their standard sedans to differentiate the purchase of a SUV instead. Whether that is the right decision or not remains to be seen.
With SUVs being much more in demand, all of Toyco (Lexus included) is shifting to more emotional/sportiness in their standard sedans to differentiate the purchase of a SUV instead. Whether that is the right decision or not remains to be seen.
Last edited by ST430; 12-19-17 at 02:30 PM.
#648
Pole Position
BTW> Here are my pics from the LA Auto Show:
1) It is a very large and long vehicle with a very long hood (probably for good weight distribution, but eats into the interior space)
2) Huge front and executed nicely in FSport trim (except for that hood line)
3) The rear, which isnt't bad with a nice menacing taillight.
4) the controversial C/D pillar isn't so bad in person.
1) It is a very large and long vehicle with a very long hood (probably for good weight distribution, but eats into the interior space)
2) Huge front and executed nicely in FSport trim (except for that hood line)
3) The rear, which isnt't bad with a nice menacing taillight.
4) the controversial C/D pillar isn't so bad in person.
Do we even know the pricing on the LS500 at this point?
With SUVs being much more in demand, all of Toyco (Lexus included) is shifting to more emotional/sportiness in their standard sedans to differentiate the purchase of a SUV instead. Whether that is the right decision or not remains to be seen.
With SUVs being much more in demand, all of Toyco (Lexus included) is shifting to more emotional/sportiness in their standard sedans to differentiate the purchase of a SUV instead. Whether that is the right decision or not remains to be seen.
#649
Lexus Champion
The Motor Trend review was stupid. Anybody with an objective bone in their body knows that the Bimmer and Lexus should've taken spots 1 and 2, with the G90 taking 3rd by virtue of still coming up short in some luxury and infotainment areas, and having an overall uninspired design inside and out.
Originally Posted by ST430
It is a very large and long vehicle with a very long hood (probably for good weight distribution, but eats into the interior space
Last edited by MattyG; 12-19-17 at 05:33 PM.
#651
Instructor
Having spent the past 6 months driving the new Genesis G90 TTV6, after spending 3 years driving a 2008 LS 600hL, I can agree with many of the points made in this spirited debate (LS vs G90).
What comes through the clearest to me when I drive the G90, though, is that this car could have easily been a Lexus LS in "an alternate universe" where Lexus had chosen to continue down the path of old-school luxury combined with modern safety features, instead of the current path towards a sportier suspension and an edgy, gaping maw of a front end.
Does my G90 elicit high emotion when sitting in it? Not exactly -- but it does evoke a feeling of serenity and calm, much like my LS600hL used to. I went with the G90 for the modern luxury safety features (heads-up-display, radar cruise, pedestrian detection and avoidance, etc.), the simple but elegant styling, and the overall value proposition, things I couldn't find at the time (June of this year) in a new LS (although I realize most of the new safety features can be had next year sometime in the new LS).
I haven't had a single regret since I leased my G90, and the car grows on me more and more as I get it broken in.
What comes through the clearest to me when I drive the G90, though, is that this car could have easily been a Lexus LS in "an alternate universe" where Lexus had chosen to continue down the path of old-school luxury combined with modern safety features, instead of the current path towards a sportier suspension and an edgy, gaping maw of a front end.
Does my G90 elicit high emotion when sitting in it? Not exactly -- but it does evoke a feeling of serenity and calm, much like my LS600hL used to. I went with the G90 for the modern luxury safety features (heads-up-display, radar cruise, pedestrian detection and avoidance, etc.), the simple but elegant styling, and the overall value proposition, things I couldn't find at the time (June of this year) in a new LS (although I realize most of the new safety features can be had next year sometime in the new LS).
I haven't had a single regret since I leased my G90, and the car grows on me more and more as I get it broken in.
#652
Lexus Fanatic
Having spent the past 6 months driving the new Genesis G90 TTV6, after spending 3 years driving a 2008 LS 600hL, I can agree with many of the points made in this spirited debate (LS vs G90).
What comes through the clearest to me when I drive the G90, though, is that this car could have easily been a Lexus LS in "an alternate universe" where Lexus had chosen to continue down the path of old-school luxury combined with modern safety features, instead of the current path towards a sportier suspension and an edgy, gaping maw of a front end.
Does my G90 elicit high emotion when sitting in it? Not exactly -- but it does evoke a feeling of serenity and calm, much like my LS600hL used to. I went with the G90 for the modern luxury safety features (heads-up-display, radar cruise, pedestrian detection and avoidance, etc.), the simple but elegant styling, and the overall value proposition, things I couldn't find at the time (June of this year) in a new LS (although I realize most of the new safety features can be had next year sometime in the new LS).
I haven't had a single regret since I leased my G90, and the car grows on me more and more as I get it broken in.
What comes through the clearest to me when I drive the G90, though, is that this car could have easily been a Lexus LS in "an alternate universe" where Lexus had chosen to continue down the path of old-school luxury combined with modern safety features, instead of the current path towards a sportier suspension and an edgy, gaping maw of a front end.
Does my G90 elicit high emotion when sitting in it? Not exactly -- but it does evoke a feeling of serenity and calm, much like my LS600hL used to. I went with the G90 for the modern luxury safety features (heads-up-display, radar cruise, pedestrian detection and avoidance, etc.), the simple but elegant styling, and the overall value proposition, things I couldn't find at the time (June of this year) in a new LS (although I realize most of the new safety features can be had next year sometime in the new LS).
I haven't had a single regret since I leased my G90, and the car grows on me more and more as I get it broken in.
#653
Instructor
Keep in mind that I'm leasing the G90 for the mid-$600 range. I couldn't touch a LS460 (let alone a LS500) for anything near that price.
Last edited by riknchar; 12-21-17 at 02:15 PM.
#654
Lexus Fanatic
Just wondering if you would pay the same money for a Genesis vs a Lexus. Most people I would assume would not. Same goes for some Lexus models vs a Mercedes or Audi. You see it now in everyday life, people are willing to pay a lot for the badge. I always wonder if brands like Lexus can command the same prices as a Mercedes or I am wondering now with Genesis. Too many times I hear on here that this car competes with this car or this brand competes with this brand, but does it really?
Last edited by Toys4RJill; 12-21-17 at 03:13 PM.
#655
Lexus Fanatic
Just wondering if you would pay the same money for a Genesis vs a Lexus. Most people I would assume would not. Same goes for some Lexus models vs a Mercedes or Audi. You see it now in everyday life, people are willing to pay a lot for the badge. I always wonder if brands like Lexus can command the same prices as a Mercedes or I am wondering now with Genesis. Too many times I hear on here that this car competes with this car or this brand competes with this brand, but does it really?
The only significant difference that I can see, between then and now, is that, back then, SUVs weren't the huge factor they are today. Genesis would, no doubt, be doing better if they had an SUV....which they don't. Also, some stand-alone dealerships wouldn't hurt.
Last edited by mmarshall; 12-21-17 at 04:14 PM.
#656
Moderator
iTrader: (16)
not to get too far off topic in regards to Genesis in this LS500 thread..
Well the G90 doesn't outdo the Mercedes S-Class, so in that regard Genesis fails today (for now) where Lexus succeeded (back then) in putting the segment on notice.
And when you're not established you have to have an ace in the hole. It worked for Lexus back then, because look at what the competition was producing. Nowadays you can find a solidly built car from pretty much anyone. Cutting and pasting the Lexus formula won't work. I believe you answered your own question with your response below. 0 SUVs in the Genesis stable, little interest in expensive sedans (the G70 3-series fighter will help, but not as much as a utility vehicle).
Yup, they need some SUVs, and I definitely agree they need stand-alone dealers. Perception is everything to the 'luxury' buyer. Genesis might make a great product but 9/10 if I give someone the choice between a Genesis sedan vs an equivalent model from an established brand like Benz, BMW, Jag, Lexus, Audi etc.. folks will pick the latter(s). The power of a badge is immense.
Yup, they need some SUVs, and I definitely agree they need stand-alone dealers. Perception is everything to the 'luxury' buyer. Genesis might make a great product but 9/10 if I give someone the choice between a Genesis sedan vs an equivalent model from an established brand like Benz, BMW, Jag, Lexus, Audi etc.. folks will pick the latter(s). The power of a badge is immense.
#657
Lexus Fanatic
Neither the G90 nor the LS500, today, actually outdoes the S-Class. The point I was making, though, is that the G90 today, is a credible alternative to the LS, at a lower cost and better warranty.
That part, I'm not sure I agree with. If Genesis can get some models that will sell, I think they can more or less repeat what Lexus did almost 30 years ago.
That's because many are uneducated. I agree.....too many buy simply on image.
Cutting and pasting the Lexus formula won't work.
Yup, they need some SUVs, and I definitely agree they need stand-alone dealers. Perception is everything to the 'luxury' buyer. Genesis might make a great product but 9/10 if I give someone the choice between a Genesis sedan vs an equivalent model from an established brand like Benz, BMW, Jag, Lexus, Audi etc.. folks will pick the latter(s). The power of a badge is immense.
#658
Lexus Fanatic
To be fair, when buying a luxury item image and prestige has a lot to do with it. Anybody who says it doesn't isn't being honest with you. Even for me, knowing what the car brings to the table I would have a hard time parting with my Lexus for a car that I'm going to have to constantly explain to everybody what it is.