mmarshall

Thanks for the write-up, Steve. Hard to sum it all up in one sentence (like in my "In a Nutshell" summaries), but, if one had to, it would probably be that Lexus, with the LS500, simply made it into just a little bit more of a sports-sedan (not a huge difference) than the 460.

I did too, on my Lacrosse.....for about the first 2-3 weeks. That's about how long it takes to get used to it. Now, it's almost second-nature to me, though the N-R / R-N functions can still be a little tricky.

That's basically done for aerodynamics, but also, of course, to try and make sedans look like coupes. Like you, I'm not a terribly big fan of it....it can make the inside base of the windows difficult to reach and clean. (I do my own washing/cleaning).

You mentioned rear legroom (for the kids)...but not rear headroom. I'd assume, then, that the new roofline either does not significantly affect headroom or entry/exit ease, or, if it does, the kids aren't tall enough to where it matters.

Certainly not much to complain about inside if the only sub-standard piece you could find is the belt-anchor. True, loss of power-operation might be a cost-cutting move, but, that probably won't make much practical difference, day-to-day, unless several different people drive the car and have to re-adjust it.

(On a similar note, I think that's primarily what's going to sell the new Navigator more than anything else....the enormousous increase in the quality of the materials used inside over the former version).



I agree the TTV6 is not necessarily a proper substitute for a N/A V8, but you can thank the CAFE and emission rules for that. We've known for some time that engines were going to get smaller...that's no surprise. The only question is....how much? Look at the Cadillac and Volvo flagships, for instance, which have 2.0T fours (though I think that Cadillac came to their senses and discontinued the 4 in the CT6). That's one of (several) things I liked about the Continental more than the CT6...despite the FWD set-up, the Conti avoided that turbo-4 nonsense to start with.

natnut

Reading this makes me excited for the new GS.

I hope Lexus goes all out in making the GS a SPORTS 4 door coupe. Imagine the 3.5TT in a lighter more nimble GS body....

patgilm

SW17LS

Thats actually not what I said at all. The ride quality is stiffer, but not as big a degree stiffer as I thought it would be. But, this car is a huge departure from what the LS has historically been, it feels, looks completely different. Its much tighter and more coupe like inside, feels much more direct and more communicative. If I did not know this car was an "LS" I would never assume that it was an LS.

What I said:

The functionality of the shifter isn't really my problem, its the same as the Prius, using it isn't the issue. I think it looks dumb, and its so far forward on the console I can't rest my hand on it when driving like I like to do which is a comfort reduction for me. Plus it beeps in reverse which is annoying, I'm sure it can be defeated. Our Prius beeped the same way and we had that turned off.

Its all for styling, in fact I think it looks weird actually from the outside, the roof gets higher as it goes back and thats what makes the rear windows look taller than the front, very odd look for a car.

You can see in this pic what I mean, note how the roof gets taller as it gets to the rear window:



Compared to the LS460L:



You can see immediately where that headroom is missing in the front of the roof area. No clue why they did that, didn't help aerodynamics certainly (as you will see below), and personally I think it looks weird there, not good.

The LS500 has the highest coefficient of drag of any LS sedan made, even the original LS was more aerodynamic.

LS500: .30 cD
LS460: .26 cD
LS430: .26 cD (coil)/.25 cD (air)
LS400: .28 cD

The LS500 has a quite high cD for a sedan. Current S Class is .25. If you look at the new "Spindle" Lexus cars they all have considerably higher cD numbers, RX went from .33 to .39. That probably accounts for the wind noise I heard on the LS500 my LS460L didn't have.

Headroom in the back seemed fine, headroom in the front considerably tighter.

Actually you can complain about the belt anchor Car of this league should have no control or touch point that feels as cheap as that, especially when all previous versions of that specific car have had that part be power operated.

Thanks! Look forward to your thoughts.

This car is the LWB car, its the SWB that they didn't make this time around. At 207" long its 2" longer than the LS460L and the same length as a LWB only S Class or 7 Series. Its shocking the back is as tight as it is given its length.

mmarshall

Dunno, Steve. Based on your description, sure sounds to me like a case of trying to inject at least some sport into what was a classic luxury sedan. You may not have said it verbatim, but looks like the signs are there.

Regardless of what we personally think, though, Bitkahuna, in a previous thread, brought up the issue that these E-shifters are probably going to be the wave of the future....and that conventional cable shifters will be phased out. The more I see of them, the more I think he is correct. They do, in fqct, save space. My beef, though, is that some automakers could, if they wanted, do a simple PRNDL fore/aft motion electronically (like a conventional shifter) and still save space...but yet refuse to do so. I suspect that, in a few years, we will see a new Federal standard for the electronic shift-patterns, just like we did back in the mid-late 1960s wrk conventional shifters.



The general styling and low rooflines may help aerodynamically, but those big spindle grilles and sharp bezel-corners on many of today's lexus products sure don't. Another thing that adds to drag today is wider tires.



Yep...that part I'll agree with....as I just mentioned above.

Well, it's your review, not mine. If you want to complain about it, then I guess that's your prerogative. I've never seen a vehicle, though, even in the six-figure range, that didn't have something, somewhere, that didn't look or feel cheap. The perfect vehicle has yet to be built.

SW17LS

Good lord...you're not listening to me LOL. You keep saying "I dunno, I think X" in response to me literally saying "X". I cannot be more clear...the car is VERY DIFFERENT, and MUCH SPORTIER. THEY HAVE DONE EXACTLY AS YOU HAVE SAID. Clear enough?

Your assessment "it would probably be that Lexus, with the LS500, simply made it into just a little bit more of a sports-sedan (not a huge difference) than the 460." is not at all accurate. The personality of this car is entirely different. Much more "big better GS" than "big better ES" if that makes sense. If you didn't tell me it was an LS I would never guess it was an LS.

Conventional shifters have been e shifters for years, the cable shift has been replaced with electronic sensors. The "weird different setup" is just a fad. They will go back to more normal, expected layouts eventually. Right now everybody is trying to be different and its obnoxious IMHO.

The car I drove was $103,000, its a very expensive car. Theres a difference between "something/somewhere" and a control that is going to be used sporadically through the vehicle's life. This control is so cheap it leaves an impression, which isn't acceptable in this caliber of vehicle, and really silly when you look at how much they sweated other aspects of the car. Making excuses doesn't do anybody any favors, Lexus should hear it, that part was way better quality in my GS and ES, thats not right.

I'd much rather not have available hand folded origami door inserts and have that control be better quality, or better yet, still power.

And why do you always have to argue? You're right, it is my review not yours. Instead of arguing with me about some specific detail on a car you haven't even sat in, go drive one yourself and write your own review

oldcajun

Lexus had a problem with their flagship. The LS460 had gotten old and was no longer selling. As I see it, they had two ways to go with the replacement. The "safe" approach (which I favor) was to make a better LS. More room, quieter, better riding, more luxurious, and faster. More like a Genesis G90 on steroids. The path they chose was to invent a new kind of car to replace the LS. Obviously it is targeted at a different buyer than the traditional LS customer as it forsakes many of the characteristics that made the LS what it was. I'm not thrilled with the result. Bigger on the outside and smaller on the inside doesn't make much sense. I generally like the interior except for the instrument section. Much too small for this car and the ***** on either side are just flat ugly. The exterior styling doesn't inspire me to rush out and buy one. At best, it isn't as bad as I thought it might be.

I can't figure who Lexus thinks the buyers are for this car. They're not likely to get many S Class, 7 Series, or A8 conquests.

blacksc400

iTrader: (4)

Aron9000

I had no idea that the original 1990 LS400 was that aerodynamic .28 cd back in 1990 was space shuttle/concorde type of aerodynamic science.

I kind of get what you are saying though, that this new LS isn't a traditional Lexus LS. The look is way more radical, and from the way it drives it is an entirely different car. Main thing I hate about this new car is they cluttered up the styling. That front grill is huge and look at it from the side, its way more cluttered looking than the previous LS

chromedome

The new LS looks like it benchmarks the Panamera and old, low slung luxury sedans like the 90s Jag XJ and BMW E38 7-series. That tight roofline and steeply raked glass looks great and the tight headroom wouldn't affect the sub-6 footer market which Lexus is aiming for.

Maybe Lexus didn't bother going against the leading S-class and opted to go its own way. Why fight in a crowded market when you can make something new? It's not like the previous LS was a hot seller anyway, it probably sold as much as the Jag XJ.

Aron9000

I love the current S-class,and one of those reasons why is the space inside it. If the LS is tight inside by comparison, man I have a hard time loving it. I've owned a couple of huge *** Cadillac sedans, a 1991 Brougham D'Elegance(loaded with every option) and a 1995 Fleetwood(stripper model, red with light tan interior, bought it because it didn't have a vinyl top). You know why I bought those huge Cadillacs???? I loved the styling and all the chrome, but it was also all about that full size spread out interior space.

Toys4RJill

100% agree. If you had never seen the LS500 badges on the rear and Lexus was to do a focus group and ask you what this car was, you would never know that this was a Lexus LS. Perhaps if you were to sit in the drivers seat and use the power seat belt height adjuster or the passenger seat controls from the drivers rear you might know, but they even removed these two hallmarks of the model. Even the drag coefficient has been changed. The new LS is a huge departure from what the LS car was in the past. Even the V6 is a different avenue.

Is it the right direction? Not really sure yet, need more time but I think making a whisper quiet car that is good on ergonomics is not what the market wants. Don't you think it is amazing that they changed the LS so much and took away some of the details yet the press media actually likes the car?

Toys4RJill

Was a really nice luxury detail they always had. Sad to see it go.

mmarshall

I'll overlook the "Good Lord" comment....it's not worth arguing about. I myself will certainly won't be in the market for a new LS. And both you and Hoovey have covered it well enough (not to mention Alex Dykes) that there is no need for me to.

Hoovey689

iTrader: (16)

I agree it resembles Panamera, and I'll add Quattroporte. Though it's final execution makes it fall somewhere in-between the outgoing LS460 and the aforementioned swoopy sedans.