SW17LS

Technology marches ever forward and there are tradeoffs. No, the LS430 did not have this type of fuel system, it was also an engine that dated back to 1989 basically. Thats 27 years ago, a very long time. The DI is how you can have a car that gets 100 hp more than the LS430 while still having similar to better fuel economy. Guess what? the 4.6 in the LS is pretty old too, everybody else is using supercharged or turbocharged engines now and they make a specific sound too.

Something is wrong with your car. This is the excerpt from the consumer reports review of the 2013 LS:





From edmunds road test of the LS460:



If you look through Edmunds road tests, you will not find another car with a dB rating that low at a 70 MPH cruise. For comparison this is a Rolls Royce Phantom:



An all electric Tesla Model S:



Yes an LS460 is quieter than a Tesla Model S at FULL THROTTLE.

A Mercedes S550:



Suffice it to say, the car should be one of if not the quietest cars you can buy.

I think the dealer got you with this car, something happened to it before you bought it that has caused this problem. The wind noise issues they described on the LS460 were for early run 2007 and 2008 models (and a repair is outlined here that addresses them). They're trying to convince you that its just the way the car is to make you go away, we can tell you that what you described is not what the car should be like.

LOL, you're not stuck with anything. Just get rid of it if you're that unhappy. Complaining here doesn't do anything for you.

dlbuckls10

Unusual situation purchasing a $70k CPO LS that's noisier than '85 Ford Taurus and you are stuck and unhappy with. Have you tried another dealership?

Dr. Jekyll

iTrader: (1)

Peace out Reg!

Hope you enjoy enjoy your time over at www.iheartfords.com since you are clearly seeing out-performance by a Taurus and now and Explorer.

mcomer

Does your LS have 3M or comparable plastic chip guard film on the mirror
housings? Seen (heard?) a new LS with the little film patch mislocated about
1/2 inch to close to the inside front edge and the car howled horribly. Fold
the mirror in and it went away. Peeled the film and placed a new sheet
correctly and restored the peace. Would not have believed it if I had not driven
it before and after.

SW17LS

I was going to ask that too...

Kennyr44

I just returned from a run in my 2007. I have zero wind noise and zero transmission noise. Just a perfect driving quiet car, even with original control arm bushings. If I paid 70/80k or just bought a cpo car and my transmission was loud and had crazy wind noise I would be really upset also. The engine noise is normal and that doesn't even bother me. For 385 hp I can live with that no problem.

litesoarer

Price? Warranty? Location?

I hope you're ready to take a bath on it considering the issues present.

jmcraney

reg331,

I suspect that your dealer's contention that "the wind noise and direct fuel port is normal and nothing they can do" is correct. And, I suspect that your contention that your car "has more noises than a 1985 Ford Taurus" is corret too. It is very difficult to quantify these issues, even with scientific instruments, so you are unlikely to prevail with the dealer.

Some of the members of this forum seem skeptical of you concerns because they are aware of the same noises that you are having a problem with and to them these noise are just barely audible in their cars. They seem to be wondering if you are hypersensitive or if your expectations are unreasonable. But, I think that if they had an opportunity to drive your car they would appreciate your discomfort.

One very important characteristic that a "quiet car" must have is a cabin that is like a soundproof box. Of course when we say soundproof box we mean an area where the levels of external sounds are reduced such that they are below the level of hearing. Of course the isolation of a soundproof box is not infinite. If a soundproof box has an isolation of 100dB then all signals below 100dB will not not be sensed and signals above 100dB will be reduced in volume by 100dB. An external sound that has a sound pressure of 80dB would be inaudible and an external sound that has a sound pressure of 150dB would have a sound pressure of 50dB inside the sound proof box.

From what you have told us, I suspect that your car's sound isolation has been reduced by a defect. That means that sounds outside you car, like the noise your car makes by moving through the air, the "normal" noises from the mechanical componenets of your car, the noises your car's tires make with the road surface, the noise that rain water makes when it splashes on the surfaces of your car and the underside too, the sounds of the other vehicles aound you and all the other external noises are not being reduced as much as they should be.

To help you understand this, I am going to describe a simple test to quantify a car's sound isoltion. Please don't try to do this as it would not give you any useful information - you wouln't have a "normal isolation" for comprison and it wouldn't tell you what to fix.

To do this test you would need two people, a sound meter, a pistol, and of course a car to test.
You would conduct your test at the intersection of X St and Y Ave.

First the shooter would be positioned, a half block from the inteersection, on X St and the man with the sould meter would be positioned at the intersection. The man with the sound meter would set the meter to record the peak sound level, signal the shooter to fire a round into a suitable containment vessle, like a barrel of water, and then note the peak amplitude of the sound from shot report. Let's say the peak amplitude is 150dB.

Then, have the man with the sound meter drive the car up Y Ave and park it in the intersection, turn the engine off and with the windows up, and the sound meter set to record peak sound, signal the shooter to fire a round. Note the peak sound amplitude of the shot. Let's say the peak amplitude of this shot was 100dB.

From this we can say that the car has a sound isolation of about 50dB. This means that every sound outside the car will be reduced about 50dB for a person inside the car. Which means that for every sound outside the car, the sound pressure inside the car is reduced by a factor of 100,000. From a perception standpoint the sound is reduced to 1/32.

For a car with a compromised-sound-isolation defect we might see the isolation reduced to 20dB. That translates to a sound pressure reduction factor of 100 or a perceived reduction to 1/4. With a condition like this, some of the outside sounds that are below the threshold hearing in a defectless car would be very noticeable.

Your characterization of your car as “having more noises than a 1985 Taurus” seems to cause consternation with some of our forum members. I am not sure why that is - you were speaking of your car, and not their car. Saying that it is worse than an ’85 Taurus may be an understatement. Lexus has had to buyback many hundreds, likely more than a thousand, LS460s as a result of state Lemon Law statutes because of this issue and much of that is documented in this forum. It’s often referred to as “Wind Noise” but it is really a sound isolation problem. A sort of this forum’s index will show that the discussion of wind noise is several orders of magnitude larger than any other subject. While reports of this problem were more prevalent in the ’07 and ’08 models, there were many reports about this is the ’09. ’10. ’11 and ’12 models too. And there is one other report here about a ’13 LS.

The only cause of this problem has been identified as a trim defect on the front doors.

Lexus tried many fixes for the wind noise but was never successful and their position evolved to saying everything that was complained about in that regard was “normal” or “met specifications.”

The 4th generation LS is as quiet or quieter than any car ever sold in the USA. Your dealer’s belief that it is not as quiet as the previous generation is wrong.

It is unlikely that you will ever get any help from Lexus for this problem. That’s another story and I will not get into that here.

Many other LS460 owners have fixed their wind noise problems with a DIY repair that is described in this forum. If you decide to keep your car, you should look into that.

Thank you for posting your comments – we value you as a member of our forum.

SW17LS

I can only speak from many years of posting on car forums, but the frustration from other members comes from the OP's unwillingness to try and look for a solution to the problem, and to cast aspersions on the model as a whole instead of recognizing that their particular car has an issue, not the model itself. Its the fact that he's not looking for a solution, he's looking to complain, and thus the whole thread is a big waste of everybody's time.

Had he come here looking for guidance from us to fix his car the response would have been different.

Like I said above, I have no doubt his car is loud, but this particular car on the whole is not loud.

Hell, I've been tempted to do your repair myself just for the hell of it and I don't consider my car loud.

I posted the dB ratings above, I always meant to point out to you that edmunds also tested a 2007 LS and the dB rating at 70MPH cruise was 8 dB louder than the 2011 they tested. One car had the wind noise issue you mentioned the other did not.

reg331

I would like to thank those who understand that the LS 460 does have it issues concerning the transmission pump, wind noise and engine noise. I appreciate your suggestions for getting this matter resolved.

Unfortunately, like so many other forums there are those who only like to criticize and offer nothing. I understand that forums are for discussions and for sharing information. With that in mind, I would like to also acknowledge that we will not all agree on solutions.

I also strongly suspect that some people on this forum are most likely affiliated with Lexus dealerships who will do anything to protect their product.

DaveGS4

iTrader: (2)

Folks, let's knock off the personal commentary. Not needed to discuss the issue at hand.

SW17LS

If you read what jmcraney has posted on this topic in the LS460 forum, I'd be willing to bet that you can solve your wind noise problem, assuming the answers to the questions others have asked about whether or not its the original windshield, whether there is paint protection film on the windows are yes and no.

The caveat however is that you're going to have to put some effort towards solving the issue, this isn't something the dealer is going to do, you're going to have to try it out yourself and see if it works for you. He has step by step instructions here with pictures, etc.

Dr. Jekyll

iTrader: (1)

It's funny how you like to call the other members out and assume that those who disagree with you are affiliated with Lexus. You didn't come here asking for help, you came here to complain. Maybe if you had asked for assistance you'd have found solutions or more help in resolving your concerns. Instead you opined for an old Ford. What did you think would happen? And you only have 8 posts here so I'd say that you yourself "offer nothing" as you had asserted. A forum is just that, a venue to share ideas. If you really wish to keep your car and would like to resolve the issues that have been plaguing you I suggest you start a new thread. Then make sure to communicate back to the members willing to go out of their way to fix your problem to see if a solution is really possible because a blanket statement that your generation Lexus is inferior to the previous ones is patently false.

Doublebase

Well that settles it then...LS460's have transmission pump problems and the people that own them don't like to help other members out (even the ones that just come here to tell us how the LS460 is a Ford Taurus). Glad that's taken care of.

In all seriousness, for all the people that drive these cars hundreds of miles each week, take care of them, and enjoy them...while also enjoying virtually trouble free car ownership...it's just a little insulting when someone pops up on here and tells us these cars suck. When that is not anywhere close to true. Everyone has a right to their opinion, I just think anyone that expresses an opinion that is insulting to others, must expect the same treatment back. Sounds fair to me.

roadfrog

They didn't make Ford Taurus in 1985 (it was 1986 and my wife had one). So I KNOW that the LS is quieter than a "1985 Ford Taurus". LOL