Interesting...Toyota's Lexus Testing Haggle-Free Sales at 12 U.S. Stores
08-11-16, 05:36 PM
#451
Lexus Fanatic
You can make a guess of the dealer's cost. You don't really know. They may have offered him a great price on the trade but a crappy price on the new car he bought, there is no way to determine for sure what their cost basis is.
But again, the basis isn't the issue, I would look at what similar cars are selling for and go from there. If he makes $10,000 and I get a good price, godspeed.
But again, the basis isn't the issue, I would look at what similar cars are selling for and go from there. If he makes $10,000 and I get a good price, godspeed.
08-11-16, 05:57 PM
#452
Lexus Fanatic
Originally Posted by mmarshall
You probably already know this, but with used cars, though (particularly non-CPOs), one has to take overall vehicle condition and mileage when determining what "similar cars" are selling for. Used vehicles of similar age and wear can be everywhere from virtually mint condition to something that looks like it came from the city dump. KBB and NADA are two organizations that help determine a reasonably accurate resale value depending on condition....I particularly like KBB, and have often used it myself, and when helping others.
I find KBB very inaccurate...
08-12-16, 09:12 AM
#453
Lead Lap
KBB is the dealers hook. Potential trade ins and of course used car buyers use them to feel all warm and fuzzy inside. Alot of dealers have also added this new indirect means of gathering leads by "Guaranteeing trade values" for "7 days".
Edmunds is the more gloomy close to realistic prices of your cars value you can get without a dealership license or buddy to access the real numbers online.
CarMax is where you get your numbers, since they can check out the car, and then give you a print out. Numbers run fairly good and again great tool to show to your dealer during trade in.
Manheim is where its at though. This is the book of all used cars. If you have a license and access, know a buddy who does, or pay someone to look up these numbers you have the exact market value of a car in a particular region.
Think of it this way, no dealership will give you above that number unless your car is a golden egg during a trade in, nor will they try to be too close to that number during a sale.
Edmunds is the more gloomy close to realistic prices of your cars value you can get without a dealership license or buddy to access the real numbers online.
CarMax is where you get your numbers, since they can check out the car, and then give you a print out. Numbers run fairly good and again great tool to show to your dealer during trade in.
Manheim is where its at though. This is the book of all used cars. If you have a license and access, know a buddy who does, or pay someone to look up these numbers you have the exact market value of a car in a particular region.
Think of it this way, no dealership will give you above that number unless your car is a golden egg during a trade in, nor will they try to be too close to that number during a sale.
08-13-16, 05:45 AM
#454
Additionally, I don't believe I am advising anybody, nor is anybody advising me. We are having an exchange of thoughts.
Please keep that in perspective.
08-27-16, 07:20 AM
#455
Driver School Candidate
Join Date: Aug 2016
Location: Washington
Posts: 12
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I am shopping for a 2016 RX and was bored this morning, so I decided to take all of the prices for 2016 RX models from Lexus of Bellevue, non-F Sport, premium package or above. Keep in mind pricing is less aggressive in WA State than places like California.
- Range in % off of MSRP: 0% to 6.91%
- Range in Discount $: 0 to $3,735
- Average % off of MSRP: 4.81%
- Average Discount $: 2,630
08-27-16, 07:37 AM
#456
Lexus Fanatic
I am shopping for a 2016 RX and was bored this morning, so I decided to take all of the prices for 2016 RX models from Lexus of Bellevue, non-F Sport, premium package or above. Keep in mind pricing is less aggressive in WA State than places like California.
- Range in % off of MSRP: 0% to 6.91%
- Range in Discount $: 0 to $3,735
- Average % off of MSRP: 4.81%
- Average Discount $: 2,630
One thing that could affect what you pay, of course, is the sales tax. Where is the car going to be registered....California or Washington? In general (though I don't know this to be a fact) the Washington sales tax on a new vehicle is probably lower, as California tends to pick people's pockets. But, either way, by law, the dealer has to charge the sales tax rate of the state the car is actually going to be registered in. Then, of course, if California requires safety or emissions-tests to get a car registered, a dealer in Washington state cannot deliver a new car that has passed those sets......you may have to get them done in California, for an additional fee.
I run into this problem quite often when advising people car-shopping here in the Washington D.C. area, with three major local jurisdictions involved....D.C., MD, VA, and all three have different regulations and taxes. Virginia can be especially difficult, because not only are safety and emissions tests regularly required at the state and EPA level, but there are sometimes even COUNTY fees and registrations involved as well.
Last edited by mmarshall; 08-27-16 at 07:48 AM.
08-27-16, 07:43 AM
#457
Driver School Candidate
Join Date: Aug 2016
Location: Washington
Posts: 12
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Welcome to CL.
One thing that could affect what you pay, of course, is the sales tax. Where is the car going to be registered....California or Washington? In general (though I don't know this to be a fact) the Washington sales tax on a new vehicle is probably lower, as California tends to pick people's pockets. But, either way, by law, the dealer has to charge the sales tax rate of the state the car is actually going to be registered in.
One thing that could affect what you pay, of course, is the sales tax. Where is the car going to be registered....California or Washington? In general (though I don't know this to be a fact) the Washington sales tax on a new vehicle is probably lower, as California tends to pick people's pockets. But, either way, by law, the dealer has to charge the sales tax rate of the state the car is actually going to be registered in.
The main purpose of my analysis was to compare pricing in WA/OR of the Lexus Plus dealership (Bellevue) vs. the non-Lexus Plus dealerships to see how much worse the non-haggle prices are.
08-27-16, 07:58 AM
#458
Lexus Fanatic
Originally Posted by mmarshall
Welcome to CL.
One thing that could affect what you pay, of course, is the sales tax. Where is the car going to be registered....California or Washington? In general (though I don't know this to be a fact) the Washington sales tax on a new vehicle is probably lower, as California tends to pick people's pockets. But, either way, by law, the dealer has to charge the sales tax rate of the state the car is actually going to be registered in. Then, of course, if California requires safety or emissions-tests to get a car registered, a dealer in Washington state cannot deliver a new car that has passed those sets......you may have to get them done in California, for an additional fee.
I run into this problem quite often when advising people car-shopping here in the Washington D.C. area, with three major local jurisdictions involved....D.C., MD, VA, and all three have different regulations and taxes. Virginia can be especially difficult, because not only are safety and emissions tests regularly required at the state and EPA level, but there are sometimes even COUNTY fees and registrations involved as well.
One thing that could affect what you pay, of course, is the sales tax. Where is the car going to be registered....California or Washington? In general (though I don't know this to be a fact) the Washington sales tax on a new vehicle is probably lower, as California tends to pick people's pockets. But, either way, by law, the dealer has to charge the sales tax rate of the state the car is actually going to be registered in. Then, of course, if California requires safety or emissions-tests to get a car registered, a dealer in Washington state cannot deliver a new car that has passed those sets......you may have to get them done in California, for an additional fee.
I run into this problem quite often when advising people car-shopping here in the Washington D.C. area, with three major local jurisdictions involved....D.C., MD, VA, and all three have different regulations and taxes. Virginia can be especially difficult, because not only are safety and emissions tests regularly required at the state and EPA level, but there are sometimes even COUNTY fees and registrations involved as well.
Buying a car in DC, MD or VA for instance makes no difference from a sales tax and titling perspective
08-27-16, 08:08 AM
#459
Lexus Fanatic
Welcome to CL.
One thing that could affect what you pay, of course, is the sales tax. Where is the car going to be registered....California or Washington? In general (though I don't know this to be a fact) the Washington sales tax on a new vehicle is probably lower, as California tends to pick people's pockets. But, either way, by law, the dealer has to charge the sales tax rate of the state the car is actually going to be registered in. Then, of course, if California requires safety or emissions-tests to get a car registered, a dealer in Washington state cannot deliver a new car that has passed those sets......you may have to get them done in California, for an additional fee.
I run into this problem quite often when advising people car-shopping here in the Washington D.C. area, with three major local jurisdictions involved....D.C., MD, VA, and all three have different regulations and taxes. Virginia can be especially difficult, because not only are safety and emissions tests regularly required at the state and EPA level, but there are sometimes even COUNTY fees and registrations involved as well.
One thing that could affect what you pay, of course, is the sales tax. Where is the car going to be registered....California or Washington? In general (though I don't know this to be a fact) the Washington sales tax on a new vehicle is probably lower, as California tends to pick people's pockets. But, either way, by law, the dealer has to charge the sales tax rate of the state the car is actually going to be registered in. Then, of course, if California requires safety or emissions-tests to get a car registered, a dealer in Washington state cannot deliver a new car that has passed those sets......you may have to get them done in California, for an additional fee.
I run into this problem quite often when advising people car-shopping here in the Washington D.C. area, with three major local jurisdictions involved....D.C., MD, VA, and all three have different regulations and taxes. Virginia can be especially difficult, because not only are safety and emissions tests regularly required at the state and EPA level, but there are sometimes even COUNTY fees and registrations involved as well.
08-27-16, 08:36 AM
#460
Lexus Champion
It's the same around me. Many people buy cars in IL, IN and WI and you pay taxes and fees based on the state/county where the car is registered.
08-27-16, 08:38 AM
#461
Lexus Fanatic
As for emissions, the state, in some areas, DOES require certification...especially California, with its complex CARB requirements. But, with a new car, in Virginia, it is automatically assumed to pass, and not usually given a separate test when brand-new unless something is visibly wrong, like white, blue, or black smoke coming out the tailpipe (not to be confused with water/steam condensation, which is normal on a cold engine with a catalyst). The first formal test (in parts of the Virginia where the EPA requires it, like in the traffic-choked D.C. region), is given after two years, then every two years thereafter.
BTW, not that I'm excusing the company's actions (which I don't), but laws like that are one reason why VW programmed their diesels to pass the tests when new or being routinely re-tested, but then revert back to a looser standard during typical daily-driving.
Last edited by mmarshall; 08-27-16 at 09:37 AM.
08-27-16, 08:40 AM
#462
Lexus Fanatic
Last edited by mmarshall; 08-27-16 at 08:45 AM.
08-27-16, 10:34 AM
#463
Lexus Fanatic
If you buy a car new car in MD and try to title it in DC or VA you will have to have it inspected first. In VA and DC all new cars on their lots are already inspected.
Cars I've bought in VA I've had to scrape the inspection sticker off the windshield, same on a car I bought in WV one time.
Originally Posted by mmarshall
You have to pay the sales tax of the state you will be registered/titled in, no matter where the car is purchased. If not, it is considered tax evasion. (only the late Marion Barry could get away with it LOL) [img]images/smilies/biggrin.gif[/img]
One of the big things people don't realize is that when they move into a state from out of state, often they have to pay sales tax on their car's value even if they've owned it for many years...
Yes....that is correct. I thought I made that clear in my post....if not, that's what I intended.
One thing to realize is different states have different rules about junk fees. In MD doc fees are limited to $150. In VA, there is no limit. Many times I have negotiated a better deal in VA just to find they want to add a $500 doc fee or something on top which negates the savings.
Last edited by SW17LS; 08-27-16 at 10:38 AM.
08-27-16, 10:38 AM
#464
Lexus Fanatic
WRONG. I don't know what the laws are in Toronto, but the State of Virginia requires a safety-inspection on even a brand-new car....which is good for one year, when another inspection is required....annually, each year. New vehicles arriving at VA dealerships, as soon as they roll off the transporter, are inspected, PDI'ed, and a sticker placed on the windshield. In fact, a new vehicle at a VA dealership cannot legally be taken on a customer test-drive without a sticker in the windshield...a cop can ticket it (and, if the car is still unsold, the dealership is responsible for paying the ticket). A couple of times, when I've been waiting to review something, and it wasn't in stock and just came in off the transporter, to save time, I've helped the guys PDI the vehicle myself (even though I don't formally work at a dealership, it's a routine I know well)...while the safety-techs did the actual inspection and out the sticker on.
As for emissions, the state, in some areas, DOES require certification...especially California, with its complex CARB requirements. But, with a new car, in Virginia, it is automatically assumed to pass, and not usually given a separate test when brand-new unless something is visibly wrong, like white, blue, or black smoke coming out the tailpipe (not to be confused with water/steam condensation, which is normal on a cold engine with a catalyst). The first formal test (in parts of the Virginia where the EPA requires it, like in the traffic-choked D.C. region), is given after two years, then every two years thereafter.
BTW, not that I'm excusing the company's actions (which I don't), but laws like that are one reason why VW programmed their diesels to pass the tests when new or being routinely re-tested, but then revert back to a looser standard during typical daily-driving.
As for emissions, the state, in some areas, DOES require certification...especially California, with its complex CARB requirements. But, with a new car, in Virginia, it is automatically assumed to pass, and not usually given a separate test when brand-new unless something is visibly wrong, like white, blue, or black smoke coming out the tailpipe (not to be confused with water/steam condensation, which is normal on a cold engine with a catalyst). The first formal test (in parts of the Virginia where the EPA requires it, like in the traffic-choked D.C. region), is given after two years, then every two years thereafter.
BTW, not that I'm excusing the company's actions (which I don't), but laws like that are one reason why VW programmed their diesels to pass the tests when new or being routinely re-tested, but then revert back to a looser standard during typical daily-driving.
Why would you have to safety and emissions test a vehicle with 1 mile on the vehicle that has never been titled yet?
08-27-16, 10:42 AM
#465
Lexus Fanatic
Have you checked the requirements recently? Any new vehicle that is being titled for the first time along with the Manufacturers certificate are exempt.
Why would you have to safety and emissions test a vehicle with 1 mile on the vehicle that has never been titled yet?
Why would you have to safety and emissions test a vehicle with 1 mile on the vehicle that has never been titled yet?
It depends on the state.
Check it out:
http://www.vsp.state.va.us/Safety.shtm
New vehicles purchased in Virginia that have been inspected in accordance with an inspection requirement of the manufacturer or distributor are not required to undergo the initial annual safety inspection. Placement of an inspection sticker on the windshield of a vehicle will be at the automobile dealer’s option. Such inspection by the automobile dealer shall be deemed to be the first inspection for meeting the purpose of § 46.2-1158 Code of Virginia. However, these vehicles must be reinspected within twelve months of the month of the first inspection or purchase and at least once every twelve months thereafter and display a valid inspection decal. If an inspection sticker is not placed on the windshield by the manufacturer or distributor, the owner should maintain documentation within the vehicle to show when the vehicle was purchased and to serve as a reference for future requirements for inspection.
While the new language in Section 46.2-1158.01 states that “an inspection sticker may be affixed to the vehicle as required by Section 46-2-1163.”, for several practical reasons, an approval sticker should be affixed to the vehicle. The reasons are as follows:
If a vehicle is purchased out-of-state and then registered in Virginia, it must be inspected once it is registered in this state.
While the new language in Section 46.2-1158.01 states that “an inspection sticker may be affixed to the vehicle as required by Section 46-2-1163.”, for several practical reasons, an approval sticker should be affixed to the vehicle. The reasons are as follows:
- Once the purchaser drives the vehicle off the lot, it no longer meets the definition of a new vehicle as defined in Section 46.2-1500 of the Code of Virginia. Not if, but when the purchaser is stopped by law enforcement for not displaying an inspection sticker, and returns to the selling dealership for a sticker, the vehicle will be subject to an official state inspection like any other used vehicle. This obviously could lead to customer dissatisfaction.
- The affixing of the sticker to the new vehicle will prevent the vehicle from being unnecessarily stopped by law enforcement.
- In the absence of a sticker, there will be no visual reminder to the driver when the vehicle needs to be re-inspected. If the vehicle is not re-inspected as required by Section 46.2-1157 of the Code of Virginia, the operator would be subject to a traffic summons.
If a vehicle is purchased out-of-state and then registered in Virginia, it must be inspected once it is registered in this state.
The dealership (the distributor) performs the inspection prior to the vehicle being sold.
Then pay attention to the second part: Once the purchaser drives the vehicle off the lot, it no longer meets the definition of a new vehicle as defined in Section 46.2-1500 of the Code of Virginia. Not if, but when the purchaser is stopped by law enforcement for not displaying an inspection sticker, and returns to the selling dealership for a sticker, the vehicle will be subject to an official state inspection like any other used vehicle. This obviously could lead to customer dissatisfaction. The affixing of the sticker to the new vehicle will prevent the vehicle from being unnecessarily stopped by law enforcement.
In short, in VA new vehicles must be inspected, its just that the dealer's PDI process and the inspection process are the same thing.
Mike lives in VA, you don't.
Last edited by SW17LS; 08-27-16 at 10:53 AM.