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I wouldn't worry too much about V6 TT, because V6 TT is going to be the industry standard, just like the in-line four turbo.
The biggest Achilles heel for 5LS & sales will be its Nissan Infiniti like rear quarter styling.
Also, watch out for President Akio's sporting suspensions & its effects on ride & refinement.
When Pres Akio entered TMC in 2009, we just had the GFC, with Camry accelerator pedal & earthquake to come.
All Pres Akio had to do was to stay calm, and problem solve as it comes.
If it ain't broke, don't fix it!
Instead, Pres Akio chose to totally revamp TMC.
Some of those changes have been good, but others not so good.
Life is never perfect; we must take the dirt with the gravy...
It wasn't particularly broken, just stale.
I'm happy that Akio stepped in and injected some sportiness into the new Lexus.
That's what got me back into a 4th gen GS, now an NX, and looking forward to the LS and LC.
Here's an interesting thought about the 5LS and the V6. What if what is so groundbreaking is that there isnt available V8 power? Much like the LS never had a V12 option when it's competitors did...interesting way of looking at it.
On another note my mom was over tonight and for grins I showed her a couple of the YouTube videos of the LS. She's 70, and she has a history with the LS because that's what my dad drove. She always thought they were kind of boring but appreciated them for what they were. She LOVED the 5LS, went on and on about how beautiful it was. Interesting.
I am not a fan of this car's styling and really after looking at the pics, nothing is going to change that. Today, I saw a nice deep blue Infiniti M56 in a parking lot where I had parked for a coffee at a Starbucks and I was struck by that rear 3/4 view and just how much the LS500 looks like that car. Why would you pay for a new car that looks like an old car?
Who's going to pay $85K - 95K for a car that looks like that.
You're supposed to come up with something new styling wise when you're a global corporation that's competing at this level with all the resources, engineering and talent at your disposal. Really, Kia and Hyundai were smart. They at least outsourced styling to the Germans in a way by hiring them. Toyota could have done the same thing with this car.
It will be reliable and people will brag it up forums but it has a problem. It may become an M56 and that's a sad end to a legacy of beautiful LS400's before Akio ever got a hold of the idea that his crayons needed oddball styling cues.
This week the S class Benz debuted its latest version at the Consumer Electronics Show in Las Vegas. They showed off the car that is the benchmark and its autonomous drive tech. If you want value in this category you can buy a G90, you want snob appeal get the Benz or find a deal on the Bimmer. Audi will refresh the 8 soon enough. This car won't even hit the streets until later this year. The Germans already have a large lead now on this car. How many can you sell if you don't even have them on the lot?
You're supposed to come up with something new styling wise when you're a global corporation that's competing at this level with all the resources, engineering and talent at your disposal.
Really, Kia and Hyundai were smart. They at least outsourced styling to the Germans in a way by hiring them. Toyota could have done the same thing with this car
There's really only so many ways to design a sedan..
Why, so we can have more German looking cars? No thanks, I applaud Lexus and Cadillac for their unique styling.
What was wrong with the styling of the 4LS below which debuted in 2007 with 35,000 S Class-thumping buyers?
If it ain't broke, don't fix it.
So shouldn't President Akio have simply "evolved" 5LS styling with spindle grill overtones, and thereby preserving the traditional traits of LS?
Rather than totally revolutionising LS styling, and then having to come up with all kinds of excuses as to why 5LS won't sell as well as 4LS, when 2006 S Class debuted with 30k units, while the recent 2014 S Class debuted with 25k units? http://www.goodcarbadcar.net/2011/01...s-figures.html
The 2IS 3IS debate was particularly bad three years ago (kind of how when a new kid is born, the older ones feel displaced somewhat), but as you said, people get over it.
Welcome to the rumble 5LS!
Second child syndrome maybe...
Yea they're all bad, its pretty predictable, especially after the radical design shift in every model. I believe some called it for the 5LS and I'm pretty sure I did as well. 4RX was bad also but Im seeing more men in the Lexus RX than ever before and they're mainly getting the F-Sport (surprise surprise) and the women tend to be in the standard trim. The latest 4GS refresh ate it pretty bad too on CL but to be honest, I see a relatively balanced ratio of standard to F-sport. Something is up with Lexus' new design language and its not the styling, its likely increased average sales per unit since people are adding F-sport packages worth thousands more than base MSRP and then add options on top of that.
Lexus did it on purpose folks, they're sacrificing the older buyer demographic for a younger buyer base. Cant really blame them though, they see the writing on the wall. Adapt or die.
What was wrong with the styling of the 4LS below which debuted in 2007 with 35,000 S Class-thumping buyers?
If it ain't broke, don't fix it.
So shouldn't President Akio have simply "evolved" 5LS styling with spindle grill overtones, and thereby preserving the traditional traits of LS?
Rather than totally revolutionising LS styling, and then having to come up with all kinds of excuses as to why 5LS won't sell as well as 4LS, when 2006 S Class debuted with 30k units, while the recent 2014 S Class debuted with 25k units? http://www.goodcarbadcar.net/2011/01...s-figures.html
I'm gonna agree here. If it can't match the recent debut of the 2014 S Class with 25K units, then this will be a big fail. We waited 10 LONG DAMN years for this 5LS to arrive. It better be a home run as this design will be around for another 10 years. Achieving close the the 2014 S Class sales volume might save them some respect. But it's go big, or go bust with their design choice. People will make excuses like how there aren't as many engine choices or options vs the S Class. Well in that case, GIVE US THE DAMN OPTIONS for different engine choices please. Why are they holding back and not releasing it now? They had all the time to do this and they simply didn't? Lexus is late to the party with their 5LS and they know this. Not offering all the choices up front on a launch model year down right makes no sense. Pricing is key here like many have mentioned, but I think they will miss the mark given their recent pricing strategy of trying to compete with the Germans.
This car won't hit dealers until the end of 2017, so there is plenty of time for Lexus to announce many things before then. Until then, discuss away.
I get that this is a Lexus forum and we're all die hard Lexus fans, but the amount of backlash on here is quite amusing. Let's not even talk about other forums, because they downright think the new 5LS is terrible.
It's just that the LC coupe had such a beautiful ****.
And the LF-FC sedan had a reasonably beautiful rear quarter too.
In an anticlimax - extremely surprized to have the 5LS rear quarter look "worse" than a Nissan Infiniti or Hyundai Genesis!
Even more shocking how some forum members can perceive the new 5LS rear quarter view as beautiful.
President Akio might be trying just too hard to make TMC stand out in styling?
Not sure what the unattractive rear will do to the forthcoming 5LS sales?
Theoretically, 5LS could still sell like hot cakes.
On the otherhand, if sales go down, then company profits will go down too.
However, in truth, sales makes NO difference to the buyer, owner and driver.
I've owned lots of bad or low volume selling products before.
As long as the buyer/owner/driver is happy with what he/she has, then all is well.
Stuff it if 5LS doesn't sell; if 5LS does sell, then that's a bonus.
TMC may be worried, but not us...
I get that this is a Lexus forum and we're all die hard Lexus fans, but the amount of backlash on here is quite amusing. Let's not even talk about other forums, because they downright think the new 5LS is terrible.
I think the 5LS has many fans (one shall remain unnamed) who probably don't get all the fuss. I will say that even the naysayers will mostly come around after seeing the car in person and experiencing the luxurious interiors. The pricing will be key, and offering only RWD/AWD and not other (V6/V8 or SWB/LWB) options could shrink the clientele.
As for the other forums (which ones, BMW, MB?) bashing the 5LS, I think they are running scared ! I think the 5LS will do fine.
I think people also have to realize that this is a business, and that Toyota plans to make money with the new LS.
The S Class has more variants and engine choices because Mercedes can make that profitable, because they play on a much wider field than Lexus. The largest market for the LS is the US, the car doesn't sell much at all anywhere else. The S Class is sold and respected all over the world. When the segment has dropped to where the top performer in the US is doing 1400 units a month, how can we expect them to make all of these engine options work and equipment options work?
I find the new LS's side profile to be pretty ugly but I like the front and rear end. The Infiniti look in the rear window shape kills it for me. The interior is great and I think the V6 is good too. I would like to see a V8 introduced as the Germans have always offered multiple engine options in the flagship models. I think a more powerful version of the IS-F 5.0 V8 engine would be a nice option with the V6 being standard.
I will say that I love the way the current LS looks and will get that in a few years. I was hoping for a more attractive car considering how good the LC500 looks.
This new LS seems nice in many ways but I prefer the styling of the previous four generations of the LS.
I think people also have to realize that this is a business, and that Toyota plans to make money with the new LS.
The S Class has more variants and engine choices because Mercedes can make that profitable, because they play on a much wider field than Lexus. The largest market for the LS is the US, the car doesn't sell much at all anywhere else. The S Class is sold and respected all over the world. When the segment has dropped to where the top performer in the US is doing 1400 units a month, how can we expect them to make all of these engine options work and equipment options work?
Well, if Lexus is depending on the US market for the 5LS's success, then that's all the more reason that they offer various options to please a broad base, and TMC has to back it up with its financial muscle. Otherwise, wouldn't the flagship die a slow death? The V8 option would be a no-brainer. They could also do a Genesis and offer most of the bells and whistles in the "base" model and have only 1-2 upgrades, aside from an F-sport. Then a 80-85K base price would be palatable and popular.
01-13-17, 07:24 PM
! I think the 5LS will do fine.
