pman6

merc has the customers. they have the sales.
they can be reckless with the number of models under the brand.

lexus builds a convertible... no one buys it.
Can you see why the bean counters would reject any more convertibles?
It would be a waste.

The IS-C was a complete failure

convertible customers make up a tiny market anyway. Certainly doesn't pay the bills.

sears1234

You are right, but Toyota doesn't have enough and qualified software engineers to build something upon it unfortunately.
If Toyota still use its in-house software engineers to develop its system, you can see the gap between Lexus and German bigger and bigger.

Hoovey689

iTrader: (16)

The RC was made with a convertible in mind (mixture of 4GS, 3IS, IS-C chassis), but eventually the concept LF-C2 project was canned Too bad considering what a looker the LF-C2 was compared to the dowdy IS-C.

mmarshall

Gorgeous color. Reminds me of the old Volvo Saffron color back in the mid-late 90s, which they used on their 1Gen C70 coupe.


Now, folks, THAT's a TRUE gold color. What many automakers CALL gold, today, is actually an (IMO) dull or ugly shade of tan, beige, Ecru, or Champaigne,

MattyG

A very busy front end. Almost BMW like from the side profile. It would be nice if Toyota/Lexus could look outside their usual styling cues.

What's with the "aggression-obsession" on front ends these days? Are you planning on gulping up and eating everything in the road ahead of you with these "huge' grills and "stylistically" eating up every other driver who sees this big gigantic maw coming up from behind them?

My0gr81

QNX has 2 streams, controls and infotainment. Blackberry moved a bunch of developers to Ford to focus on infotainment integration for Ford with an arrangement to share learning back. Toyota has their own staff dev doing infotainment integration, but then leverages QNX knowledge base. It's a stretch to say Toyota's infotainment software is the same as Ford's. It uses the same OS, but it is different.

Toyota's decisions to restrict smartphone integration to bluetooth audio profile is starting to be vindicated as even the NHTSA is now asking the smartphone companies to implement "driving mode" to restrict usage when active.

mmarshall

That's the trend nowadays....aggression in styling, grilles, suspensions, wheels/tires, and sport-seats. The manufacturers think that that is the way to market to young people (which, in fact, is not always the case). But that is what the marketers and product-planners have convinced themselves of.

BoDarville

the funny thing about this site is that the so-called moderators will allow a comment like yours to stand, but if i respond in any like manner my reply will be deleted and i will receive a PM warning (for responding). suffice it to say, i am not impressed by your unscientific YouTube video retorts, nor your rationale that a 2017 model lexus should only be compared against 2006 competitor vehicles simply b/c lexus is choosing to utilize the same drivetrain dating back to that period. feel free to get angry and call me some derogatory names, for i can only assume it is somehow permissible for you to do so.

riredale

I'm coming late to this thread but I, too, have been critical of the spindle. Got my hair cut yesterday and was reading an R&T that had a brief article about a new Lexus. In the back of the issue was commentary by one of the magazine greybeards that noted that he hated the spindle and couldn't think of any of his peers who liked it. He said the spindle was the direct result of the CEO (Akio Toyoda) wanting to make the cars look radically different. Guess he got his wish.

I bought my first Lexus (RX450h) last October and specifically looked for an older model with a more conventional grille, settling for a 2010. Wonderful car, great technology, great looks, and I plan to drive it for many years.

If Mr. Toyoda were to ask for my advice, I'd suggest offering, IMMEDIATELY, a bumper option on the options list, one being the current grille and the other being a more-conventional full bumper, the argument being that some folks liked the aggressive posture of the former while others liked the greater protection of a conventional bumper. When I was in college back in 1969 I had a poster in my dorm room of the new Chevy Camaro with the split bumper in front. I thought it looked great, but most cars went out with the full bumper, probably for the same reason.

So please, Lexus, make a full front bumper an option and this issue disappears.



EDIT: In exchange for my terrific idea, Mr. Toyoda, I would like a royalty of just one-tenth of one percent of Lexi sold with the larger bumper. A win-win for both of us.

SW17LS

I would ask though, if the bumper design on the RX is such an issue, why are RX sales stronger now that they have the spindle grille? Why should they offer an option when sales of their design are up?

mmarshall

IMO (and I stress that this is merely my own observation and conclusion, not necessarily fact), the reason RX sales are up despite the spindle-grille is that the RX has always been extremely popular, many owners have a high loyalty factor to the RX despite its tough competition from several other luxury SUX-makers (MDX, X5, Q5, XT5, MKX, etc.....), and that they were so pleased with previous RX models that they are willing to overlook the controversial grille. The same can be said, to an extent, for the Lexes ES, whose large sales numbers have continued despite a similar but somewhat smaller spindle grille. How these two vehicles, would have sold without the spindle-grille, of course, is anyone's guess.....probably beyond the scope of this thread, or even forum.

I myself felt the same way when I did my full-review of the new RX. I wasn't thrilled with the grille or floating D-pillar roofline, but I was impressed enough with the vehicle's road manners and general overall level of comfort (far better than the NX on both counts) that, had I been in the market for one, I would have (probably) overlooked the controversial styling touches myself. Heck, when I bought my Verano, I didn't particularly like Buick's waterfall grille (which they are now replacing on their newest models)...but I certainly didn't let the grille stop me.

SW17LS

Sales are up, bottom line. The ultimate measure of the markets reaction to a product is sales. More people buy the spindle cars than the pre-spindle cars, bottom.line.

I think it's a hard argument to make people are spending this sort of money on a car they think is ugly.

mmarshall

Well, I'm not sure it's that hard of an argument. We see people here, every day, here on Car Chat, either taking home new vehicles or otherwise seriously interested in them, despite their dislikes for certain features on those vehicles, including styling. With a lot of people, function is more important than form....if the vehicles meets their needs, they are willing to overlook even some things on it that might be an eyesore.

Torii, for example, just took home a new NX F-Sport, in case you didn't see the update to his small-SUV thread.

LexBob2

I don't care for the spindle grill and really don't care for the exterior styling of the RX and NX. But, we all know that Lexus is going after a different demographic with the new styling language and sales indicate that it is working. There's no getting around it. It was a somewhat risky move on their part, but it is working.

mmarshall

Yes, in plain numbers, it is working (which, for the bottom line, is obviously the objective). But what we are trying to come to a consensus on is WHY it is working. There, opinions seem to differ.

It also worked for Audi, of course, when that company shed the old small-rectangular grilles above the front bumpers for the much larger trapezoidal grilles.