nthach

<br />Ford tried to pass the MKT as the replacement for the Town Car, even calling the limo/livery optioned one the MKT Town Car but it was a flop - limo companies here just bought Cadillac CTS/ATS or even the ES300h. <br />

LexBob2

Most of the reps at auto shows these days work for third party firms and they work the car show circuit each year. Around here some sales reps from local dealerships work a few hours at the show too.

LOWFAST

Yep, they are not running it up the chain to Bill Ford when someone lays out business plan and product ideas at the show. Most just stare right through the back of your head until you shut up and leave. They have no vested interest and don't give a damn if Lincoln sells one or million, its just a gig for a check. You are wasting your time if you think any different.

SW17LS

As for the MKT Town Car being a flop, you've clearly never been to NYC. They are EVERYWHERE.

mmarshall

I'm well-aware of that LOL. I was just saying what I did for the record.....that sometimes talk is futile.

That's one of the traditional problems at the D.C. show.....the auto companies don't have high-enough ranking reps there to take input like they do at the Detroit and L.A. shows, despite the fact that the D.C. area is an enormous new car market....one of the largest. They rely on the so-called "Product-Experts", some of whom are quite intelligent, but others just wearing a uniform and/or silver badge that seems to mean little or nothing.



It never sold in anywhere near Town Car numbers.

SW17LS

Its like having suggestions for a company, walking in to the door and voicing them to the janitor. The company didn't "not listen to you" and talk is not "futile", you were just talking to somebody who had no authority to make any changes.

Another example is voicing an opinion to your congressperson by talking to their secretary's dry cleaner. Pointless.

This is an old argument, but first of all, the MKS was not a replacement for the Town Car. The MKS and the Town Car were sold alongside each other for years. Lincoln has no replacement for the Town Car, even the Continental is not really a replacement, its a lot smaller, FWD vs RWD, the Town Car was a car from an era that simply will never come again, body on frame construction, etc. The MKS was a replacement for the Continental.

Town Car sales:



MKS Sales:



As you can clearly see, demand for the Town Car was steadily decreasing, so this idea that theres some huge market not being served because Lincoln no longer has the Town Car is not really accurate. Its an average of about 12,000 units a year the TC was doing in its last 4 years of production.

What is interesting is the dramatic drop the TC took between 2007 and 2008 that it never recovered from. What was the story with that? Can't be a coincidence that 2008 was the first year of the MKS...those TC buyers buying the MKS? Thats a likely explanation.

But as you can see, the MKS actually outsold the TC during the time they co-existed.

bitkahuna

iTrader: (20)

^^^ nice analysis.

wasn't that the time of $5 gas?

SW17LS

As of the financial collapse in general, which you wouldn't expect to impact the Town Car as much as say a higher end vehicle without as much fleet saturation. Flagship luxury sedans took a dip around that year they never recovered from also.

mmarshall

Yes, that was one of the factors...but there were several others as well.

I wasn't arguing otherwise. What I DID say was that talk sometimes is pointless. And, yes, it is true that higher-ranking auto execs should probably get around to more shows than just Detroit (and sometimes L.A.). Even over and above auto sales themselves, the whole industry, for example, is regulated here in D.C.

This is partially but not entirely true, despite the chart. After the MKS was introduced, it wasn't really sold alongside the TC in a showroom-manner. TC's became increasingly difficult for the general public to get, as it basically became a special-order or fleet-sale car for the limo/executive-car services and funeral homes. So, from public point of view (which is usually the way we discuss the market here in Car Chat), the public's fervor the MKS never was what it was for the TC...but the problem is that they couldn't get new TCs any more because of the marketing restrictions. I looked into the possibility of getting a new TC myself at the time, knowing that it would be the last of the big American V8, full-frame luxury cars...but even by then they had become difficult for the public to order). Cops and taxi companies, BTW, faced the same dilemma with the TC's brother Crown Vic...their ability to even special-order them dried up after a while.

Anyhow, we can argue all night about the TC (and sometimes have LOL) ....but, like it or not, it's gone....that can't be undone. I will stand by my statement, though, that in my strong opinion, the Continental is probably what the TC's replacement should have been if Ford were going to dump the V8, full-frame, RWD layout (which it did with the TC's demise). You have criticized the Continental's FWD V6 layout several times (and, of course, you're entitled to that view).......but, at the same time, you acknowledge that it was time for Ford to do something different. IF the new Continental had been V8 and RWD, it would have been pretty much the same as the larger TC...except maybe with unibody instead of a full-frame. Even the rival Cadillac CT6, which DOES have RWD in base form, still lacks the V8....and, IMO, has a ridiculous base engine for that class of car.

I WILL , however, say one thing for both the MKS and the new Continental......they, at least, offer the AWD option that the TC never had. The TC could be a handful on slippery roads, despite its relatively heavy weight. Most of the weight, even with RWD, was up front with that big heavy engine....away from the drive wheels. Yes, in that one area, the MKS and Continental are both an advancement.

SW17LS

The statement "the Town Car and the MKS were sold alongside each other for several years" is 100% true. For 4 years actually.

I also wouldn't ever say the public had a "fervor" for the Town Car lol.

mmarshall

Again, it depends on how you define (sold). Restricting a vehicle to special-order and or fleet-sale status is not my idea (or probably that of most people) of being on sale. Perhaps you look at it that way....I disagree. My idea of a car being available to the public is not having it simply limited to certain buisness or law enforcement.

I also disagree on that one. No, it didn't sell much to young people (though I liked cars like that when I was a kid), but it was very popular with the retirement crowd...along with the Cadillac DeVille/DTS, Buick Lucerne, Lexus LS and ES, and, (for those who could afford one LOL)....the Mercedes S-Class. The Town Car and DTS were also the very definition of the American-market limo/executive car business.....even as far up as the White House LOL.

SW17LS

It was not restricted to fleet sales. They were for sale in dealerships.

Never a fervor. Did you ever have to wait for a Town Car? Ever have to order one just to get one? No. Selling well and there being a "fervor" are different things. Town Cars were always stocked on the lot and sold on the lot at good discounts.

Wandl

I worked for a *major* rental car company and graduated to their sales team in the mid-2000s....lots of customers but had one customer stand out because he was trading in a 06 Taurus....that he bought NEW. I was surprised that people still paid almost $20k for a brand new Taurus (MSRP ~$23k for the SEL, CD player was an option), when at that time we were selling 6-month old models for $13k with 20k miles on them. But yes, dealerships do carry a lot of these fleet cars in stock.

Somewhat unrelated - a friend of mine with 5 kids (1 set of triplets, 1 set of twins) tried buy a new Mercedes Sprinter van...was told they only sell to businesses and he had to be a business to purchase those. A minivan doesn't work because with car seats & gear for 5 kids was a tight squeeze; he ended up buying the Nissan variant of the passenger van.

AJT123

This car is a hit. I live in a pretty conservative area where most people with cash to spend drop big bucks into SUVs, not sedans, and I keep seeing more and more of these. They look amazing. They're not the cheapo-trim models either.

Haven't seen one CT6.

SW17LS

I see CT6s all the time and rarely see a Conti