Gronemus

So I take it that the tensioner bolts also help attach the oil pump to the block?

On the second picture that shows the tensioner with the bolts inserted it appears to me that the threads on both of those bolts are the same pitch unlike what is shown in the picture of just the two bolts. Strange.

Lets assume that one bolt did strip out and was replaced with that larger bolt (not by any means that I would be happy with that). Why then, would you need a new oil pump because of that? Is the oil pressure not within spec at this time? Is this the root cause for the tapping noise that you are hearing?

Hang tough...

02Legend

iTrader: (3)

The two bolts that are inserted through the tensioner is what was supposedly installed when the dealer took it off (2nd pic). In the first pic, it was used for reference from the dealer as I was told it should have been 2 of the smaller size bolts. Which would make sense considering they are shoulder bolts and do not thread through the tensioner itself.

That's exactly why I finally called the dealer back to ask (still waiting on my buddies call back from the tech). It does/will not affect the pump in anyway nor does it contribute to the noise, from what I was told. The service writer wanted me to know, and the actual mechanic working on my car at the dealer recommended changing it out as he is worried about the metal integrity now having been drilled out and retapped (all I'm seeing is $$$). I am tempted to book a last minute flight to fly back home this weekend to talk in person.

2KHarrier

So sorry to read through all this. It's a shame that you are having to deal with this idiocy through the phone...

jimisbell

OK, I just bought my 04 and it has 51K on the clock. Driven its entire life by a little old lady to and from down town on a 22mile freeway drive. She drove fast, but not high acceleration or racing stuff.

I take it the recommended replacement time is 90K for the timing chain. Is there any forwarnings of trouble, like chain rattle?

I have the talent, but does it take any special tools to DIY?

I guess buying the "kit" now might be a good idea. But I will probably put under 10K a year on the car so it will be 4 to 5 years before I hit 90K

rkw77080

LS430 has a timing belt, not a chain. Mileage and age are the 2 factors used to determine if a new belt is needed.

jimisbell

So its over due by about 4 years!!!

rkw77080

Rubber belt can suffer dry rot and fail. Since the LS430 has an interference engine, timing belt replacement may be a worthwhile investment for the peace of mind.

Gronemus

Unfortunately, that's all that dealer is seeing at the moment too...

hoye0017

Legend02,
I want to preface my info below with this grain of salt: I would always trust the dealer technician over some guy on the internet. With that out of the way, here comes the guy-on-the-internet's take:

A. Those bolts do not actually do anything relevant to the oil pump at all. The oil pump has the tensioner mounting point as part of it's casting but it has zero to do with the pump's function. Having recently worked with that mounting point, and judging the size of the bolts in your pics, I would not personally be concerned about the metal's integrity.

B. I imagine that a Lexus technician's perspective is to only trust anything in OEM spec. Anything outside of OEM spec is bad and needs to be corrected. As a dealer technician, this is the right perspective to have. They are trained to give you the safest, most conservative advice. So if I was a Lexus technician, I would give you the same advice he did and I would laugh about the opinion of the-guy-on-the-internet.

I'm sorry you're having to deal with all of this. It sounds brutal. Why are they taking the belt off anyway? Are they going to remove the head to take a look at the valves? I imagine they could inspect the timing without tearing it down that far, right?

02Legend

iTrader: (3)

I noticed that after looking up photos to see exactly where it is mounted to the pump itself just so I had the information when talking to the dealer. The dealer did say that there would not be an issue putting it back together they way it is now. It was their recommendation to replace it since it was modified, etc.

They are taking the belt off in order to pull apart the passenger side to check the valves since that is where the tapping/ticking noise is coming from after my buddies shop changed the timing belt.

jimisbell

1) I wonder how many actual failures there have been and at what mileage? So far I see people saying they did the replacement and the belt looked like new.

2) The belt "dry rotting" would seem unlikely when it is inside the engine, not like a fan belt that is exposed to Ozone.

3) .I have seen quoted prices for a used engine at under $1000. Does it make sense to spent $1400 to have it replaced (on my car with 51,000 miles on the clock) to save a $1000 engine?

On a side note: I once bought a 1962 Mercedes with a "frozen engine" for $50, paid $20 to have it towed home. I decided the first thing to do was to pull the head and soak the cylinders in solvent to try to free it up. After pulling the head I found the engine was not "frozen" at all ! ! An idiot mechanic had worked on it and removed the head but on replacing the head did not set up the timing chain correctly and when he tried to start it the engine rotated just a few degrees and lambed a piston against a valve with NO DAMAGE except that the engine would not turn one more degree. I re timed the chain and started the engine on the first turn.

Johnhav430

02 I went back to look and your car is an '06 with 83k, essentially the same as mine was (86,xxx, also '06). Did they return the old parts to you, and were there two extra bolts (original smaller ones)? This all goes back to when I was 17 and going to college in the fall, I worked for a realtor driving a 3/4 ton pickup collecting scrap from new home sites. One day I backed into and bent a wheelbarrow, a nice one, contractor grade. So I figured I'd be gone end of August, and stuffed it into the back of a huge shed thinking he'd never find it. He did, and gave me a lecture. I got the same lecture the next summer when I broke something and hid it in a print shop. I feel that that shop retapping and using larger bolts is unacceptable, whether it worked, or didn't. They acted like I did when I was a teen, covering up my mistake. Definitely I would file a complaint with DMV and ask for all my money back, plus whatever the Lexus dealer is charging. See you in small claims....then I do the Yelp and BBB thing too.

Now there were two timing belt jobs per se since the dealer had to look and see what was done. Hope they get the valve issue resolved. Your motor is 83k miles young, this shouldn't have happened.

02Legend

iTrader: (3)

No they did not, I asked for them and they were thrown out. I was not happy about that response as normally I get my old parts back. My other independent shop, keeps all my old parts to show me and if there was ever an issue I would get a call immediately. I should have used the other shop.

I am still waiting for the shop to get back to me with what his tech says he did or didn't do.

2KHarrier

1) Admittedly, failures are rare. There are a few examples of the belt lasting 200K miles, but really, it's more for the peace of mind of knowing that the belt, and all it's ancillaries are fresh and won't fail anytime soon.
2) No ozone concerns, true, but the continual heat/cold cycles on the belt can have a negative effect, as well as any fluids that the engine may leak onto the belt. Also, rubber will deteriorate from age alone.
3) Yes, you can buy a higher mileage engine for $1000, and you'll easily spend another $1000 on parts that the new engine will need. Plugs, Timing Belt, water pump, seals, mounts, rear main seal, fuel injectors, etc. etc. etc. So it seems to me, Jim, that the easier path traveled is to replace the belt, and not the engine.


.02


Jim

nthach

Those bolts don't look right to me - Toyota always uses shouldered bolts for the timing belt tensioner assembly and the belt pulleys - they even call for a little Loctite 242/243 on the pulley bolts.

I dunno if you're willing to strain your friendship, but maybe think about taking the mechanic to small claims court?