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If you absolutely must buy or lease new then the savings is notable in the Genisis. But screw buying these things new. Let someone else eat that huge depreciation. I'm done buying new high end luxury sedans. I would personally rather have a $90k new LS or A8 for the used CPO price. Obviously, it depends on features / mileage but this is what saves you real money. On my CPO I paid 40% of 84k MSRP for a vexhile that still have about 75% life left.
If you absolutely must buy or lease new then the savings is notable in the Genisis. But screw buying these things new. Let someone else eat that huge depreciation. I'm done buying new high end luxury sedans. I would personally rather have a $90k new LS or A8 for the used CPO price. Obviously, it depends on features / mileage but this is what saves you real money.
I'm just not interested in buying used. I lease for business, and I want and am willing to pay for new cars vs used cars. The tax benefits of leasing for me means I'm paying about half what the monthly lease payment is. So essentially I'm driving an $80,000 car for about $475 a month. Used only by me. Why would I want to buy a used one for the same cost I can lease a new one for?!
I'm just not interested in buying used. I lease for business, and I want and am willing to pay for new cars vs used cars. The tax benefits of leasing for me means I'm paying about half what the monthly lease payment is. So essentially I'm driving an $80,000 car for about $475 a month. Used only by me. Why would I want to buy a used one for the same cost I can lease a new one for?!
Renting a 80k car for 3 years is not $475 a month without a rather substantial down payment. Buying a nice cpo that you will most likely have some equity in a couple years has been my choice. Or right off the bat with a large down payment. I don't lease but I understand why some do. Lease or buy new you are going to pay for that initial and biggest depreciation.
2017 LS460 advertises for $869 a month plus $4k down. Basically about $36k in 3 years. I only paid 33,4 for my CPO A8 L. At 2.9% for 3 years and 4K down, $842 a month and you own the vechile in 3 years.
You're not listening to me. I write the lease off my taxes, so essentially my cost is 1/2 the lease payment because at my income level and being self employed, my overall tax liability is about 50%. My payment is $950, 1/2 of that is $475. If I didn't have the lease to write off, I would have paid that $475 a month to Uncle Sam anyways. I don't care about owning the vehicle, 3-4 years I will want a new vehicle.
Buying used works for you and that's great, I'm not saying you're wrong I'm just saying I have no interest in buying a used car. I would rather spend more and get a new car. My business setup makes leasing new cars advantageous so it all works well for me.
Most are not self employed and cannot writeoff the vehicle. This should be clarified when debating the advantages of leasing vs buying. If you can't write the expense off it's not a smart decision to lease, imo. Dealers love to lease as they make the most money off these transactions.
Most are not self employed and cannot writeoff the vehicle. This should be clarified when debating the advantages of leasing vs buying. If you can't write the expense off it's not a smart decision to lease, imo. Dealers love to lease as they make the most money off these transactions.
When did I ever say anything about what works for me being best for anybody else? I was explaining to you why I choose to lease new cars vs buy used cars. What you choose to do is up to you. I'm glad that you're happy with your choices, but I would not be happy with those choices and thus I make different choices. I think it's funny that it's always people who buy used cars who seem to need to make people who buy or lease new cars "understand their poor choices" lol. Quite frankly, what I spend on a car is such a small % of my monthly income it really doesn't make a difference to me at all. Everybody has different situations, different goals, and different priorities. Why can't we just leave it at that? What you do works for you and what I do works for me. Case closed.
I also think you're wrong that most people who can afford these cars new aren't in a position to write them off. Many people who make the kind of income required to afford such a car new are in positions where they can itemize many different tax strategies such as expensing a vehicle as a business expense.
Most are not self employed and cannot writeoff the vehicle. This should be clarified when debating the advantages of leasing vs buying. If you can't write the expense off it's not a smart decision to lease, imo. Dealers love to lease as they make the most money off these transactions.
Exactly. I can't write of lease expense as I am a W2 employee. I always buy used or new never leases. Math doesn't add up to leasing benefit for me.
SW15LS, on my previous post I was comparing similarly equipped G90 vs LS. You have shown an example of fully loaded LS, that is like comparing apples and oranges. Base model LS is similarly equipped compared to G90 with 'Ultimate' package. Please check their website to see what is included in their Ultimate package, even though I cut and paste from their site.
Exactly. I can't write of lease expense as I am a W2 employee. I always buy used or new never leases. Math doesn't add up to leasing benefit for me.
SW15LS, on my previous post I was comparing similarly equipped G90 vs LS. You have shown an example of fully loaded LS, that is like comparing apples and oranges. Base model LS is similarly equipped compared to G90 with 'Ultimate' package. Please check their website to see what is included in their Ultimate package, even though I cut and paste from their site.
You are not correct. The G90 Ultimate is not optioned like a base LS460L, its optioned like a UL LS460L with the advanced PCS package. I spent an hour with one in person and I've gone over all the specs, and I know the packaging of the LS inside and out. Base LS460L does not have power rear seats, doesn't have rear audio or climate controls, doesn't have adaptive suspension, doesn't have radar cruise control or PCS. ALL of that tech is standard in the G90 Ultimate. Most of it is standard in the base V6 G90.
Dollar for dollar I would always choose the LS, but the bottom line is similarly equipped the G90 is much cheaper.
You are definitely right about one thing. The wealthier people get the less taxes they pay - and not deservedly. I guess that burden will continue to be on the middle class.
Leasing is usually used by a dealers to get people into cars they can't afford. This is why dealers love it and why it's the advertised as the price 90% of the time.
What dealers intend is of no consequence to me. It's a financial tool, and depending on somebody's situation it may benefit them, or it may not. What is or isn't deserving is also of no consequence to me. I take advantage of what's available, as everyone does.
I've done the math, if you're going to buy new, and you're going to replace the car sooner than every 5 years it's cheaper to lease in general. Longer than 5 years it's cheaper to buy regardless of any tax writeoffs. For me it's a no brainer because of the tax benefits.
My 2007 and 2014 LS460s were the first used cars I've ever bought. I've had more niggling little issues with both cars than I ever had with a new car. I didn't get hit with the early depreciation, though, but the Jury's still out for me. Also, I generally keep my cars for 10 years or more, favoring purchase new a little.
Buying both of my used LS's and now the Audi experience is great. On the Audi, I saved 65% off MSRP for a vechile with only 1/4th of its average lifespan used and it comes with a 2 year / 50k mile warranty. Hard to argue with that.
Roadfrog mentioned the same about G90 on the other thread. When I checked their website and configured 5.0 AWD with Ultimate package, prices tops at $72k. BTW, Ultimate package is nothing more than few things such as LED HL, VRGS steering, some other goodies. No major technology features are listed in that package. Its the only option to choose. Why so much fanfare for G90?.Am I missing something here?.
Electric Power Steering (R-MDPS) with Variable Gear Ratio (VGR)
Electronic parking brake w/ automatic vehicle hold
Material : Advanced High-Strength Steel
Full LED Headlights with Dynamic Bending Light (DBL)
22-way power driver seat with power lumbar, shoulder, and bolster adjustment
I'm realizing where your confusion is coming from, this list is not a complete list of features and equipment that you have on the G90 ultimate. The Genesis website does a poor job of really describing the vehicles long list of equipment. The "major technology features" that you are talking about are all standard on the G90, even without the ultimate package. For $68,100 you get a loaded TT V6 G90 that has radar cruise, PCS, rear seat entertainment with 4 zone climate, nappa leather, lane keep assist, multi-adaptive seating, adaptive suspension etc. An LS460L really can't be configured that way, in order to get the rear seat entertainment you have to get the UL package which gets you the power rear seats, and you can't get PCS and radar cruise on a car without the UL package.
So, the LS460L in RWD stickers with cold weather and semi-aniline leather at $82,775...but that car lacks many features that the base G90 has for $68,100 including radar cruise, PCS, lane keep assist, multi-adaptive seating (which isn't available on the LS at all) and rear seat entertainment, 4 zone climate control, adaptive suspension. So the LS460L is $14,675 more than the G90 and lacks all those features. In order to get all the features that come standard on the G90 in an LS460L you need the UL and the advanced PCS/radar cruise package which brings the MSRP to $96,635, $28,535 more than the G90 3.3T, the feature that LS has the G90 won't have in that comparison is the power reclining rear seats. Power wise the TTV6 G90 is very similar to the V8 LS460.
Moving up to the G90 Ultimate gets you the V8, which is more power than the LS460, also gets you the power rear seats for $69,700. So, a almost feature for feature exact same car as an MSRP $96,635 UL LS460 with advanced PCS which still lacks some features such as surround view camera, multi-contour front seating. Plus, the V8 Genesis has more power, a longer warranty, 3 years of free maintenance with service concierge...for $27,000 less. If we go AWD that G90 Ultimate goes to $72,200, and the LS460L goes to $99,220....maintaining the same price gap but remember AWD in the LS detunes the engine, so now the power gap with the G90 Ultimate is really significant, and is even overpowered by the V6TT G90.
These links from consumerrepots.org regarding the 2017 Genesis G90 might be behind a paywall, but I found them interesting, especially when comparing the G90 to the 2017 LS460L:
In case people who aren't CR subscribers want to see, here are the comparative metrics. Like I said when I drove the G90, clearly this car was designed 100% square on to the LS460L. If you like the LS, no reason you would not like the G90. As you can see below it shows all the optional tech that is standard on the G90, and when you see the specs, they're almost exactly the same. Even the performance specs, almost exactly the same. Remember this is the V6 G90, the V8 will be much quicker than the LS. I have also attached a PDF of the road test.
04-08-17, 08:29 AM
