Why Lexus Sedans Must Evolve to Survive (Photos)
05-09-17, 08:11 AM
#1
Why Lexus Sedans Must Evolve to Survive (Photos)
05-09-17, 05:56 PM
#2
Lexus Fanatic
Lexus has to take advantage of their low center of gravity and body style. In other words, they have to make sure their sedans drive like sport cars, while maintaining comfort.
Some Lexus sedan buyers, of course, ARE interested in sharper handling....probably not a majority, but a fair number of them. For them, there's the F-Sport package and its upgraded suspension/wheels/tires, or the full-F package with the torque-rich V8s. But leave the standard versions of the sedans to those who like softness and comfort.....no need for firmer wheels/suspensions on the base versions.
05-09-17, 08:13 PM
#3
I remember a thread where a guy bought all new poly bushings for his LS and paid someone to put them in, and then paid the same guy to take them out and put stock back in because he wanted a soft ride, not sporty.
The RX is practically a sedan now but it'll never get over the soccer mom image from the previous generation. I drove a brand new one for a couple days recently and wasn't blown away by the handling either, my stock 98 GS4 corners better. And gets 40%+ better mpg than my GX.
Sedans used to handle much differently than SUVs, but now, the Lexus RX handles just as well as any sedan on the market.
05-09-17, 08:47 PM
#4
Lexus Fanatic
The RX is practically a sedan now but it'll never get over the soccer mom image from the previous generation. I drove a brand new one for a couple days recently and wasn't blown away by the handling either, my stock 98 GS4 corners better. And gets 40%+ better mpg than my GX.
Last edited by mmarshall; 05-09-17 at 08:50 PM.
05-10-17, 06:11 AM
#5
Lexus Fanatic
iTrader: (20)
interesting quote... what i've been saying for years...
Tokua Fukuichi, Lexus Chief Branding Officer, expressed his worry regarding the future of the sedans. He says, "Unless we can really offer a sedan experience you cannot have with an SUV or crossover, I think the sedan may not be able to survive if it does not evolve." Tokua thinks that the sedans don't offer anything that the SUVs don't offer. He continued, "At a certain point of time, the traditional, square, three-box sedan will go away."
05-10-17, 06:23 AM
#6
Lexus Fanatic
I remember a thread where a guy bought all new poly bushings for his LS and paid someone to put them in, and then paid the same guy to take them out and put stock back in because he wanted a soft ride, not sporty.
The RX is practically a sedan now but it'll never get over the soccer mom image from the previous generation. I drove a brand new one for a couple days recently and wasn't blown away by the handling either, my stock 98 GS4 corners better. And gets 40%+ better mpg than my GX.
The RX is practically a sedan now but it'll never get over the soccer mom image from the previous generation. I drove a brand new one for a couple days recently and wasn't blown away by the handling either, my stock 98 GS4 corners better. And gets 40%+ better mpg than my GX.
05-10-17, 06:50 AM
#7
Lexus Champion
Yes and no. Many Lexus traditionalists are not interested in handling. Now, of course, that's not to say that they necessarily want something that plows and rolls like an old Buick Roadmaster, but for most of them, sharp handling is not an issue. They tend to drive in straight lines or mild cornering at best, and top-priority is cushiness, bump-absorption, quietness, and refinement.
Some Lexus sedan buyers, of course, ARE interested in sharper handling....probably not a majority, but a fair number of them. For them, there's the F-Sport package and its upgraded suspension/wheels/tires, or the full-F package with the torque-rich V8s. But leave the standard versions of the sedans to those who like softness and comfort.....no need for firmer wheels/suspensions on the base versions.
Some Lexus sedan buyers, of course, ARE interested in sharper handling....probably not a majority, but a fair number of them. For them, there's the F-Sport package and its upgraded suspension/wheels/tires, or the full-F package with the torque-rich V8s. But leave the standard versions of the sedans to those who like softness and comfort.....no need for firmer wheels/suspensions on the base versions.
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05-10-17, 06:59 AM
#8
Lexus Fanatic
For this type of issue, Lexus should, and likely does, have focus groups. I've only done them twice (not car related), and they paid $200, I'm sure that rate should be a lot higher today. There would be nothing worse than turning out a fleet that handled like they were MBs, and having none sell, because it wasn't what Lexus buyers wanted.
Again, just one tidbit that I notice....BMW has poor customer service, yet they leave "give us all 5's or we fail" papers on your seat, they do something wrong, you fail them with a 1 out of 5, and nothing ever comes of it. Call BMWNA, they take down all the information, and that's the end of it. POOR. Look at all the folks who are at 14 mos. later still waiting for airbags. With this being said, service is free and convenient--even if you're getting a $62 service done, you take off in a 2017 loaner.
Lexus, excellent customer service, treat you like you're a valued customer. Loaner car? That's if you want to do the timing belt and 4 shocks today to the tune of $4,500, on your 2006 car. We can get you into a RX350--see 12 of them lined up there, with a lounge that is so full, there's no place to sit?
My hunch is that all of this was researched, and both are successful in their own rights. To become like the other, is risky....
Again, just one tidbit that I notice....BMW has poor customer service, yet they leave "give us all 5's or we fail" papers on your seat, they do something wrong, you fail them with a 1 out of 5, and nothing ever comes of it. Call BMWNA, they take down all the information, and that's the end of it. POOR. Look at all the folks who are at 14 mos. later still waiting for airbags. With this being said, service is free and convenient--even if you're getting a $62 service done, you take off in a 2017 loaner.
Lexus, excellent customer service, treat you like you're a valued customer. Loaner car? That's if you want to do the timing belt and 4 shocks today to the tune of $4,500, on your 2006 car. We can get you into a RX350--see 12 of them lined up there, with a lounge that is so full, there's no place to sit?
My hunch is that all of this was researched, and both are successful in their own rights. To become like the other, is risky....
05-10-17, 07:21 AM
#9
Lexus Fanatic
I'm trying to go past mere image here, into reality. Sport-enthusiasts may dominate auto chat forums and blogs (yes, like us), but that's not necessarily the case in the real auto-buying world, where vanilla often sells.
05-10-17, 02:01 PM
#10
We need to understand that up-and-coming generations don't have the same connection with automobiles as we do. AUTONOMOUS vehicle R&D is all the rage today. Car manufacturers are betting the farm on self-driving cars. And if your car self-drives, who really cars if it is a sedan or cracker box? The research tends to support people want to be able to kick back and check their email, surf the web, or check their Apple stock portfolios while the car takes them to their destination. Dare I say the love affair with the automobile is in dire straits!!! The "majority" of new cars owners won't give a hoot about the driving experience or passion associated with driving. Only a small percentage of car enthusiasts will actually care about the drive, what they drive, and how the drive makes them feel. Autonomous technology is where we are going, and I for one don't like it. Another related point is the popularity of ride sharing; many folks don't want cars or need cars (think metro areas.) It would be cheaper to just rent a car when needed, or ride-share to your destination. As cities become more populated, the current norm of 2 cars per household will be a rarity. If we think in terms of the future, car sales will decrease. Manufacturers are scrambling to read their crystal ***** :-) and offer products to meet these future needs. The future is now.
05-11-17, 01:27 PM
#11
Lexus Fanatic
I agree with the article that Lexus sedans must evolve but disagree with some things.
For one thing the RX does not handle as good as any sedan on the market, not even close. Most sedans still handle better to much better then a RX, the RX may not be a sloppy SUV but it is still a pretty soft CUV based on a highlander.
SUV's don't offer everything sedans offer, sedans are still good looking, have nicer styling, handle better, are lighter, generally get better fuel economy, and are quicker. Sedan interiors generally have more attention to detail though SUV's are catching up.
The ES is still a very big seller for Lexus, it or the formula probably does not need to change much.
There needs to be more focus on good exterior styling and better interiors for Lexus sedans. Powerplants need to be upgraded immediately and a 4cyl option is in no way a upgrade, it is a downgrade especially when it makes the 6 cylinder price go up. Sedans should offer rear seat controls/features and rear seat entertainment systems at a more affordable price like many SUV's do.
The GS problem is it offers little above a Lexus ES aside from RWD while being roughly the same size, roughly the same performance, having more or less the same features. It needed to be distinguished much more by size, styling, luxury, and performance from the ES. They never should have dropped the V8 option from the GS and simply made it more affordable to step up to, what good is a good handling F sport GS when it is only 306-311hp and no quicker then the then base 6 cylinder and not much quicker then the ES? The expensive hybrid was not needed, the weak 4 cylinder was a big mistake. It should have been a base 6 cylinder with 306-311hp, F sport 6 cylinder with 320-330hp and then a affordable 8 cylinder option with at least 400hp, F sport 8 cylinder with 420hp would be nice. The GS should have been stretched a little to offer more room, styling should have been more different then ES like double headlights, luxury package should have been $2000 at most instead of over $5000 and standard with the V8, and no base model should have lacked heated/vented seats and some other features that should be standard at its price/level.
IS sales are pretty good but it needs to offer decent rear seating room which is why the GS needs to grow in size/rear seat room, interior quality should be higher too.
LS needed more power, better styling, and tighter handling but it is very tough to take on the German top players these days.
I think if Lexus offered a longer warranty and included free maintenance instead of gouging customers so much once the warranty is up or for maintenance it would really help Lexus compete better against the Germans. There are issues with Lexus cars still like pre mature failure of door lock actuators, suspension issues/poor designs that simply should not still be happening at Lexus they cost a arm and a leg to repair and it is unacceptable and a turn off and that is for cars as well as SUV's. Lexus needs to strive harder for reliability, durability of cars/components, and making it less painful to get the car serviced and repaired at the dealership like they did in the past to really separate themselves from the Germans.
For one thing the RX does not handle as good as any sedan on the market, not even close. Most sedans still handle better to much better then a RX, the RX may not be a sloppy SUV but it is still a pretty soft CUV based on a highlander.
SUV's don't offer everything sedans offer, sedans are still good looking, have nicer styling, handle better, are lighter, generally get better fuel economy, and are quicker. Sedan interiors generally have more attention to detail though SUV's are catching up.
The ES is still a very big seller for Lexus, it or the formula probably does not need to change much.
There needs to be more focus on good exterior styling and better interiors for Lexus sedans. Powerplants need to be upgraded immediately and a 4cyl option is in no way a upgrade, it is a downgrade especially when it makes the 6 cylinder price go up. Sedans should offer rear seat controls/features and rear seat entertainment systems at a more affordable price like many SUV's do.
The GS problem is it offers little above a Lexus ES aside from RWD while being roughly the same size, roughly the same performance, having more or less the same features. It needed to be distinguished much more by size, styling, luxury, and performance from the ES. They never should have dropped the V8 option from the GS and simply made it more affordable to step up to, what good is a good handling F sport GS when it is only 306-311hp and no quicker then the then base 6 cylinder and not much quicker then the ES? The expensive hybrid was not needed, the weak 4 cylinder was a big mistake. It should have been a base 6 cylinder with 306-311hp, F sport 6 cylinder with 320-330hp and then a affordable 8 cylinder option with at least 400hp, F sport 8 cylinder with 420hp would be nice. The GS should have been stretched a little to offer more room, styling should have been more different then ES like double headlights, luxury package should have been $2000 at most instead of over $5000 and standard with the V8, and no base model should have lacked heated/vented seats and some other features that should be standard at its price/level.
IS sales are pretty good but it needs to offer decent rear seating room which is why the GS needs to grow in size/rear seat room, interior quality should be higher too.
LS needed more power, better styling, and tighter handling but it is very tough to take on the German top players these days.
I think if Lexus offered a longer warranty and included free maintenance instead of gouging customers so much once the warranty is up or for maintenance it would really help Lexus compete better against the Germans. There are issues with Lexus cars still like pre mature failure of door lock actuators, suspension issues/poor designs that simply should not still be happening at Lexus they cost a arm and a leg to repair and it is unacceptable and a turn off and that is for cars as well as SUV's. Lexus needs to strive harder for reliability, durability of cars/components, and making it less painful to get the car serviced and repaired at the dealership like they did in the past to really separate themselves from the Germans.
05-11-17, 03:29 PM
#12
IMO, RX rides poorly compared to ES.
Not only do SUV's not handle as well as sedans, but they don't ride as well as sedans either.
I doubt sedans will become diminished in sales volume in the way of coupes like the fall and eventual disappearance of the Toyota Celica, Honda Prelude, Nissan 200SX & Mazda MX-6 etc.
Sedan sales have certainly fallen, but it will "plateau" out.
Some people even think SUV's is just a fad that will disappear, however the SUV layout actually suits electric vehicles more, because the battery pack can nicely sit under the raised floor of an SUV.
Not only do SUV's not handle as well as sedans, but they don't ride as well as sedans either.
I doubt sedans will become diminished in sales volume in the way of coupes like the fall and eventual disappearance of the Toyota Celica, Honda Prelude, Nissan 200SX & Mazda MX-6 etc.
Sedan sales have certainly fallen, but it will "plateau" out.
Some people even think SUV's is just a fad that will disappear, however the SUV layout actually suits electric vehicles more, because the battery pack can nicely sit under the raised floor of an SUV.
05-11-17, 04:55 PM
#13
The bigger faceprint of an SUV would certainly cut into range quite a bit but who knows, it could happen.
After getting the GS400 back into good running condition I'm ready to park my GX for the summer. Almost forgot how much more fun cars are to drive. Now I just need a good radar detector...
After getting the GS400 back into good running condition I'm ready to park my GX for the summer. Almost forgot how much more fun cars are to drive. Now I just need a good radar detector...
05-14-17, 08:01 PM
#14
Lead Lap
The bigger faceprint of an SUV would certainly cut into range quite a bit but who knows, it could happen.
After getting the GS400 back into good running condition I'm ready to park my GX for the summer. Almost forgot how much more fun cars are to drive. Now I just need a good radar detector...
After getting the GS400 back into good running condition I'm ready to park my GX for the summer. Almost forgot how much more fun cars are to drive. Now I just need a good radar detector...
05-14-17, 08:09 PM
#15
Lead Lap
i'm sorry but i still think there's many merits to a sedan over an SUV
they look better, handle better, ride better, are quieter and have less wind noise, accelerate and handle better at high speeds, get better efficiency, and if it's got AWD and folding rear seats then what's the problem?
they look better, handle better, ride better, are quieter and have less wind noise, accelerate and handle better at high speeds, get better efficiency, and if it's got AWD and folding rear seats then what's the problem?