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Somewhere in the universe, there is a large black hole... at the end of it is a man with a little flashlight looking for a fuse that blew... and when he put in another one and could kinda see a little more; he discovered that it was a bunch of grumpy ole guys complaining about how things used to be in the old days before the younger generation swayed styling trends and why everything needs to be restored to the time before... everything went downhill.
Civic, Accord. Why not let the eventual driver of the car decide?
Somewhere in the universe, there is a large black hole... at the end of it is a man with a little flashlight looking for a fuse that blew... and when he put in another one and could kinda see a little more; he discovered that it was a bunch of grumpy ole guys complaining about how things used to be in the old days before the younger generation swayed styling trends and why everything needs to be restored to the time before... everything went downhill.
Exactly. Just because you may not like a new style doesn't mean it's a "poor design".
Exactly. Just because you may not like a new style doesn't mean it's a "poor design".
Depends on the circumstances. There are going to be good and bad things about virtually any kind of design. All else equal, for instance, tall people are (usually) going to have more trouble with a low-topped coupe-sedan than shorter ones. That's not an opinion....that's a fact.
But that is a very small subset of people. Personally, if I were buying a car like this "prestige" would be the last thing that would ever enter my mind. What do I care what "Honda fanboys" think about my car? Sorry...I'd rather have the Civic. When the new Accord comes out I'm sure my opinion will swing back, but IMHO the current Civic is a far more compelling product than the Accord. If I were buying something in the Accord's segment I'd buy a Mazda 6. The Accord is a slightly better riding car, but I don't think they ride well in general, nor are they especially refined. I think the Civic is a lot more dynamic and interesting, while the Accord is just sort of marginal in general. The Accord is bigger, but the Civic is plenty comfortable for 2, and okay for 4.
As for the style, well if this fastback look has such a negative stigma in America, then somebody better tell virtually every carmaker...because EVERYBODY is making cars that look like this right now, and a ton of people think they are great looking, myself included. Audi, Mercedes, Lexus, Toyota, Honda, Porsche, BMW, literally everybody. I'm sorry you don't like the look, but plenty of people do, if they didn't carmakers wouldn't be styling cars that way. Look how well the new Civic sells.
I don't see a lot of people calling the Audi A7 or A5 Sportback ugly...if they're out there they're drowned out by people who think they're incredible looking.
Sorry, I think this is a great looking car for its price point:
I have to agree, that the current civic does look more appealing to my eyes vs. the current accord. However, the HID headlights makes all the differences. That's why I was saying the Civic Touring (27k) is the better car vs. the Accord Ex-L (29k)
It does fit 4 people fairly well. I set the driver seat to my driving position, and I sat in the rear behind it. Surprisingly, I have enough room and its comfortable enough for a ride. I'm almost 6ft tall.
Originally Posted by MattyG
Somewhere in the universe, there is a large black hole... at the end of it is a man with a little flashlight looking for a fuse that blew... and when he put in another one and could kinda see a little more; he discovered that it was a bunch of grumpy ole guys complaining about how things used to be in the old days before the younger generation swayed styling trends and why everything needs to be restored to the time before... everything went downhill.
Civic, Accord. Why not let the eventual driver of the car decide?
Well, the car will be hers. But the "most-of-the-time" driver will be me. lol
Depends on the circumstances. There are going to be good and bad things about virtually any kind of design. All else equal, for instance, tall people are (usually) going to have more trouble with a low-topped coupe-sedan than shorter ones. That's not an opinion....that's a fact.
Thats just the thing though, a car purchase is not 100% a utility purchase, and if it is there are a bunch of tall, ugly econobox type sedans one can buy (such as a Corolla). There is always a tradeoff between what looks good, and what is most functional. If all we cared about was function of headroom, we would all drive cars that look like this:
This is why we have choices. You have traditional 3 box sedans, and you have lower, more stylish coupe like sedans...
In reality, most of the time we're alone in our cars. I think I have had people in the back seat of my LS460 maybe 10 times in the 2 years I've had it. Even it it swoopier than the much more upright LS400 and LS430 I had. Has anybody complained about the lower roofline in the back? No.
If somebody wants a taller sedan...then they should buy a taller sedan. Its not wrong for carmakers to also build cars that people who are okay with a little style over function simply because you don't like the look of that particular style. The hundreds of thousands of people a year who like that styling and buy those cars are not "lemmings", they just like something you don't...end of story.
This decision is between what really is a traditional, mainstream sedan vehicle (the Accord) and a more youthful, more stylish, more fun option (the Civic). They're very different cars, the Accord is "better" (its larger, more comfortable, more "prestigious" [I still think thats hilarious]), but I think in its segment its an old, weak offering while the Civic is fresh and at the very top of its segment. So, I'd buy the Civic. If I really had to have something of the caliber of the Accord, I wouldn't buy an Accord.
This is why we have choices. You have traditional 3 box sedans, and you have lower, more stylish coupe like sedans...
At one time we did......but those days are almost extinct.
The best visibility and headroom I've seen (no pun intended) from a new American-market vehicle (other than a convertible with the top down) is not a sedan at all......it is arguably the Subaru Forester, with the Outback a close second. In those vehicles, function was not sacrificed to form.
In reality, most of the time we're alone in our cars.
For those like you and me, that's true. Not the case with everyone, though.
I used to own 1994 Accord 2.2, 2004 Accord 3.0 V6, and 2003 Acura TSX 2.4.
My sister has the current model Civic 1.5 Turbo.
Nice looking car.
Reasonably spacious.
Satisfactorily built. Leather stitching not the finest around. Plastics feel cheaper.
The four cylinder idles a little poorly and roughly.
At low rpm, the engine burbles, but on wide throttle openings, it revs much more smoothly.
The ride and handling are both reasonably good.
Her husband has current Accord.
The Accord is very different.
Styling is less radical, and much more classic.
Much roomier inside. Up to 1.5 sizes bigger, to accommodate for the fact that Honda does not have a full size sedan to take on the Toyota Avalon.
The engine idles much more smoothly and quietly.
There is more bottom end punch, but less top end performance.
The handling is no match for Civic, but the Accord has a better ride with noticeably longer suspension travel.
Horses for courses.
Each to their own.
Both are good cars.
Just depends what you want in a car really...
I thought of this because there was that comment about grumpy old guys or something. had a chance to talk to a so-called billionaire the other day, so I mentioned that dirty word, "millenials," basically asking again about cars. Was told yes, the daughter could have any car she wanted, it's her birthday and she's about to graduate from college. I got the answer I expected, she doesn't want one, not interested, prefers to use uber and lyft.
I dunno if my kid even qualifies as a milennial, 2013 dob. Very good chance he would not like cars, although he does play with them, that seems natural for a boy. But he also plays with Sesame Street characters.
me? I just want a stick and I can live with a 4 cyl. turbo. Already have a LS430, a 335i with a stick, and a AWD suv--and accepting that the bank account doesn't seem to be embracing any more fancy cars, times are a changin'! I had every intention of getting a 911, when I went to the 991 launch, and the autocross event. But the math isn't adding up, not even for 5-6 y.o. ones...
At one time we did......but those days are almost extinct.
Why do you think that is? That's how markets work, companies build what they perceive consumers demand. These companies are very successful, they didn't get that way by getting consumer trends wrong.
The reason we have much swoopier, more style focused sedans now throughout the industry is because of the shift towards crossovers. Consumers who care a lot about utility and viability and access are buying crossovers. Because of that carmakers have to do something to attract more style focused consumers to sedans, which is what they're doing.
I know the next thing you're going to say "if they didn't design sedans that way people wouldn't buy crossovers", there's no logical reason to assume that. Crossovers are a new phenomenon, you cant look at old trends and assume what would have happened with crossovers because they didn't exist.
For those like you and me, that's true. Not the case with everyone, though.
Look around you when you drive, it's more universally true than you think.
We are looking for a second car (for my gf), and she has her eyes on the 2017 Honda Accord EX-L (29k). However, I'm thinking the 2017 Honda Civic Touring (~27k) is a better car in terms of value.(you get more for less, minus the size of the accord).
I'm coming from a '16 IS350 FSPORT, and I feel like the Civic Touring has way more cool features than my car. Ex. CarPlay, Side mirror cameras, rear heated seats. Of course, the Lexus badge and styling is always a plus.
Anyone have insights of the car to purchase? Or any suggestions for an entry level commuter car? She doesn't want to spend more than $30k on a car.
It's a pretty personal decision.
Normally, I'd rather go with a top of the line car in a lower class vs. an entry level car in a higher class. So I'd lean toward a Civic Touring vs. an Accord LX. However (1) I do not find the Civic very attractive, and (2) you are comparing a Touring vs an EX-L, so for $2,000 extra, and still within your GF's budget, you get an upper level Accord, not an entry version. So I'd probably go with the Accord in this case.
you and SW15LS have very little in common it seems to me, he's still working, has little kids, etc.
I was refering to how we drive, though he sometimes takes clients and I don't.
obviously it's not the case with everyone or all cars would only have one seat.
Agreed.....it's been a little while since I had a car with one seat.
agreed. what i see when driving is 90%+ of vehicles on the road only have 1 person in them.
Yes......and some people, politically, can't stand that (I'm obviously not referring to you). There are those who would have vehicles as we know them used for only multi-person carpools...and have the rest of us riding bicycles LOL. But that subject, of course, is probably better-reserved for the Debate forum, not this one....so I won't go into any more of that here.
Why do you think that is? That's how markets work, companies build what they perceive consumers demand. These companies are very successful, they didn't get that way by getting consumer trends wrong.
The reason we have much swoopier, more style focused sedans now throughout the industry is because of the shift towards crossovers. Consumers who care a lot about utility and viability and access are buying crossovers. Because of that carmakers have to do something to attract more style focused consumers to sedans, which is what they're doing.
I know the next thing you're going to say "if they didn't design sedans that way people wouldn't buy crossovers", there's no logical reason to assume that. Crossovers are a new phenomenon, you cant look at old trends and assume what would have happened with crossovers because they didn't exist.
Look around you when you drive, it's more universally true than you think.
Just out of interest, we've actually had swoopy and sporty derivatives of both sedans and SUV wagons for quite some time, especially sedans.
Swoopy derivatives are not really due to SUV's, but swoopy derivatives originated on its own.
SUV's themselves come in swoopy variants sometimes called SUV 4 door coupes.
Swoopy sporty derivatives probably exist to bridge the gap between 4 door and 2 door coupes.
As early as the 1970's and 1980's, lower roof line frameless window hard top derivatives with firmer suspension were available.
For example, a 1991-95 Corolla sedan versus a JDM Corolla Sprinter Marino hardtop sharing the same platform and engines.
Below is a 1991-95 Toyota Crown, and its swoopy sporty Toyota Aristo [nee Lexus GS] counterpart sharing the same platform and engines.
Even Mercedes had the E Class vs the swoopy CLS 4 seater 4 door coupe sharing the same platform and engines.
Likewise, SUV's have their swoopy variants too.
For example the X5 and the swoopy 4 seater X6 both sharing the same platform and engines.
07-06-17, 08:23 PM
from a new American-market vehicle (other than a convertible with the top down) is not a sedan at all......it is arguably the Subaru Forester, with the Outback a close second. In those vehicles, function was not sacrificed to form.
you and SW15LS have very little in common it seems to me, he's still working, has little kids, etc.
