Hoovey689

iTrader: (16)

Source

mmarshall

Well, the space/emissions argument may be true, but I'd bet the major reason for the change is cost. Carbon-fiber is significantly more expensive than steel.

geko29

With a base price just under $70k--exactly double the price of the standard 3 series--and a fully-loaded one right at $94k, cost is not the driver here. If it were, they would never have engineered the part in the first place.

My concern is that particulate filters are the bane of modern diesels, and I expect they're probably not much better on petrol engines.

mmarshall

With all due respect, I think you're overdoing the base/list-price argument. I've seen the bean-counters hit vehicles with even six-figure prices. Not only that, but some of them can have atrocious quality control. Ironically, the most sloppily-assembled modern car I have reviewed was a blue 2008 BMW M3 coupe..

Johnhav430

I agree on the cost cutting. Having done the ABS brakes on a '07 E92, when I had the F30 loaner for months, I actually did a what if, on doing the ABS on the F car. The plastic cladding under the hood was so cheap, one woulda thought this was a Nissan Versa. Again, jmo, the best cars in general, were made somewhere 2004-2009, +/-. these imho are market forces. It was documented as the E9x progressed from 2006 to 2012, what was removed each and every year, down to no ashtray door (sure nobody smokes anymore but it leaves a hole). My colleague just test drove the M3 stick and DCT I think it was 1 1/2 wks. ago and he was underwhelmed for the price--for the price. When he brought the i3 to work he let me take it for a spin, I rather liked it but a 54k price tag is obscene--the dash looked like recycled cardboard and the gas door did not fit properly, and it was a new car.

geko29

That may be true, but if it is the case here, why go to all the trouble and expense to design the part, use it for just two model years, and than drop it, undoubtedly triggering the inevitable wailing and gnashing of teeth from the enthusiast community? Wouldn't it be both cheaper and less hassle to just never introduce the CF driveshaft in the first place?

On the flipside, have you ever actually seen a particulate filter? They're MASSIVE. Here's the one that's in my car:


For reference, that flange on the right side is a 3.5" exhaust pipe. This unit is directly attached to the low pressure side of the turbo. So the giant canister is behind and below the engine, not too far from the transmission output shaft.

4TehNguyen

iTrader: (1)

smells like cost cutting and not for emissions

Johnhav430

No, but just yesterday I saw the oil leak on my cousin's M5 (S62), what a mess. Even I was surprised when he told me OEM rotors cost him $350.

edit: The $350 was a pair, not each...whew!!

LexBob2

I didn't know the M3 & 4 had CF drive shafts so not a big deal at all that they're going away.

RXSF

^^ me neither... The writer going on to say that it is one of the M3/M4's most distinctive feature? In addition, drivers being able to notice a few extra pounds? laughable. If this is really performance driven, then BMW will find a way to reduce the weight elsewhere and use CF on another body panel

RNM GS3

This is complete BS and very disappointing as I was planning to order 2018 with CompPack.

The CF driveshaft may not be noticeable but it is superior to a steel one and how the car was originally engineered. It was also hyped and promoted to death by BMW.

Makes no sense why they are doing it now with 2 years left in this generation.
They should lower the price (which will not happen) if this is their move, since the steel part is less than half of the CF one.

Johnhav430

Wonder if the CF roof will go away, that would be very obvious, unlike a driveshaft which cannot be seen when the vehicle is parked. I think the sedan got it for the first time in '15...

ragingf80

My F80 was not cheap, but considering it is competitive with the C63, S4/RS5 models, RC-F and still ranks amongst the best in performance at a similar price point, maybe your colleague is looking at the wrong vehicle. A 1LE will give more bang for the buck, and so will a Corvette, but those are different classes of vehicles.

IN CONTRAST, the LC500 took 4.6 seconds to get to 60, while the F80 takes only 4.0 seconds. The LC500 base is $92k.

I have an i3 as well, the interior is lightweight, and while the black dash looks like paper, that's because it is a very lightweight material. Don't mistake lightweight for cheap, however, it is all done to achieve that 2800lb curb weight. The entire tub is reinforced Carbon Fiber, the interior is done in lightweight but attractive eucalyptus, the tires are exclusive to the i3 to provide the best aerodynamics while maintaining a good contact patch (skinny yet large 19's). I've not heard any complaints about my interior looking "cheap". It certainly isn't plush, but it has a minimalist functional interior:



At over $50k, it is pricey, but its also still fun to drive, it's RWD, the REx is brilliant, and it still has close to that BMW 50/50 weight distribution. There are more economical EVs out there, like the Bolt and the Volt, but after sitting in a friend's Bolt and then in my i3, the differences in driving experience is noticeable.


Back to the subject:
The M3/4 losing it's CF driveshaft is disappointing. I guess I can count myself lucky that I still have it. I'm not sure that the future hold for the M Division. The M3 was my dream car or a long time, but if the next gen M3 doesn't capture that old feeling that the M cars were known for, it might be time to move on to something that still does, like a Porsche.

RNM GS3

^
I think with Euro emissions - it will only get worse.
Rumors are new one will be AWD and Hybrid!

I test drove E92 M3 recently, that was probably last true ///M car. Values on them will be going up soon.

F80 is great and i loved mine but overall something is missing to make it great.
Although there is nothing new thats better under $100k, which is why im planning to get a 2018.