peteharvey

But notice how for example, the trapezia shaped licence recess points upwards in both Maserati & GT86, while a Lexus 3GS has the trapezia shaped licence recess pointing downwards?

Also, a 3GS's rear wheel arch & rear trunk deck shape looks nothing like Maserati Ghibil & Toyota GT86.

Aron9000

^ I can't think of a more boring looking 2 door coupe than the Subie BRZ/Toyota 86/Scion FRS. It just doesn't work for me, I'm not saying its ugly, I'm not saying its pretty, I guess I'm saying its kind of bland and uninteresting. Which is a greater sin on a 2 door sports car IMO.

That late 2000's Lexus GS is a perfect example of what I'm talking about. Did Jaguar copy Lexus with the mid-late 00's XF, or did Lexus copy Jaguar???? Either way, both cars look way too damn similar, but were styled by different people, by different companies, on different sides of the globe.


Also there are a few great standouts in design now days, maybe I didn't give the new Lexus LC500 enough credit. Its a ground-breaking design that doesn't look like anything else on the road, much in the same sense as the original SC/Soarer 25 years ago.

Also Mercedes Benz has been on a roll the past 3-4 years IMO. Love the current S-class sedan and coupe, especially the coupe. The AMG GT is a stunner as well, the discontinued SLS, can't think of another car except the Dodge Viper with such a ridiculously long hood and set back cockpit. Main thing though is Mercedes has evolved the styling on their cars, the current C, E, and S class look different from the models they replaced. You can Benz crap about all their current models looking the same, but heck at least you see the generational change and a new design language on their new cars.

BMW and Audi, they've also been using that "same sausage, different length" formula for a long time now as well. Thing is, they are so damn conservative in design changes, that their old models from the late 00's/early 10's still look like their brand new, new generation cars introduced in the last 2-3 years. At first glance its hard to tell the difference between a 2011 BMW 740i and a 2017 740i, despite the two cars sharing hardly any similar parts. This is mainly what I'm carping about, its like their designers aren't even trying with the new models.

I will also give Toyota some credit with the new Camry design, they took a risk and IMO it works. Personally I think it looks great. I also like how they didn't turn it into a Mercedes CLS(beautiful cars but a bit impractical), make the roof line so swooping that you had no head room and knocked your head every time you get in the rear seat.

peteharvey

If I'm not wong, both GS and Jaguar were styled by Giogetto Giugiaro of Italdesign - hence the similarities in styling.

Aron9000

Did not know that but it makes sense now. Still kind of silly how two cars from opposite ends of the earth, from brands with completely different ethos and heritage could make a car that looks almost exactly the same. That's my point I guess, for the most part in mainstream automotive design, nobody wants to be an individual, its copy the next guy, don't break the mold. Maybe things are changing a bit, Honda has introduced some polarizing design with the new Civic and Accord(I think they're ugly, but at least I have an opinion, unlike that bland BRZ/Scion/Toyota 86 posted earlier)

mmarshall

It's also getting harder, simply by sheer mathematical chance, to introduce any truly new or individual designs. So many designs have been introduced, over the years, that, no matter what you do, chances are that you are going to be copying somebody else, at some time.

peteharvey

Very true Mike.

dicer

And no one can see that butt ugly side profile of all the stinking circle roofs. Gosh the VW bug has a better looking roof. The Prius started those roofs.
Here is how to design a roof.
https://www.google.com/search?q=phot...=1506752338513
https://www.google.com/search?biw=1280&bih=855&tbm=isch&sa=1&q=photo+of+camaro+car&oq=photo+of+camaro&gs_l=psy-ab.1.1.0l2.42081.45428.0.49378.10.8.2.0.0.0.211.608.7j0j1.8.0.dummy_maps_web_fallback...0...1.1.64.psy-ab..0.10.642...0i10i24k1.0.MLjge5staBc
And the best roof of all.
https://www.google.com/search?biw=1280&bih=855&tbm=isch&sa=1&q=photo+of+sls+gullwing&oq=photo+of+sls+gullwing&gs_l=psy-ab.12...13466.15781.0.18094.9.9.0.0.0.0.117.545.8j1.9.0.dummy_maps_web_fallback...0...1.1.64.psy-ab..0.0.0....0.4dtSqx2rmcg

No blister roofs on the above cars and some wow styling, makes all the rest of the cars on the road look like cheap junk.

KahnBB6

iTrader: (5)

Aron, you can't say the FR-S/BRZ/GT86 isn't good looking when you compare it to a 1999-2005 Celica Or a current series VW Golf GTI or the ugly as hell Scion TC and really ugly as hell Scion xD. It's not the most beautiful car I have ever seen but it's a pretty beautiful one for an inexpensive 2+2 two door small sportscar. When I think of a very ugly two door sports coupe design I recall both generations of the Ford Probe.

I can't agree about the current Toyota Camry. It's trying far too hard and doesn't convince me it's any different than its predecessors. I respect the 1992-1996 Camry design a lot more than the current one which is *trying* to convince me it's a Toyota Mark X. But it isn't a Mark X, even with the stolen "X" design of the front bumper. It's very close in design but I know that's not what I'd be getting if I bought one.

The mid-late-90's and early 2000's GS/Aristo design is one of the best and most original I've ever seen Lexus try and it still holds up today. ^^ I was not aware that Giogetto Giugiaro penned that shape. Explains quite a lot. Goes without saying the 90's SC also from Calty. And the LS from 1989-2000. And the MKIV Supra.

That Maserati Ghibli pictured above, however derivative, does look good. It's a shame it's such junk even with the brand name and a loud V8. Fittingly the Lexus GS it took some inspiration from outlasts it (and in Aristo V300 trim outperforms it).

The new Civic and Accord don't do much of anything for me. I might like the new Civic 5-door hatch design if it were down to a 1990's size but it's as big as an early 2000's Accord was. They do offer manual transmissions across the range and they've embraced turbochargers so I will give them that for earning credibility for the looks their cars currently have. Honda's current designs look too busy to me. Their Acura division on the other hand... every single model except the NSX needs to go into the wastebin. They don't have a single clue what they want their vehicle model identities to be. Worse, they have forgotten what is beautiful and what looks like the sign of great craftsmanship and vision.

The new BMW 8-Series concept is very nice looking since it embraces the big RWD GT ethos... but it's still missing some big things when it's compared to the timeless design of its 1990-1999 predecessor. And that thing was just designed by a fellow who says he used to love the old 8-Series as a kid (convenient marketing ploy or honesty on his part? Who knows...). There is no question however that the Lexus LC500 blows that design away handily. The LC500's looks will age far better than the new BMW 8 Series that will undoubtedly compete with it.

When people still drove very late 90's Ford Tauruses I would get annoyed because I felt I was seeing copies of the 3rd gen RX-7 FD3S tail lights. Ford owned Mazda at that time so it must not have been a coincidence.

It is not easy now to make a truly original design that doesn't reference bits of some other design. That doesn't mean the right combination and blending can't still make for a beautiful car. And it shouldn't stop a company from allowing a classic iconic design of theirs to mostly retain its identity with subtle evolution.

I'm not against a radical approach if it really works for a car. I also feel that whatever that car's design is trying to communicate to me by saying "this is what I am and this is what I want you to know my personality is" also has to be backed up by what it actually is and what it actually does. The more a car's design lies in regards to the kind of car it actually is (which you can only know when you drive it or see it demonstrated not in a car commercial) the harder it is to accept what that car is trying to say to you about its identity through its design.

Now aside, this is fun when a seemingly unassuming car that tells you (based on its design) that it's reserved, sensible and boring when it's actually an insane rocket ship with a Dr. Hyde personality and a Dr. Jekyll exterior. But 95% of the time that isn't how vehicles are marketed and rarely are such cars sales successes. Those are ones that show up unpredictably and are only on sale for a short few model years before they are pulled from production. Bless whatever product planners got such oddities past the bean counters though.

^^ Actually in today's new car market I don't see that sort of factory offering any longer. But on the rare occasion something like that shows up it makes for an interesting poke at the perception of what a vehicle's design says about that it actually is. What happens with great frequency is the exact opposite: a vehicle design that tells you it is far more than it actually is in reality. Amazingly, that is the formula that sells the most units.

bitkahuna

iTrader: (20)

thought that was just the first one?

peteharvey

Many years ago, didn't Toyota say that they finally gave the Italians permission to reveal that the Italians had been secretly styling Toyotas for over 20 years?
Hence the Italians revealed just that.